Antiwork movement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I joined this movement, but I call it 'retirement'.

IKR? Nobody has a problem with retirement, early retirement, FIRE, or being so wealthy you don't have to work. But young people living within their means (whatever the source of those means) to avoid a dead-end traditional job is somehow triggering.

I have a traditional 9-5 job and a nice lifestyle. If I could afford my lifestyle without working I'd quit tomorrow. I have several friends who made different lifestyle choices (no house, no kids) and have non traditional income or temporary jobs. They're not in debt or mooching, they just made different choices.

BECAUSE THE “MEANS” ARE THEIR PARENTS MONEY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 37, make over 200K a year, and have worked since I was 16 with the longest break being 2 weeks for my wedding and honeymoon. I've managed teams as large as 18.

I find many of the anti-work points compelling. At a minimum, I think a lot more people should be unionizing.

Same. I shouldn't want this since I'm an elite white collar worker who is treated well, slagged my way to the mid-top and will always be working for a paycheck. I shouldn't want everything else to become more expensive and lessen my own paycheck.

If you've never worked a minimum wage job, you need to listen to these people. I'm a lawyer now but I worked a bunch of minimum wage through high school and college. It's so ironic that you're lectured constantly on dedication and are expected to put up with mistreatment for minimum wage. I once quit a job because the manager scheduled me to work during my AP tests and told me being a cashier was more important than my education.

+1
The number of times, even at white collar jobs, I've had bosses try to get me to work for free (i.e. "everyone works through lunch" or "brendon always stay for a couple hours after, just to finish everything up") is crazy. The number of times I've had those bosses require me to work through holidays, including Christmas, is also crazy. The attitude they have, like they just want to squeeze every drop they can out of you for as least money as possible, is dehumanizing and gross.

You can be a company and also treat people like human beings. You can be a manager and also a decent human being with some compassion that allows people to keep their dignity.

Millennials did this same thing with #MeToo and everyone laughed at the beginning. Now theyre coming for this messed up work culture. And I'm glad. Because it's high time it ends. I work for myself now, but I remember the mistreatment, and it was really awful. Cant imagine how bad it is for those struggling with a family on minimum wage or something

Good post.

+Agree. I am older than this but even as a white collar worker have put up with horrible mistreatment. No one should have to get on a plane with a 104 fever and work a 90 hr week before they land themselves in the hospital. People should not have to take personal financial losses to cancel vacations with their families, or be expected to respond within minutes 24/7, 365 days a year. It's not good for us and it kills us all slowly. And that's white collar work! Lower down the food chain is even more exploitative and you don't make enough to pay for basic needs? We need a change. No one should be working 40 hrs a week and also qualifying for welfare and subsidies just to get by.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I joined this movement, but I call it 'retirement'.

IKR? Nobody has a problem with retirement, early retirement, FIRE, or being so wealthy you don't have to work. But young people living within their means (whatever the source of those means) to avoid a dead-end traditional job is somehow triggering.

I have a traditional 9-5 job and a nice lifestyle. If I could afford my lifestyle without working I'd quit tomorrow. I have several friends who made different lifestyle choices (no house, no kids) and have non traditional income or temporary jobs. They're not in debt or mooching, they just made different choices.

BECAUSE THE “MEANS” ARE THEIR PARENTS MONEY

Hilarious considering how many boomers can only afford to retire/retired early because of inheriting their own parents’ money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do people think of this? People, especially millennials and Gen z, are quitting en masse and basically refusing to work. There are employment shortages all over the country. Workers are striking more than ever before.

What are people's thoughts?

It’s most low paid jobs. Immigration is at an all time low. The US population grew at less than 1%. So yep…not enough people to fill less desirable jobs.

Trump immigration policies, not meaningfully overturned by pro-Labor Biden, explains our labor shortage (at least at the wages on offer). And I’m really confused by our collective refusal to look that in the eye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read this entire thread and am still confused.

Are these people against work in general or against abusive employers? "Antiwork" as a title is as bad as "defund the police" in terms of ambiguity.

If they're against work in general, then I am fine with that, as long as they don't then turn around and expect me (and others who work for a living) to financially support them. Most people work out of necessity, but some are financially independent and can do what they want.

