My high stat kid’s experience with admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I have always operated with the understanding that optional pretty much means required.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that applications from white/Asian UMC kids in the DMV without a test score can raise a red flag (i.e., why wouldn't they submit a score unless it was weak)? And a 32 ACT may not be stellar, but I think it's still the 97th percentile so why not submit to clear up any doubts?

what is the basis for that understanding? please don't say DCUM.

Logic

that's a shorthand way of saying "pulled it out of my ass"

Stanford's common data set for 2021-22 shows that for first year students who enrolled in 2021, 12.6% submitted SAT scores and 8.7% submitted ACT scores. Are you saying that the 80% that did not are all non-white/Asian UMC kids?

Last year, many kids didn't have a choice to submit or not. They never got the chance to take the SAT or ACT at all.

kids how enrolled spring of 2021 were seniors in 2020-21. Pandemic hit spring of their junior year. You're telling me that 80% of these highly motivated students didn't take a single SAT/ACT prior to March of their junior year? SAT/ACT were available in many parts of the country by fall of 2020.

And enrolled students in 2021 included a large cohort who deferred admission from the prior year, so this may include their stats, which were skew the test/no test results even more.

the bottom line is that it certainly didn't hurt people then, and you have no actual data/evidence to support the claim that only certain people have to submit test scores.

Test Optional was prevalent then and still is.

Wake up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Major is a big factor in acceptance that I think a lot of people forget. Judging by my kids friends, CS was way tougher than engineering or any other major for admissions both for boys and girls. My advice for juniors, is to think carefully about applying to CS.

Did a lot of dithering about retaking the SAT, but only missed one question on the math section. She figured that the schools would know that and not be overly focused on the score. Chasing a few more points when it’s already in the 99% percentile didn’t seem like a valuable way to spend time.

Hard to really know what was decisive for the schools either way. I’m guessing essays stood out. They were authentically her and quite qood (imo). I’m in a quant field and being able to write clearly is a highly in demand skill. Luck is of course also a huge factor.

We were honestly shocked by the Ivy acceptance. With so many spots going to ED kids, RD seemed like a very long shot. We also didn’t get any professional help on the applications, so it was just my kid’s work with some advice from me and DH.

Anyway, for all the talk about high stat kids being dime a dozen, at least for my kid, it worked out. I’m guessing luck, choice of major, and essays were all significant. Maybe also recommendations. Despite being virtual, I think my kid managed to really stand out to her junior year teachers that wrote her recs. I also wonder about the counselor letter. We got a form to fill out for it and I guessed that the counselor might just lift what I wrote for their letter, so I was thoughtful about it. I made it really good and made sure that what I wrote was very personal and showed an aspect of my kid that would be hard to bring out elsewhere in the app.

It was the engineering. Without that, she wouldn’t have gotten in, at least not for STEM. Would have been rejections if had listed bio.
Upcoming female applicants -pick engineering if you can easily switch to preferred majors.

+100 glad you think she’s special but THIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always operated with the understanding that optional pretty much means required.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that applications from white/Asian UMC kids in the DMV without a test score can raise a red flag (i.e., why wouldn't they submit a score unless it was weak)? And a 32 ACT may not be stellar, but I think it's still the 97th percentile so why not submit to clear up any doubts?

what is the basis for that understanding? please don't say DCUM.

Logic

that's a shorthand way of saying "pulled it out of my ass"

Stanford's common data set for 2021-22 shows that for first year students who enrolled in 2021, 12.6% submitted SAT scores and 8.7% submitted ACT scores. Are you saying that the 80% that did not are all non-white/Asian UMC kids?

Last year, many kids didn't have a choice to submit or not. They never got the chance to take the SAT or ACT at all.

kids how enrolled spring of 2021 were seniors in 2020-21. Pandemic hit spring of their junior year. You're telling me that 80% of these highly motivated students didn't take a single SAT/ACT prior to March of their junior year? SAT/ACT were available in many parts of the country by fall of 2020.

And enrolled students in 2021 included a large cohort who deferred admission from the prior year, so this may include their stats, which were skew the test/no test results even more.

the bottom line is that it certainly didn't hurt people then, and you have no actual data/evidence to support the claim that only certain people have to submit test scores.

Test Optional was prevalent then and still is.

