At what HHI did you stop feeling middle class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you say “middle class” do you mean old days middle class, or nowadays middle class? There’s a difference. Nowadays middle class are actually pretty poor…struggling to pay bills and clipping coupons and forgoing college and health care because both are astronomical. In the old days middle class had the Subaru and took a summer vacation and so forth. Anyway, I agree with around $400k.

Middle class is not $400K. You are extremely wealthy, probably living in a million dollar house. Middle class live in small, $300-400K homes max or rent. They are living on a tight budget. They dont' have savings, retirement, etc.

[Anonymous]

Our income is largely unchanged (about $250k), but when we had the mortgage paid off and passed $3M invested, and I realized how we were likely to earn as much from our investments as we do from our jobs, that seemed like moving beyond middle class.

[Anonymous]

At 900k I stoped buying used tires and junkyard parts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you say “middle class” do you mean old days middle class, or nowadays middle class? There’s a difference. Nowadays middle class are actually pretty poor…struggling to pay bills and clipping coupons and forgoing college and health care because both are astronomical. In the old days middle class had the Subaru and took a summer vacation and so forth. Anyway, I agree with around $400k.

Middle class is not $400K. You are extremely wealthy, probably living in a million dollar house. Middle class live in small, $300-400K homes max or rent. They are living on a tight budget. They dont' have savings, retirement, etc.

Million is a small starter home in a check house area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends how long you've been making the high income. Often the first few years of "professional pay" are following years in school and coincide with people starting families. So a couple can hit $400k HHI, but have $400k in educational debt and are very behind on retirement, be living in a pricy apartment near work, have two giant daycare bills for downtown centers, extra childcare bills to cover their intense work hours, lots of convenience food costs to support two busy careers with little kids, plus feel a need to save for a house down-payment (and potentially another car to shift to the suburbs), plus then furniture and tools to support the new house, etc. It's an expensive time of life. Ask the same couple 10 years later and they'll be much more comfortable.

They should not have taken so much debt, should have waited to have kids, and made different choices. Something is wrong if you cannot live comfortably on that even with the debt. We'd be very comfortable and we are comfortable making less than half of that.

No. You don't get it. This is the position of those who get advanced education, such as doctors. They know they'll be fine eventually, but it's still tight for a few years as they finally get started with a professional salary.

[Anonymous]

No matter how you "feel", the fact is that in the DMV the top 20% of HHI starts at 200K. In the top 20% you are no longer in "the middle". You are upper class. To say otherwise is just a feeble attempt at pretending to be humble. The fact that you are not uber-wealthy with private planes, yachts, chefs, etc., does not put you in the "middle". It doesn't go "dirt-poor (1%) - middle class (98%) - uber-wealthy (1%)." It doesn't matter if you have student loans, childcare expenses or can't vacation on Necker Island.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends how long you've been making the high income. Often the first few years of "professional pay" are following years in school and coincide with people starting families. So a couple can hit $400k HHI, but have $400k in educational debt and are very behind on retirement, be living in a pricy apartment near work, have two giant daycare bills for downtown centers, extra childcare bills to cover their intense work hours, lots of convenience food costs to support two busy careers with little kids, plus feel a need to save for a house down-payment (and potentially another car to shift to the suburbs), plus then furniture and tools to support the new house, etc. It's an expensive time of life. Ask the same couple 10 years later and they'll be much more comfortable.

They should not have taken so much debt, should have waited to have kids, and made different choices. Something is wrong if you cannot live comfortably on that even with the debt. We'd be very comfortable and we are comfortable making less than half of that.

I’m really loling at the idea I should have waited to have kids so I could have felt rich sooner. Those are some messed up priorities man.

Also the debt was necessary to make the money (prestigious law school). I was making $35k/yr before I left for law school. Definitely didn’t feel rich then!

[Anonymous]

Humans are greedy. It’s never enough.

[Anonymous]

We make $350k. We have a very nice house and two newish and nice cars. We know we are not middle class, but we still need to look at money. Vacations, kids camp/activities, etc. add up fast.

[Anonymous]

I think you need to shift your mindset.

If you can fly to go on vacations, sign your kids up for extracurricular programs (beyond a season or two of rev sports), not worry about the cost of car repairs or paying for dental work, order grub hub without a second thought, and save for college/retirement, you are upper class. Not super wealthy, but certainly better off than the majority of Americans.

At $130k in this area that was not the case for us. We were saving a minimum (but still some), praying our 10 year old car would survive, and telling our kid he could not take piano lessons. At $200k things got much easier. At $250k we still don’t have fancy cars, splurge on designer clothes, or even really eat out much, but are able to do things like fly out west to go skiing, and I fully recognize we’re financially very fortunate.

[Anonymous]

I grew up actually middle class (well under $100k HHI) and with a HHI of $250k I don't feel like what I'd characterize as middle class.

We live comfortably in a nice, renovated house in a low-crime area near public transit and with decent public schools. We can buy what we want without stressing or worrying, we don't really budget because we're not stretched although we also don't splurge on things we don't need (mostly because that's not what makes us happy). We go on nice vacations. We have decent savings. Our kids get the lessons and activities they want and need.

I am positive our lifestyle would feel very middle class to many of you. But for me, relative to what I grew up with and saw family and friends grow up with, and what I know is typical across the country (not just in our white-collar DMV bubble), we are way more comfortable and well-off.

[Anonymous]

500k we still didn’t feel well off because we had student loans, childcare expenses, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up actually middle class (well under $100k HHI) and with a HHI of $250k I don't feel like what I'd characterize as middle class.

We live comfortably in a nice, renovated house in a low-crime area near public transit and with decent public schools. We can buy what we want without stressing or worrying, we don't really budget because we're not stretched although we also don't splurge on things we don't need (mostly because that's not what makes us happy). We go on nice vacations. We have decent savings. Our kids get the lessons and activities they want and need.

I am positive our lifestyle would feel very middle class to many of you. But for me, relative to what I grew up with and saw family and friends grow up with, and what I know is typical across the country (not just in our white-collar DMV bubble), we are way more comfortable and well-off.

This is us too. When we made about $300k, we could do everything the PP said and not really think about money when making our choices. Our choices of course weren’t extravagant. We make probably closer to $500k now and nothing has really changed.

[Anonymous]

It wasn’t until we hit $1 million that I felt anything more than dirt poor.

[Anonymous]

500