If they're against abusive employers, then I think that they should quit and find other jobs. There is no shortage of "help wanted" signs around me and, I suspect, in most areas of the US. I have quit an abusive job (I was assigned to a new boss who expected me to do things that I was never expected to do when I was hired, such as being available for work during vacation times) for another job, and would encourage others to do the same. In this case, the group should be called "anti-abusive workplaces" or something more specific.

If they actually want working people to subsidize their choice to not work, then they can go screw themselves. I'm not doing that, and I can't imagine that they'll get many supporters of their cause.

Confusing thread.

I'm with you. I don't fully understand the movement, or the thread.

I mean, isn't work part of a social contract that we all have? We do things that need to be done, and we get paid for that. Of course no one should stick with an abusive boss. But I'm not sure what is abusive and what is people being told they have to follow certain policies, or earn x dollars instead of y dollars.

I think the confusing part is that, as in this thread, there are some people advocating for unions, better pay, better working conditions, etc. and then there are also a bunch of childish idiots who just don’t want to work. When the latter take up the “antiwork” mantle and speak on behalf of the former, it’s problematic.

I have seen no one like that speaking for the movement, just people on this thread who have no idea what antiwork is insisting that they exist, that they are lazy entitled millennials, and that they represent the movement [that the speaker doesn't understand]. So now we're talking about what bad guys these imaginary mooches are and appropriate branding instead of workers' rights, just as the sealions intended.

They think people shouldn’t have to work (especially but not exclusively in degrading or inhumane conditions) in order to meet basic needs (food and shelter.) at its core, that’s what the movement is about.

I agree with you, that is the core of the movement. The movement has grown with has gotten a lot of poeple who are more just wanting a fair social contract, meaning they want to be able to afford a real life with their work.

From r/antiwork FAQs:

"Why do you want to end work?
Because the modern day workplace is one where you are expected to work despite your own individual needs or desires. Work puts the needs and desires of managers and corporations above and beyond workers, often to the point of abuse through being overworked and underpaid."

I 100% agree with this. We need to end that type of work. Telling people they should just not work for abusive employers is not really helpful, nor a real solution. There is not readily available work that is non-exploitative. Corporations literally answer to shareholders (profits), and they arguably cannot just be "human" to workers without violating their fiduciary duty to shareholders. Late stage capitalism is terrible.

[Anonymous]

I was taught to always work hard, as if life has no other possibilities. But even as exploitable as me - I literally applaud for people who wants to milk capitalists' money, doing nothing so I don't have to be hyper competitive, being very competitive so I can have role models, no behavior is off limits to m - I find some of the corporate practice to be abusive and toxic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the antiwork movement is for a very specific subset of people who are able to depend on others, usually parents, to provide their basic needs.

I honestly haven’t heard about it other than on Reddit, where it’s clearly mostly college-aged people still living at home.

Privileged people whose parents were smart. My 30 something year old white American coworkers get asked to live with their parents who are usually retired with them all the time. I'm a first generation american and my parents knew diddly squat about saving, investing, and retirement so didn't plan accurately enough for me to mooch off them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Boomers took all the wealth for themselves and basically rammed society down the drain. Everyone else is sick of it, and sick of them. It's a dangerous combo

WTF have you read this forum at all? there is literally NOBODY here that isn't making a decent living. Poor DCUMers with 750K HHI, "poor" people making 200.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with you, that is the core of the movement. The movement has grown with has gotten a lot of poeple who are more just wanting a fair social contract, meaning they want to be able to afford a real life with their work.

From r/antiwork FAQs:

"Why do you want to end work?
Because the modern day workplace is one where you are expected to work despite your own individual needs or desires. Work puts the needs and desires of managers and corporations above and beyond workers, often to the point of abuse through being overworked and underpaid."

I 100% agree with this. We need to end that type of work. Telling people they should just not work for abusive employers is not really helpful, nor a real solution. There is not readily available work that is non-exploitative. Corporations literally answer to shareholders (profits), and they arguably cannot just be "human" to workers without violating their fiduciary duty to shareholders. Late stage capitalism is terrible.