From what I recall, when my child applied a few years back (pre-covid), several schools that I can think of were already test optional. I think Middlebury, Wake Forest and UChicago were.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DS has much higher SAT but otherwise similar, rejected by ivies, maybe being an asian played a factor. So congratulations to you! Life isn’t always fair but this is the work we live in.

Same here. My DS stats were much higher with more APs. 3 sports. 2 languages . Rejected to all Ivy schools. ( Mixed asian)

my Asian kid had lower stats and got into multiple Ivies. So what?

You are special and hit the jackpot. So don’t rub it in to the rest of us, because I can guarantee you that those who didn’t get the offer are not any less intelligent than your Asian kid.

never said that, but the idea that being Asian is somehow disqualifying is pernicious.

Can you hear your attitude? You fit right in in that category! You must be a unpleasant person in real life with no real friends.

I'm unpleasant because I think Asian applicants are getting into Ivy League schools (a verifiable fact) and that it's not a simple "look at how great my stats are" proposition? You want to buy the line fed to you by some angry old white men, go ahead. I'll decline, thank you.

. There’s no reason to be ugly about it. I’m sure your kid deserves his/her spot. Nobody is saying Asians aren’t getting in, they are simply pointing out that your kids stats were lower than theirs and they were mixed or Asian as well. Congratulations and Stay Humble lady!

I think SAT or ACT scores are useful for colleges in making admission decisions. MIT’s recent decision to go back to requiring tests is pretty compelling to me. However, I have pretty strong suspicions that it’s not that sharp of a tool. If you get a 1540 or a 1580 it probably makes no difference in predicting your college outcomes. Even more so, a 1580 resulting from multiple sittings and super scoring is probably even less useful in predicting college success than a single sitting 1540. My guess is that colleges want to see the standardized test score supports a high GPA and high AP scores. My opinion obviously is only that, but taking the SAT a bunch of times chasing a small improvement in score is a waste of time and squanders energy that can be better spent elsewhere.

Agreed

+ another

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW: my kid, whose GPA was strong from a rigorous private but who applied test optional everywhere due to non-spectacular ACT scores (32), applied to 14 schools-- accepted at Vermont, Dickinson, Lafayette, Denison, Emory and Georgetown; rejected at Duke, BC, Carnegie Mellon, and Vassar, and WL at UVa, VT, W&M, and Yale.

None of this makes any particular sense to me. DC had strong recs and essays, medium extra currics and sport, white, no hooks.

To me all this just illustrates how random all this is. DC leaning towards Georgetown and is happy, but still baffled about those WL schools! (Was expecting acceptance at at least W&M and VT, and rejection at Yale. Go figure).

Are you in VA? This makes absolutely no sense if you are.

I wonder if this is yield protection on the part of the public schools? I'm thinking they assume your child wouldn't go if admitted and would instead go to a private college/university if your child was admitted to one of those.

[Anonymous]

My VA VERY high stat kid was also waitlisted from VT- a very safe safety per the data. I reached out to admissions who said that they find students with my child's profile do not enroll if offered admission and that they only take such high stat kids in state if they ED. So there you have it- you can either commit to VT before you get your chance with any tier 1 schools or you are not getting in if you are high stat. However, all your medium stat kids friends will be accepted and then will make comments about how you were rejected to their school. So that is awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW: my kid, whose GPA was strong from a rigorous private but who applied test optional everywhere due to non-spectacular ACT scores (32), applied to 14 schools-- accepted at Vermont, Dickinson, Lafayette, Denison, Emory and Georgetown; rejected at Duke, BC, Carnegie Mellon, and Vassar, and WL at UVa, VT, W&M, and Yale.

None of this makes any particular sense to me. DC had strong recs and essays, medium extra currics and sport, white, no hooks.

To me all this just illustrates how random all this is. DC leaning towards Georgetown and is happy, but still baffled about those WL schools! (Was expecting acceptance at at least W&M and VT, and rejection at Yale. Go figure).

Your kid got very lucky at Georgetown and Emory. Congratulations!

Very lucky. TO for DC area private school kid obviously tanked it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My VA VERY high stat kid was also waitlisted from VT- a very safe safety per the data. I reached out to admissions who said that they find students with my child's profile do not enroll if offered admission and that they only take such high stat kids in state if they ED. So there you have it- you can either commit to VT before you get your chance with any tier 1 schools or you are not getting in if you are high stat. However, all your medium stat kids friends will be accepted and then will make comments about how you were rejected to their school. So that is awesome.

