My high stat kid’s experience with admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always operated with the understanding that optional pretty much means required.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that applications from white/Asian UMC kids in the DMV without a test score can raise a red flag (i.e., why wouldn't they submit a score unless it was weak)? And a 32 ACT may not be stellar, but I think it's still the 97th percentile so why not submit to clear up any doubts?

what is the basis for that understanding? please don't say DCUM.

Logic

that's a shorthand way of saying "pulled it out of my ass"

Stanford's common data set for 2021-22 shows that for first year students who enrolled in 2021, 12.6% submitted SAT scores and 8.7% submitted ACT scores. Are you saying that the 80% that did not are all non-white/Asian UMC kids?

Last year, many kids didn't have a choice to submit or not. They never got the chance to take the SAT or ACT at all.

kids how enrolled spring of 2021 were seniors in 2020-21. Pandemic hit spring of their junior year. You're telling me that 80% of these highly motivated students didn't take a single SAT/ACT prior to March of their junior year? SAT/ACT were available in many parts of the country by fall of 2020.

And enrolled students in 2021 included a large cohort who deferred admission from the prior year, so this may include their stats, which were skew the test/no test results even more.

the bottom line is that it certainly didn't hurt people then, and you have no actual data/evidence to support the claim that only certain people have to submit test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has much higher SAT but otherwise similar, rejected by ivies, maybe being an asian played a factor. So congratulations to you! Life isn’t always fair but this is the work we live in.

Same here. My DS stats were much higher with more APs. 3 sports. 2 languages . Rejected to all Ivy schools. ( Mixed asian)

my Asian kid had lower stats and got into multiple Ivies. So what?

You are special and hit the jackpot. So don’t rub it in to the rest of us, because I can guarantee you that those who didn’t get the offer are not any less intelligent than your Asian kid.

never said that, but the idea that being Asian is somehow disqualifying is pernicious.

Can you hear your attitude? You fit right in in that category! You must be a unpleasant person in real life with no real friends.

I'm unpleasant because I think Asian applicants are getting into Ivy League schools (a verifiable fact) and that it's not a simple "look at how great my stats are" proposition? You want to buy the line fed to you by some angry old white men, go ahead. I'll decline, thank you.

[Anonymous]

fwiw (which isn't much) my white male kid got rejected from all the elite schools he applied to (4 Ivy League and 4 equivalent). He has 4.8w gpa, 15 APs, all with 5s except those from sophomore year, great internship, very advanced classes. 1580 SAT, no paid prep for anything except a short college essay writing class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW: my kid, whose GPA was strong from a rigorous private but who applied test optional everywhere due to non-spectacular ACT scores (32), applied to 14 schools-- accepted at Vermont, Dickinson, Lafayette, Denison, Emory and Georgetown; rejected at Duke, BC, Carnegie Mellon, and Vassar, and WL at UVa, VT, W&M, and Yale.

None of this makes any particular sense to me. DC had strong recs and essays, medium extra currics and sport, white, no hooks.

To me all this just illustrates how random all this is. DC leaning towards Georgetown and is happy, but still baffled about those WL schools! (Was expecting acceptance at at least W&M and VT, and rejection at Yale. Go figure).

Are you in VA? This makes absolutely no sense if you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always operated with the understanding that optional pretty much means required.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that applications from white/Asian UMC kids in the DMV without a test score can raise a red flag (i.e., why wouldn't they submit a score unless it was weak)? And a 32 ACT may not be stellar, but I think it's still the 97th percentile so why not submit to clear up any doubts?

what is the basis for that understanding? please don't say DCUM.

Logic

that's a shorthand way of saying "pulled it out of my ass"

Stanford's common data set for 2021-22 shows that for first year students who enrolled in 2021, 12.6% submitted SAT scores and 8.7% submitted ACT scores. Are you saying that the 80% that did not are all non-white/Asian UMC kids?

Standford is a sports school. It's not MIT. Unlike Standford, MIT can't allow TO for long without affecting the quality of its program.

MIT also recruits sports. As a result, my DC turned down the offer and went to an ivy instead. MY DC lost respect for MIT after seeing her less prepared peer across DMV got in with sports. SO PEOPLE, SPORTS IS YOUR KEY!

Ivies also recruit for sports. Heavily.

Athletes also have to be qualified. My DD reached out to MIT to watch her play and coach wrote back that while she wasn't in his pool of top recruits, she should check back because not all will have the test scores to qualify. SO PEOPLE, FOR SOME SCHOOLS, YOU HAVE TO BE BOTH SMART AND EXCEL AT YOUR SPORT!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:fwiw (which isn't much) my white male kid got rejected from all the elite schools he applied to (4 Ivy League and 4 equivalent). He has 4.8w gpa, 15 APs, all with 5s except those from sophomore year, great internship, very advanced classes. 1580 SAT, no paid prep for anything except a short college essay writing class.

