At what HHI did you stop feeling middle class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea of socioeconomic class around here creates confusion as realistically the average HHI is significantly higher than elsewhere in the nation or even abroad. We are among the richest people in the world, here in the DC area. And yet when you look at your life, living in a small townhouse in a regular suburb driving a practical car like Subaru and sending your kids to public school, you feel like you’re just another regular American. The money doesn’t go far. A young couple bringing in 250k feel less than when really that’s top income globally.

At what point do you feel, well, not middle class?

400k

My husband and I make $435 and I feel very middle class (we are in our mid 30s). I’d say closer to $600K.

You must be referring to feeling ‘upper’ middle class. There’s no way at that hhi you would only feel middle class unless you have 10 kids or six figure debt or something.

How do you know the schools were high priced? College and medical school are not free.

We’re both doctors who went to medical school relatively late and prior to medical school worked in poorly paid positions, so basically saved nothing. We started making a combined income around $300K a few years ago. We have focused a lot on paying down debt and only have about $35K left. We just bought a $1.3M house in a HCOL area (outside NYC) last year and took out a 401K loan of $45K to afford it and we’ve been paying that loan back this year, which has been tough. We also have 2 kids in preschool and a nanny, because our hours are long and unpredictable and we don’t have any family help. We have one fully paid off car (2018 Subaru) and are putting off buying another car for as long as possible. We haven’t taken a vacation since 2019. I realize that paying off our debt (minus the mortgage) is temporary. Maybe my perspective is skewed by the fact that I came from a very middle class background (HHI under 70K, both parents routinely worked more than one job) or that I live in a very HCOL area where everyone around me seems to make way more.

You have a spending issue. You choose to go to high priced schools and then bought an insanely expensive house. You could have done cheaper housing, you could have done day care and a baby sitter. Your choices don't make you middle class.

If you think $1.3M is a crazy amount to spend on a house, you are really out of touch. There comes a point where you can't actually find something decent for less. A small 3 bedroom home outside NYC is at least $1.3m and it doesn't make sense to have a crazy commute and never see your spouse or kids. I don't think OP was saying she regretted medical school but it is expensive and the loans have to be paid off. No vacations and driving a Subaru does not sound like a "spending issue" to me. You just sound bitter.

[Anonymous]

So for us, it was less about an actual dollar amount and more about not worrying about money.

If my kids need something for school or sports, I'll pay to have it overnighted. However, I won't spend more than $50 on sunglasses because I break or lose them.

I spend money on what I value and save on what I don't value.

My husband makes about $375,000 - $425,000 and I make $30,000-$2000,000 depending on how my investments do that year. All of my money goes into retirement and college savings so I never really feel like I'm earning anything. I never see it. I don't even have an ATM card or checkbook for my accounts because we don't touch them. I have family money that I haven't touched except for a down payment on our house but it's there as a cushion and helped us relax in lean years. My husband didn't come from money but has about $8million in a bank account from selling a company he owned.

I have a healthy bank account but I don't feel rich. I feel like there are always people around here with much, much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea of socioeconomic class around here creates confusion as realistically the average HHI is significantly higher than elsewhere in the nation or even abroad. We are among the richest people in the world, here in the DC area. And yet when you look at your life, living in a small townhouse in a regular suburb driving a practical car like Subaru and sending your kids to public school, you feel like you’re just another regular American. The money doesn’t go far. A young couple bringing in 250k feel less than when really that’s top income globally.

At what point do you feel, well, not middle class?

400k

My husband and I make $435 and I feel very middle class (we are in our mid 30s). I’d say closer to $600K.

You must be referring to feeling ‘upper’ middle class. There’s no way at that hhi you would only feel middle class unless you have 10 kids or six figure debt or something.

How do you know the schools were high priced? College and medical school are not free.

We’re both doctors who went to medical school relatively late and prior to medical school worked in poorly paid positions, so basically saved nothing. We started making a combined income around $300K a few years ago. We have focused a lot on paying down debt and only have about $35K left. We just bought a $1.3M house in a HCOL area (outside NYC) last year and took out a 401K loan of $45K to afford it and we’ve been paying that loan back this year, which has been tough. We also have 2 kids in preschool and a nanny, because our hours are long and unpredictable and we don’t have any family help. We have one fully paid off car (2018 Subaru) and are putting off buying another car for as long as possible. We haven’t taken a vacation since 2019. I realize that paying off our debt (minus the mortgage) is temporary. Maybe my perspective is skewed by the fact that I came from a very middle class background (HHI under 70K, both parents routinely worked more than one job) or that I live in a very HCOL area where everyone around me seems to make way more.

