Thoughts on Dunbar?
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Anonymous
Not to take this thread off topic, but NO. We do not need G&T tracking in elementary. these are little kids still--they don't need to be divided and segregated. If you are really worried about your kid's needs being met, you might argue for lower rations or more aids in classrooms, but not tracking. As kids get older and schools get larger, there is room for kids to go into classes that meet their level more (e.g., are you ready for Algebra in 7th or 8th or whatever), but that is really not necessary in elementary. We are a family with means, and would prefer to keep segregation out of our nice EOTP Title 1 school. |
Anonymous
I was in G and T and it started in 3rd grade. This is not little kids, 3rd is when the achievement gap really widens and a teacher cannot effectively teach when kids are 3-4 levels apart. Also it’s not fixed. Kids can move into G and T. If you tracked, those kids that can’t read yet could all get more targeted support in the classroom with more aides, etc.. Tracking is not what causes segregation. It’s not supporting the kids more who need it and socially promoting everyone every year. The kids who get the shortest end of the stick when you don’t track is the low income smart kid. My family was poor and I was on FARMS. I was tracked and did well. Things would have been different if I was not because my family did not know much about education and could not support at all at home. There are many school districts who have successful tracking programs with a large portion of low SES kids. So no, if done right it actually helps low SES kids the most. |
Anonymous
Hate to break it to you but without tracking most kids in your title 1 school won’t be doing Algebra in 7th or 8th grade. It’s too late. By then, they are way behind and don’t have any good numerical foundation. That’s a fact. |
Anonymous
I agree with you that tracking isn't needed in elementary - especially not in early elementary. However, your Title I school might not be as track-less as you think. I've seen schools that don't have formal tracking still group lower performing or special ed students with certain teachers. Sometimes it's because those teachers are better at supporting kids but sometimes it's because those teachers are less senior/favored. Also, sometimes there aren't enough special ed inclusion co-teachers to support classrooms, so students get grouped to concentrate teachers in a particular classroom. My point is - tracking can start early whether you are aware of it or not. |
Anonymous
My niece was in the DCPS G&T program in the 90s and was tracked from about 2nd grade (I think), she clearly remembers her cohort in ES and MS. She went onto Banneker and is very successful. She credits accessibility to a G&T program for much of her academic success. |
Anonymous
Lol. That’s because you are “of means.” Why not ask the low income striver parents of bright kids what THEY want? Or do you just want them at your “nice Title 1 school” for the atmospherics and opportunity to show your noblesse oblgige? I’ll tell you what those parents are doing: sending their kids to charters. |
Anonymous
She does not gaf because she is “of means” and will ensure her child attends a functioning middle school prepped for Algebra. |
Anonymous
My experience is different from yours but my conclusion is very similar -- private and charter are often better for black students. I'm not questioning your perspective, just giving an alternate view from my own experience. For me, there wasn't a "pull-down" from the community; there was an attempted "push-down" from the system. I attended a mid-performing HS and was only one of two blacks in honors classes for all four years. We were assigned to the honors track from 9th grade and when I arrived at the school (from one of the predominantly white middle feeders), the administration re-assigned me to a lower track. My parents fought it, I was reassigned back to honors and graduated top of my class. I've always suspected there were other black students who could have benefited from the honors classes but they didn't get to choose. The school system did that for us. That was some time ago but things aren't so different now. Just look at the middle school offerings on one side of town vs another. Which middle school students are getting access to Algebra, Biology, etc? If those courses aren't in the neighborhood middle school, are students being prepared for (or even assigned to) honors/AP courses once they reach high school? |
Anonymous
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Here is an easy solution. Test all the kids in title 1 schools in 1st grade and those who do well, track them into a separate classroom or school.