I worry that this will be my 2023 kid next year. DCPS kid....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:fwiw (which isn't much) my white male kid got rejected from all the elite schools he applied to (4 Ivy League and 4 equivalent). He has 4.8w gpa, 15 APs, all with 5s except those from sophomore year, great internship, very advanced classes. 1580 SAT, no paid prep for anything except a short college essay writing class.

I worry that this will be my 2023 kid next year. DCPS kid....

It is really unwise to "worry" that you won't get into 8 insanely competitive colleges. You do your best but it is wasted anxiety to fret about getting an acceptance. It is just too difficult and unpredictable. Those are admirable goals but you must understand the odds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW: my kid, whose GPA was strong from a rigorous private but who applied test optional everywhere due to non-spectacular ACT scores (32), applied to 14 schools-- accepted at Vermont, Dickinson, Lafayette, Denison, Emory and Georgetown; rejected at Duke, BC, Carnegie Mellon, and Vassar, and WL at UVa, VT, W&M, and Yale.

None of this makes any particular sense to me. DC had strong recs and essays, medium extra currics and sport, white, no hooks.

To me all this just illustrates how random all this is. DC leaning towards Georgetown and is happy, but still baffled about those WL schools! (Was expecting acceptance at at least W&M and VT, and rejection at Yale. Go figure).

Are you in VA? This makes absolutely no sense if you are.

Yep, we are in VA. As I said. It makes no particular sense. That is kind of my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always operated with the understanding that optional pretty much means required.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that applications from white/Asian UMC kids in the DMV without a test score can raise a red flag (i.e., why wouldn't they submit a score unless it was weak)? And a 32 ACT may not be stellar, but I think it's still the 97th percentile so why not submit to clear up any doubts?

what is the basis for that understanding? please don't say DCUM.

Logic

that's a shorthand way of saying "pulled it out of my ass"

Stanford's common data set for 2021-22 shows that for first year students who enrolled in 2021, 12.6% submitted SAT scores and 8.7% submitted ACT scores. Are you saying that the 80% that did not are all non-white/Asian UMC kids?

Standford is a sports school. It's not MIT. Unlike Standford, MIT can't allow TO for long without affecting the quality of its program.

MIT also recruits sports. As a result, my DC turned down the offer and went to an ivy instead. MY DC lost respect for MIT after seeing her less prepared peer across DMV got in with sports. SO PEOPLE, SPORTS IS YOUR KEY!

Ivies also recruit for sports. Heavily.

Athletes also have to be qualified. My DD reached out to MIT to watch her play and coach wrote back that while she wasn't in his pool of top recruits, she should check back because not all will have the test scores to qualify. SO PEOPLE, FOR SOME SCHOOLS, YOU HAVE TO BE BOTH SMART AND EXCEL AT YOUR SPORT!

athletes have to minimally qualified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:fwiw (which isn't much) my white male kid got rejected from all the elite schools he applied to (4 Ivy League and 4 equivalent). He has 4.8w gpa, 15 APs, all with 5s except those from sophomore year, great internship, very advanced classes. 1580 SAT, no paid prep for anything except a short college essay writing class.

I worry that this will be my 2023 kid next year. DCPS kid....

It is really unwise to "worry" that you won't get into 8 insanely competitive colleges. You do your best but it is wasted anxiety to fret about getting an acceptance. It is just too difficult and unpredictable. Those are admirable goals but you must understand the odds.

Thank goodness this poster has you here to tell him/her how to feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:fwiw (which isn't much) my white male kid got rejected from all the elite schools he applied to (4 Ivy League and 4 equivalent). He has 4.8w gpa, 15 APs, all with 5s except those from sophomore year, great internship, very advanced classes. 1580 SAT, no paid prep for anything except a short college essay writing class.

I worry that this will be my 2023 kid next year. DCPS kid....

It is really unwise to "worry" that you won't get into 8 insanely competitive colleges. You do your best but it is wasted anxiety to fret about getting an acceptance. It is just too difficult and unpredictable. Those are admirable goals but you must understand the odds.

Thank goodness this poster has you here to tell him/her how to feel.

Good point. ratchet up the worry level. It won't do a thing to get you into Harvard but you are correct that you feel how you feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:fwiw (which isn't much) my white male kid got rejected from all the elite schools he applied to (4 Ivy League and 4 equivalent). He has 4.8w gpa, 15 APs, all with 5s except those from sophomore year, great internship, very advanced classes. 1580 SAT, no paid prep for anything except a short college essay writing class.

I worry that this will be my 2023 kid next year. DCPS kid....

It is really unwise to "worry" that you won't get into 8 insanely competitive colleges. You do your best but it is wasted anxiety to fret about getting an acceptance. It is just too difficult and unpredictable. Those are admirable goals but you must understand the odds.

And understanding the odds means having a list of safety and target schools that your kid really likes! Can't just apply to reach schools and expect success, because it's a lottery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Major is a big factor in acceptance that I think a lot of people forget. Judging by my kids friends, CS was way tougher than engineering or any other major for admissions both for boys and girls. My advice for juniors, is to think carefully about applying to CS.