You have a spending issue. You choose to go to high priced schools and then bought an insanely expensive house. You could have done cheaper housing, you could have done day care and a baby sitter. Your choices don't make you middle class.

If you think $1.3M is a crazy amount to spend on a house, you are really out of touch. There comes a point where you can't actually find something decent for less. A small 3 bedroom home outside NYC is at least $1.3m and it doesn't make sense to have a crazy commute and never see your spouse or kids. I don't think OP was saying she regretted medical school but it is expensive and the loans have to be paid off. No vacations and driving a Subaru does not sound like a "spending issue" to me. You just sound bitter.

Yes, its a crazy amount when you cannot afford it. You live further out and commute like the rest of us do. I am not bitter. We make far less, have our house almost paid off as we pay in extra, a nice college fund for the kids and pay cash for our cars. Sounds like we are living better on less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea of socioeconomic class around here creates confusion as realistically the average HHI is significantly higher than elsewhere in the nation or even abroad. We are among the richest people in the world, here in the DC area. And yet when you look at your life, living in a small townhouse in a regular suburb driving a practical car like Subaru and sending your kids to public school, you feel like you’re just another regular American. The money doesn’t go far. A young couple bringing in 250k feel less than when really that’s top income globally.

At what point do you feel, well, not middle class?

400k

My husband and I make $435 and I feel very middle class (we are in our mid 30s). I’d say closer to $600K.

You must be referring to feeling ‘upper’ middle class. There’s no way at that hhi you would only feel middle class unless you have 10 kids or six figure debt or something.

How do you know the schools were high priced? College and medical school are not free.

We’re both doctors who went to medical school relatively late and prior to medical school worked in poorly paid positions, so basically saved nothing. We started making a combined income around $300K a few years ago. We have focused a lot on paying down debt and only have about $35K left. We just bought a $1.3M house in a HCOL area (outside NYC) last year and took out a 401K loan of $45K to afford it and we’ve been paying that loan back this year, which has been tough. We also have 2 kids in preschool and a nanny, because our hours are long and unpredictable and we don’t have any family help. We have one fully paid off car (2018 Subaru) and are putting off buying another car for as long as possible. We haven’t taken a vacation since 2019. I realize that paying off our debt (minus the mortgage) is temporary. Maybe my perspective is skewed by the fact that I came from a very middle class background (HHI under 70K, both parents routinely worked more than one job) or that I live in a very HCOL area where everyone around me seems to make way more.

You have a spending issue. You choose to go to high priced schools and then bought an insanely expensive house. You could have done cheaper housing, you could have done day care and a baby sitter. Your choices don't make you middle class.

If you think $1.3M is a crazy amount to spend on a house, you are really out of touch. There comes a point where you can't actually find something decent for less. A small 3 bedroom home outside NYC is at least $1.3m and it doesn't make sense to have a crazy commute and never see your spouse or kids. I don't think OP was saying she regretted medical school but it is expensive and the loans have to be paid off. No vacations and driving a Subaru does not sound like a "spending issue" to me. You just sound bitter.

Yes, its a crazy amount when you cannot afford it. You live further out and commute like the rest of us do. I am not bitter. We make far less, have our house almost paid off as we pay in extra, a nice college fund for the kids and pay cash for our cars. Sounds like we are living better on less.

Many physician contracts require living within 1/2 hour or so of the hospital. If you have long and irregular hours and you live in a state like New York where it snows and rains a lot and you have to be at the hospital in the middle of the night, you can’t always live that far out. Plus doing patient care you have to be alert and on your game because the consequences of missing a diagnosis can be severe.

Where we live $1.3m is not insanely expensive—it will get you a basic 4BR house in a reasonable school district. We were lucky to buy in a few years ago when housing was much cheaper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:125. You all are scary wealthy and not middle class.

I definitely felt middle class when we made $110k.

Expenses:

Taxes: $12k
Insurance: $5k
Retirement: $12k
Rent: $12k
Utilities (including cell phones): $5k
Student loans: $5k
Childcare for 2 kids: $25k
Cars: $6k
Vacation: $2k
Charity: $2k
Food: $8k
Gas: $8k

Total: $104,000

That meant that we had about $500/month for the four of us for everything else we needed to buy from band-aids and baby bottles to car and home repairs to furniture and clothes. I'm not saying that we were dirt poor or anything. We were saving for retirement. Our kids were in a good daycare, and we had everything we needed. We had lived in Appalachia prior to that and had friends who were truly poor.