I agree with the poster who says that there is a culture in low income black schools where the nerds or smart kids are looked down upon and made fun of. Or they are bullied. It’s not cool to be smart. Our black receptionist at my last job lived in ward 7 with a smart daughter. The stories she would tell me of the kids bullying her daughter, because she was smart. She taught her daughter to be tough and fight back with words. She ended up at School Without Walls, and her mom changed offices so she could take her daughter to school although it meant a much tougher commute. These are the kids who get lost in the low achieving, low expectations, and not cool to be smart culture in title 1 schools. Her mom saw the potential in her daughter and saw the opportunities in that potential. She was lucky. Some families don’t see that, and some smart kids are not so lucky. They get lost in low achieving system and never rise up to the potential that they have. |
Anonymous
PP here and I agree with you. I wonder if we are all talking past each other and conflating G&T tracking with in-class ability grouping. To be clear, in-class ability grouping is (in my view) fine, and helps make sure kids receive appropriate, tailored instruction. My issue is with separate G&T programs or classes that pull kids apart. You could argue that a kid who is not in G&T could be added to that program in a later year, and of course this does happen. But more frequently, the gap widens. Sure, some of this is because some of the kids with natural aptitude were pulled out. But also now you've got a bright kid with some learning differences in a class with a higher proportion of kids who are dealing with trauma and may be acting out, and they don't get to learn from (and compete with) the kids in the G&T program. And frequently, you'll have kids who are advanced in some ways and behind in others, so in-class differentiation, when done properly, is better able to address student needs. Test-in programs are notorious for baking the prejudices of the testmaker and the teachers into selection. As I said in my first post, there is a case to be made for differentiation, but the evidence I've seen doesn't suggest there is a net benefit to offering "honors" before middle school. And to the other posters, I speak only for myself. Other parents can have different opinions. But that illustrates my point. By having us all at the same school, and in the same class, we get to hear each other's perspectives and learn from each other. No one is better than anyone else, no one is made to feel less than anyone else. To me, having kids in a diverse (racially, economically, academically, etc.) class is about that, not about "atmospherics." |
Anonymous
| Most comments on this site seem to be complaining about the lack of differentiation in middle school and high school, as opposed to elementary school. It seems really good teachers at DC elementary schools do know how to provide some form of differentiation for students without creating separate classes. There is much more agreement about the need to provide different levels of rigor beginning in middle school in subjects other than math and perhaps foreign language. If parents largely agree on this idea that it’s too little and too late to wait for high school AP classes, what can be done increase middle school rigor without fear of segregation? The answer is probably to lake sure that the playing field is equalized more in elementary school but then what efforts are being taken there? |
Anonymous
If you think there is actual group differentiation in all the title 1 schools in the city, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Teachers don’t have the support. They cannot differentiate when kids are 3-4 levels apart. They need to get the overwhelming majority of kids who are below grade level as close to grade level as possible. That’s the end game for leadership and DCPS. The handful of kids who are at and above grade level will be on screens or get worksheets. That’s the BS “differentiation” that happens and not actual learning from the teacher. Middle class families will supplement or support at home in the early grades and then leave by 3rd when they see how vast the achievement gap is and their kid’s needs are not being met. The low SES kids who had potential, but did not have outside support, will be low achievers like everyone else. Elementary is where you start the building blocks that will be the foundation for higher level academics and rigor in middle school. Without reaching this, you will struggle and as each year goes by, be further behind where it’s impossible to catch up. This is clearly evident in math where less than 5% of the kids in poorly performing schools are above grade level. |
Anonymous
There’s no real differentiation happening. It’s all about the bottom and a race to the bottom. It’s bringing the top down to narrow the achievement gap. Your idealistic thinking is not reality. Your argument against tracking supports the same thing - race to the bottom by not meeting the needs of the top BTW your title 1 school is not racially, economically, or academically diverse. In fact it very homogenous in all 3 categories past ECE. |
Anonymous
It’s quite obvious you have no idea what is going on in the classroom. Get back to us when your kid is past K. |
Anonymous
No kidding. they need to turn half the school into a true test in academy for high achieving students from across the student. Why would any parent choose to send their kid there otherwise |