Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, I respectfully disagree. Yes, I'm sure there are bad travel coaches/bad travel clubs who are in it just for the money. But there are a number of very good clubs with programs in the DC area that are focused on teaching kids the skills to develop as players. If you haven't seen or experienced this, then you're looking in the wrong places.

This has nothing to do with how many "good" players there are - as far as I'm concerned, they all have the potential to develop/improve at these young ages. This is about demand for a program that provides the structure and training for kids who love playing soccer, want to get better and want more than a weekly house practice with a volunteer parent coach who may or may not know the game and how to teach the skills kids will need to play later in life. Again, if you don't want it, don't buy it.

And...U9 travel soccer doesn't cost $3000.

I am the PP, and with all due respect, there are very FEW clubs focused on developing soccer players. Please don't highlight how many licenses coaches have at these clubs you are referencing because licensing doesn't mean very much at all. And don't tell me how so-and-so club won a state cup. Go watch them play. Getting wins is much easier than development of soccer players and until US Soccer and youth soccer in the US acknowledge this and appreciate it fully, things will not improve.

Soccer coaching is like teaching. In order to be good at it, you need to put in the time and care to connect with each child. I repeat...90% of coaches don't put in nearly enough time or energy into it and thus aren't developing the kids at the pace commensurate with what we all are paying.

And...if you add up McLean's fees it is pretty damn close to $3000 even at U9. If it makes you feel better that at your club you are only paying $2000 for your 8 year-old, then keep writing those checks.

One more thing - training is where the lion's share of the development happens, not in games. Games are the fun part. So good training is EVERYTHING in development of youth soccer players.

So you're saying there are a lot of bad clubs and a lot of bad coaches. That's true. And a lot of professional coaches really aren't better than a well-trained parent coach. (Sadly, USSF and the other organizations aren't good at training parent coaches because they rely too heavily on long, infrequently scheduled and inconveniently scheduled license courses.)

Those are a lot of valid issues. That's fine.

But the desire of parents to give their kids a good soccer experience is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. Maybe we should only have 1-2 travel teams per club and everyone else should play House, which would make House league better. I don't think that's going to happen, though.

Personally I'd rather have a lot of hybrid House/travel teams. Let kids stay in House but occasionally get a chance to play in a "travel" tournament. Let them get opportunities to do some training with good coaches, whether they're paid pros or dedicated parents.

Sound good?

And until that happens, I don't see any point in looking down our noses at people paying $1,800 a year to play ODSL at U9. For some people, in the current landscape, that's the best opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"If you know the game, go watch the teams that play true football and then go watch them train and then compare that training to what you are paying $3000 to put your child into. If you don't, ask around and find out what teams play more than kick and chase and watch those teams train."


I'm interested in taking your advice. So which teams should I go watch to see "true football"?

Me too. It's an honest question, open to anyone -- which teams play the closest to "true football" in this area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If you know the game, go watch the teams that play true football and then go watch them train and then compare that training to what you are paying $3000 to put your child into. If you don't, ask around and find out what teams play more than kick and chase and watch those teams train."


I'm interested in taking your advice. So which teams should I go watch to see "true football"?

Me too. It's an honest question, open to anyone -- which teams play the closest to "true football" in this area?

Me too. My son played some crossover last year with LMVSC crossover league. Alexandria's "top" crossover team did a great job using the GK and backs to build up the attack. I enjoyed watching the games we played against them. I've never seen their training for U8s/U9s but would certainly be interested in doing so.

Does anyone know why Alexandria or Arlington doesn't participate in FPYC's or Herndon's All-Star tournament?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If you know the game, go watch the teams that play true football and then go watch them train and then compare that training to what you are paying $3000 to put your child into. If you don't, ask around and find out what teams play more than kick and chase and watch those teams train."


I'm interested in taking your advice. So which teams should I go watch to see "true football"?

Me too. It's an honest question, open to anyone -- which teams play the closest to "true football" in this area?

Me too. My son played some crossover last year with LMVSC crossover league. Alexandria's "top" crossover team did a great job using the GK and backs to build up the attack. I enjoyed watching the games we played against them. I've never seen their training for U8s/U9s but would certainly be interested in doing so.

Does anyone know why Alexandria or Arlington doesn't participate in FPYC's or Herndon's All-Star tournament?