This is true for UVA too. Our very high stats DC didn’t apply ED, classmates with lower stats did and were admitted. DC applied ED and was waitlisted. Luckily DC got a ton of merit aid at other reaches but if UVA is your #1 choice ED of you want a chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1. The JFC poster is simply out of touch with the new normal.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My VA VERY high stat kid was also waitlisted from VT- a very safe safety per the data. I reached out to admissions who said that they find students with my child's profile do not enroll if offered admission and that they only take such high stat kids in state if they ED. So there you have it- you can either commit to VT before you get your chance with any tier 1 schools or you are not getting in if you are high stat. However, all your medium stat kids friends will be accepted and then will make comments about how you were rejected to their school. So that is awesome.

This is true for UVA too. Our very high stats DC didn’t apply ED, classmates with lower stats did and were admitted. DC applied ED and was waitlisted. Luckily DC got a ton of merit aid at other reaches but if UVA is your #1 choice ED of you want a chance.

I could be wrong but I don’t think UVA practices yield protection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My VA VERY high stat kid was also waitlisted from VT- a very safe safety per the data. I reached out to admissions who said that they find students with my child's profile do not enroll if offered admission and that they only take such high stat kids in state if they ED. So there you have it- you can either commit to VT before you get your chance with any tier 1 schools or you are not getting in if you are high stat. However, all your medium stat kids friends will be accepted and then will make comments about how you were rejected to their school. So that is awesome.

Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always operated with the understanding that optional pretty much means required.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that applications from white/Asian UMC kids in the DMV without a test score can raise a red flag (i.e., why wouldn't they submit a score unless it was weak)? And a 32 ACT may not be stellar, but I think it's still the 97th percentile so why not submit to clear up any doubts?

what is the basis for that understanding? please don't say DCUM.

Logic

that's a shorthand way of saying "pulled it out of my ass"

Stanford's common data set for 2021-22 shows that for first year students who enrolled in 2021, 12.6% submitted SAT scores and 8.7% submitted ACT scores. Are you saying that the 80% that did not are all non-white/Asian UMC kids?

This is false. More than 20 percent submitted to Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My VA VERY high stat kid was also waitlisted from VT- a very safe safety per the data. I reached out to admissions who said that they find students with my child's profile do not enroll if offered admission and that they only take such high stat kids in state if they ED. So there you have it- you can either commit to VT before you get your chance with any tier 1 schools or you are not getting in if you are high stat. However, all your medium stat kids friends will be accepted and then will make comments about how you were rejected to their school. So that is awesome.

Interesting.

My high stats kid who was a NMSF was accepted at VT a few years back, but wasn't accepted to the honors college, so went somewhere else that showed him more love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My VA VERY high stat kid was also waitlisted from VT- a very safe safety per the data. I reached out to admissions who said that they find students with my child's profile do not enroll if offered admission and that they only take such high stat kids in state if they ED. So there you have it- you can either commit to VT before you get your chance with any tier 1 schools or you are not getting in if you are high stat. However, all your medium stat kids friends will be accepted and then will make comments about how you were rejected to their school. So that is awesome.

This is true for UVA too. Our very high stats DC didn’t apply ED, classmates with lower stats did and were admitted. DC applied ED and was waitlisted. Luckily DC got a ton of merit aid at other reaches but if UVA is your #1 choice ED of you want a chance.

I could be wrong but I don’t think UVA practices yield protection

DC was accepted to both UVA and VA Tech EA (4.6w FCPS, 1580 single sitting, 12 AP exams all 5s, NMF). Declined both acceptances this week, so hopefully someone from the waitlist can get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always operated with the understanding that optional pretty much means required.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that applications from white/Asian UMC kids in the DMV without a test score can raise a red flag (i.e., why wouldn't they submit a score unless it was weak)? And a 32 ACT may not be stellar, but I think it's still the 97th percentile so why not submit to clear up any doubts?

what is the basis for that understanding? please don't say DCUM.

Logic

that's a shorthand way of saying "pulled it out of my ass"

Stanford's common data set for 2021-22 shows that for first year students who enrolled in 2021, 12.6% submitted SAT scores and 8.7% submitted ACT scores. Are you saying that the 80% that did not are all non-white/Asian UMC kids?

This is false. More than 20 percent submitted to Stanford.

Look up the CDS yourself. It’s on the Stanford website.