Did a lot of dithering about retaking the SAT, but only missed one question on the math section. She figured that the schools would know that and not be overly focused on the score. Chasing a few more points when it’s already in the 99% percentile didn’t seem like a valuable way to spend time.

Hard to really know what was decisive for the schools either way. I’m guessing essays stood out. They were authentically her and quite qood (imo). I’m in a quant field and being able to write clearly is a highly in demand skill. Luck is of course also a huge factor.

We were honestly shocked by the Ivy acceptance. With so many spots going to ED kids, RD seemed like a very long shot. We also didn’t get any professional help on the applications, so it was just my kid’s work with some advice from me and DH.

Anyway, for all the talk about high stat kids being dime a dozen, at least for my kid, it worked out. I’m guessing luck, choice of major, and essays were all significant. Maybe also recommendations. Despite being virtual, I think my kid managed to really stand out to her junior year teachers that wrote her recs. I also wonder about the counselor letter. We got a form to fill out for it and I guessed that the counselor might just lift what I wrote for their letter, so I was thoughtful about it. I made it really good and made sure that what I wrote was very personal and showed an aspect of my kid that would be hard to bring out elsewhere in the app.

It was the engineering. Without that, she wouldn’t have gotten in, at least not for STEM. Would have been rejections if had listed bio.
Upcoming female applicants -pick engineering if you can easily switch to preferred majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always operated with the understanding that optional pretty much means required.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that applications from white/Asian UMC kids in the DMV without a test score can raise a red flag (i.e., why wouldn't they submit a score unless it was weak)? And a 32 ACT may not be stellar, but I think it's still the 97th percentile so why not submit to clear up any doubts?

what is the basis for that understanding? please don't say DCUM.

Logic

that's a shorthand way of saying "pulled it out of my ass"

Stanford's common data set for 2021-22 shows that for first year students who enrolled in 2021, 12.6% submitted SAT scores and 8.7% submitted ACT scores. Are you saying that the 80% that did not are all non-white/Asian UMC kids?

Standford is a sports school. It's not MIT. Unlike Standford, MIT can't allow TO for long without affecting the quality of its program.

MIT also recruits sports. As a result, my DC turned down the offer and went to an ivy instead. MY DC lost respect for MIT after seeing her less prepared peer across DMV got in with sports. SO PEOPLE, SPORTS IS YOUR KEY!

Ivies also recruit for sports. Heavily.

Athletes also have to be qualified. My DD reached out to MIT to watch her play and coach wrote back that while she wasn't in his pool of top recruits, she should check back because not all will have the test scores to qualify. SO PEOPLE, FOR SOME SCHOOLS, YOU HAVE TO BE BOTH SMART AND EXCEL AT YOUR SPORT!

athletes have to minimally qualified.

Not true at all. Especially when you are talking about being recruited for a sport at the high level schools this thread is mentioning.
MIT is notorious for showing interest in an athlete but waiting for the kid to get accepted on their own merits before giving them a sport roster spot.
Most T50 DIII schools are the same.
Being a recruited athlete and gaining admission acceptance at a top school are completely separate and different processes.
Once again those who generalize on this board are wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Major is a big factor in acceptance that I think a lot of people forget. Judging by my kids friends, CS was way tougher than engineering or any other major for admissions both for boys and girls. My advice for juniors, is to think carefully about applying to CS.

Did a lot of dithering about retaking the SAT, but only missed one question on the math section. She figured that the schools would know that and not be overly focused on the score. Chasing a few more points when it’s already in the 99% percentile didn’t seem like a valuable way to spend time.

Hard to really know what was decisive for the schools either way. I’m guessing essays stood out. They were authentically her and quite qood (imo). I’m in a quant field and being able to write clearly is a highly in demand skill. Luck is of course also a huge factor.

We were honestly shocked by the Ivy acceptance. With so many spots going to ED kids, RD seemed like a very long shot. We also didn’t get any professional help on the applications, so it was just my kid’s work with some advice from me and DH.

Anyway, for all the talk about high stat kids being dime a dozen, at least for my kid, it worked out. I’m guessing luck, choice of major, and essays were all significant. Maybe also recommendations. Despite being virtual, I think my kid managed to really stand out to her junior year teachers that wrote her recs. I also wonder about the counselor letter. We got a form to fill out for it and I guessed that the counselor might just lift what I wrote for their letter, so I was thoughtful about it. I made it really good and made sure that what I wrote was very personal and showed an aspect of my kid that would be hard to bring out elsewhere in the app.

It was the engineering. Without that, she wouldn’t have gotten in, at least not for STEM. Would have been rejections if had listed bio.
Upcoming female applicants -pick engineering if you can easily switch to preferred majors.

Unless the story told by the application is in support of that major, I am not sure that is good advice. What adcom would not see right through that?