But we were definitely still middle class.

That's a lot of money on cars for your income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:125. You all are scary wealthy and not middle class.

I definitely felt middle class when we made $110k.

Expenses:

Taxes: $12k
Insurance: $5k
Retirement: $12k
Rent: $12k
Utilities (including cell phones): $5k
Student loans: $5k
Childcare for 2 kids: $25k
Cars: $6k
Vacation: $2k
Charity: $2k
Food: $8k
Gas: $8k

Total: $104,000

That meant that we had about $500/month for the four of us for everything else we needed to buy from band-aids and baby bottles to car and home repairs to furniture and clothes. I'm not saying that we were dirt poor or anything. We were saving for retirement. Our kids were in a good daycare, and we had everything we needed. We had lived in Appalachia prior to that and had friends who were truly poor.

But we were definitely still middle class.

That's a lot of money on cars for your income.

This budget does not make sense. Why give that much to charity? Cars and gas is excessive too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

[Anonymous]

We are at 315K in a more reasonably priced area of the country (Dallas). Obviously our income is above middle class and we know that, but we save aggressively and live on an upper-middle class amount of money.

That said, for me, the feeling is less about income level and more about asset/net worth level. As long as we **need** to work, to me - that feels middle class, like we aren't fully in control of our options. Once we are financially independent, that we could sustain our annual spending (at a middle class lifestyle level) on our investments alone - that feels like a major milestone where I will legitimately feel rich. Even though I know the math says it is much sooner than that, but emotions are a different thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:125. You all are scary wealthy and not middle class.

I definitely felt middle class when we made $110k.

Expenses:

Taxes: $12k
Insurance: $5k
Retirement: $12k
Rent: $12k
Utilities (including cell phones): $5k
Student loans: $5k
Childcare for 2 kids: $25k
Cars: $6k
Vacation: $2k
Charity: $2k
Food: $8k
Gas: $8k

Total: $104,000

That meant that we had about $500/month for the four of us for everything else we needed to buy from band-aids and baby bottles to car and home repairs to furniture and clothes. I'm not saying that we were dirt poor or anything. We were saving for retirement. Our kids were in a good daycare, and we had everything we needed. We had lived in Appalachia prior to that and had friends who were truly poor.

But we were definitely still middle class.

That's a lot of money on cars for your income.

This budget does not make sense. Why give that much to charity? Cars and gas is excessive too.

2000 out of 110K income is not excessive. You know a lot of people tithe 10% of their income right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So for us, it was less about an actual dollar amount and more about not worrying about money.

If my kids need something for school or sports, I'll pay to have it overnighted. However, I won't spend more than $50 on sunglasses because I break or lose them.

I spend money on what I value and save on what I don't value.

My husband makes about $375,000 - $425,000 and I make $30,000-$2000,000 depending on how my investments do that year. All of my money goes into retirement and college savings so I never really feel like I'm earning anything. I never see it. I don't even have an ATM card or checkbook for my accounts because we don't touch them. I have family money that I haven't touched except for a down payment on our house but it's there as a cushion and helped us relax in lean years. My husband didn't come from money but has about $8million in a bank account from selling a company he owned.

I have a healthy bank account but I don't feel rich. I feel like there are always people around here with much, much more.

Family money
Investments
8m from sale of company
HHI of 400-600k

You don’t have “lean” years. You are rich. Good lord, y’all are the dumbest people I’ve ever encountered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea of socioeconomic class around here creates confusion as realistically the average HHI is significantly higher than elsewhere in the nation or even abroad. We are among the richest people in the world, here in the DC area. And yet when you look at your life, living in a small townhouse in a regular suburb driving a practical car like Subaru and sending your kids to public school, you feel like you’re just another regular American. The money doesn’t go far. A young couple bringing in 250k feel less than when really that’s top income globally.

At what point do you feel, well, not middle class?

400k

My husband and I make $435 and I feel very middle class (we are in our mid 30s). I’d say closer to $600K.

You must be referring to feeling ‘upper’ middle class. There’s no way at that hhi you would only feel middle class unless you have 10 kids or six figure debt or something.

How do you know the schools were high priced? College and medical school are not free.