I agree with you. It's not anti-work meaning "I don't want to do any work whatsoever." I was largely oblivious to how terrible many of these workplaces are until I started reading people's first hand accounts (like the Amazon truck driver who was told they would be fired if they came back early despite the tornado sirens going off). And even if only half are true, it was still eye opening. I've been lucky and have had really good bosses throughout my career. But I see now how exploited workers are these days. In 2000, I earned $9 an hour as a hostess at a restaurant. Now 21 years later, there are people trying to raise families on that same salary. Seriously, WTF?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with you, that is the core of the movement. The movement has grown with has gotten a lot of poeple who are more just wanting a fair social contract, meaning they want to be able to afford a real life with their work.

From r/antiwork FAQs:

"Why do you want to end work?
Because the modern day workplace is one where you are expected to work despite your own individual needs or desires. Work puts the needs and desires of managers and corporations above and beyond workers, often to the point of abuse through being overworked and underpaid."

I 100% agree with this. We need to end that type of work. Telling people they should just not work for abusive employers is not really helpful, nor a real solution. There is not readily available work that is non-exploitative. Corporations literally answer to shareholders (profits), and they arguably cannot just be "human" to workers without violating their fiduciary duty to shareholders. Late stage capitalism is terrible.

I agree with you. It's not anti-work meaning "I don't want to do any work whatsoever." I was largely oblivious to how terrible many of these workplaces are until I started reading people's first hand accounts (like the Amazon truck driver who was told they would be fired if they came back early despite the tornado sirens going off). And even if only half are true, it was still eye opening. I've been lucky and have had really good bosses throughout my career. But I see now how exploited workers are these days. In 2000, I earned $9 an hour as a hostess at a restaurant. Now 21 years later, there are people trying to raise families on that same salary. Seriously, WTF?!

I come from midwest, in 2003, some of my friends who work at sports bars can collect $400 in tips on a saturday night. This is where you can buy a nice house for 300k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Boomers took all the wealth for themselves and basically rammed society down the drain. Everyone else is sick of it, and sick of them. It's a dangerous combo

WTF have you read this forum at all? there is literally NOBODY here that isn't making a decent living. Poor DCUMers with 750K HHI, "poor" people making 200.

Makes me wonder what they think of those who earn under 100k or who are homeless? Do they categorize them the same?

[Anonymous]

I’m a millennial in my mid 30’s and support it. I’ve watched my (almost all male) friends who went to Silicon Valley or hedge funds get absurdly rich (like $1mil+ annual salary in your late 20’s rich), and everyone else struggle no matter how hard they work. People who work 50 hour weeks, who have graduate degrees from good schools, should NOT be struggling to buy a modest starter home in their mid-30’s. Then even if you do, childcare costs more than a mortgage. Enough!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a millennial in my mid 30’s and support it. I’ve watched my (almost all male) friends who went to Silicon Valley or hedge funds get absurdly rich (like $1mil+ annual salary in your late 20’s rich), and everyone else struggle no matter how hard they work. People who work 50 hour weeks, who have graduate degrees from good schools, should NOT be struggling to buy a modest starter home in their mid-30’s. Then even if you do, childcare costs more than a mortgage. Enough!

The average silicon Valley salary is 90k. What are they making 1mil in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Boomers took all the wealth for themselves and basically rammed society down the drain. Everyone else is sick of it, and sick of them. It's a dangerous combo

WTF have you read this forum at all? there is literally NOBODY here that isn't making a decent living. Poor DCUMers with 750K HHI, "poor" people making 200.

Um, yeah, there are plenty of us. It always astounds me to read things like this here, as if DCUM checks your tax return before you’re allowed to post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a millennial in my mid 30’s and support it. I’ve watched my (almost all male) friends who went to Silicon Valley or hedge funds get absurdly rich (like $1mil+ annual salary in your late 20’s rich), and everyone else struggle no matter how hard they work. People who work 50 hour weeks, who have graduate degrees from good schools, should NOT be struggling to buy a modest starter home in their mid-30’s. Then even if you do, childcare costs more than a mortgage. Enough!

The average silicon Valley salary is 90k. What are they making 1mil in?

Software engineers and hedge fund managers and Wall Street traders are making that much.

You’re right, most people in SV and NYC aren’t making anything that amazing, but they still have to pay SF/NYC prices to live. So even the 2nd tier tech and finance jobs are struggling, while still working insane hours.