We’re both doctors who went to medical school relatively late and prior to medical school worked in poorly paid positions, so basically saved nothing. We started making a combined income around $300K a few years ago. We have focused a lot on paying down debt and only have about $35K left. We just bought a $1.3M house in a HCOL area (outside NYC) last year and took out a 401K loan of $45K to afford it and we’ve been paying that loan back this year, which has been tough. We also have 2 kids in preschool and a nanny, because our hours are long and unpredictable and we don’t have any family help. We have one fully paid off car (2018 Subaru) and are putting off buying another car for as long as possible. We haven’t taken a vacation since 2019. I realize that paying off our debt (minus the mortgage) is temporary. Maybe my perspective is skewed by the fact that I came from a very middle class background (HHI under 70K, both parents routinely worked more than one job) or that I live in a very HCOL area where everyone around me seems to make way more.

You have a spending issue. You choose to go to high priced schools and then bought an insanely expensive house. You could have done cheaper housing, you could have done day care and a baby sitter. Your choices don't make you middle class.

If you think $1.3M is a crazy amount to spend on a house, you are really out of touch. There comes a point where you can't actually find something decent for less. A small 3 bedroom home outside NYC is at least $1.3m and it doesn't make sense to have a crazy commute and never see your spouse or kids. I don't think OP was saying she regretted medical school but it is expensive and the loans have to be paid off. No vacations and driving a Subaru does not sound like a "spending issue" to me. You just sound bitter.

Yes, its a crazy amount when you cannot afford it. You live further out and commute like the rest of us do. I am not bitter. We make far less, have our house almost paid off as we pay in extra, a nice college fund for the kids and pay cash for our cars. Sounds like we are living better on less.

NP here - you are not living better. You are sacrificing time with your kids for cheaper housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:125. You all are scary wealthy and not middle class.

I definitely felt middle class when we made $110k.

Expenses:

Taxes: $12k
Insurance: $5k
Retirement: $12k
Rent: $12k
Utilities (including cell phones): $5k
Student loans: $5k
Childcare for 2 kids: $25k
Cars: $6k
Vacation: $2k
Charity: $2k
Food: $8k
Gas: $8k

Total: $104,000

That meant that we had about $500/month for the four of us for everything else we needed to buy from band-aids and baby bottles to car and home repairs to furniture and clothes. I'm not saying that we were dirt poor or anything. We were saving for retirement. Our kids were in a good daycare, and we had everything we needed. We had lived in Appalachia prior to that and had friends who were truly poor.

But we were definitely still middle class.

That's a lot of money on cars for your income.

This budget does not make sense. Why give that much to charity? Cars and gas is excessive too.

Because the PP is not a selfish a*hole?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:125. You all are scary wealthy and not middle class.

I definitely felt middle class when we made $110k.

Expenses:

Taxes: $12k
Insurance: $5k
Retirement: $12k
Rent: $12k
Utilities (including cell phones): $5k
Student loans: $5k
Childcare for 2 kids: $25k
Cars: $6k
Vacation: $2k
Charity: $2k
Food: $8k
Gas: $8k

Total: $104,000

That meant that we had about $500/month for the four of us for everything else we needed to buy from band-aids and baby bottles to car and home repairs to furniture and clothes. I'm not saying that we were dirt poor or anything. We were saving for retirement. Our kids were in a good daycare, and we had everything we needed. We had lived in Appalachia prior to that and had friends who were truly poor.

But we were definitely still middle class.

That's a lot of money on cars for your income.

This budget does not make sense. Why give that much to charity? Cars and gas is excessive too.

500 dollars a month for two car payments throughout the year is not excessive. What the heck? And 2K is not that much for charity, even at 112K a year. It's not even half a percent. Are you one of the 400K per year who gives nothing?

[Anonymous]

We make 225 total in a cheaper city and I’d say we started feeling ‘upper middle’ class this year, when we both passed 100K. But some aspects of feeling middle-class are hard to shake; I wonder if we’ll ever feel well-off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that socioeconomic status isn’t just about money. There is a huge socio part to it. So, I will always feel middle class because that is how I grew up and it is a part of me despite having a high income. Why does it matter how someone feels? We should talk about facts and how we allocate responsibilities like taxes based on facts. Income of X is high earning. I think it should be taxed at a higher rate than income of Y. None of this feeling stuff. It is too squishy and doesn’t move the conversation along. Just makes people crazy.

Yes! Americans convolute class and income. These are not the same thing as almost any European will tell you. I feel middle class because I am as my tastes and attitude will demonstrate. I am definitely upper income and high wealth. I'm still middle class!