"True football" clubs wouldn't be working so hard on team tactics at U8. That's where you need to build up individual skills. Some coaches even debate whether you should teach passing at that age. (I say yes, others say no.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If you know the game, go watch the teams that play true football and then go watch them train and then compare that training to what you are paying $3000 to put your child into. If you don't, ask around and find out what teams play more than kick and chase and watch those teams train."


I'm interested in taking your advice. So which teams should I go watch to see "true football"?

Me too. It's an honest question, open to anyone -- which teams play the closest to "true football" in this area?

Me too. My son played some crossover last year with LMVSC crossover league. Alexandria's "top" crossover team did a great job using the GK and backs to build up the attack. I enjoyed watching the games we played against them. I've never seen their training for U8s/U9s but would certainly be interested in doing so.

Does anyone know why Alexandria or Arlington doesn't participate in FPYC's or Herndon's All-Star tournament?

"True football" clubs wouldn't be working so hard on team tactics at U8. That's where you need to build up individual skills. Some coaches even debate whether you should teach passing at that age. (I say yes, others say no.)

If you don't teach passing, then you aren't teaching enough technical skills. Passing is more technical than tactical at a young age. How to properly position your body to give and receive passes is technical. A lot of individual work can happen outside of training and the money being spent should include TEAM technical training and some tactics which includes developing the soccer brain at young ages-you would be surprised what young kids can understand and then execute. US Soccer has it wrong and it shows in the MLS and at the National Level. How are kids going to learn how to receive a pass and take space or turn under pressure if they never get the ball?

I wasn't thumbing my nose at those in ODSL. I am disgusted by the amount of money these clubs are raking in for substandard teaching.

For what clubs are training well, I can only speak to experience, but I have seem some excellent training at Ashburn at young ages, Bethesda too, Joga trains well, LMVS seems to be doing some good things and BRYC at the younger ages. McLean and Annandale are pure recruiting factories with little development at the young ages with very rare exceptions. These are the clubs that have success at the older ages with kids that did not come through their systems. Arlington and Alexandria are hit or miss.

Possession soccer is something that takes a lot of work to develop. Kick and chase can be taught in an afternoon. Try taking a group of individual stars and teach them possession, it will take months and months. Take a group of talented players with highly developed soccer IQ and possession soccer skills and you can teach them kick and chase in 30 minutes.

Development is crucial at the younger ages. That is what people should be paying for. If a club can do that for 6 teams worth, then kudos. I just don't think there are enough good coaches out there for that to be a reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If you know the game, go watch the teams that play true football and then go watch them train and then compare that training to what you are paying $3000 to put your child into. If you don't, ask around and find out what teams play more than kick and chase and watch those teams train."


I'm interested in taking your advice. So which teams should I go watch to see "true football"?

Me too. It's an honest question, open to anyone -- which teams play the closest to "true football" in this area?

Me too. My son played some crossover last year with LMVSC crossover league. Alexandria's "top" crossover team did a great job using the GK and backs to build up the attack. I enjoyed watching the games we played against them. I've never seen their training for U8s/U9s but would certainly be interested in doing so.

Does anyone know why Alexandria or Arlington doesn't participate in FPYC's or Herndon's All-Star tournament?

"True football" clubs wouldn't be working so hard on team tactics at U8. That's where you need to build up individual skills. Some coaches even debate whether you should teach passing at that age. (I say yes, others say no.)

If you don't teach passing, then you aren't teaching enough technical skills. Passing is more technical than tactical at a young age. How to properly position your body to give and receive passes is technical. A lot of individual work can happen outside of training and the money being spent should include TEAM technical training and some tactics which includes developing the soccer brain at young ages-you would be surprised what young kids can understand and then execute. US Soccer has it wrong and it shows in the MLS and at the National Level. How are kids going to learn how to receive a pass and take space or turn under pressure if they never get the ball?

I wasn't thumbing my nose at those in ODSL. I am disgusted by the amount of money these clubs are raking in for substandard teaching.

For what clubs are training well, I can only speak to experience, but I have seem some excellent training at Ashburn at young ages, Bethesda too, Joga trains well, LMVS seems to be doing some good things and BRYC at the younger ages. McLean and Annandale are pure recruiting factories with little development at the young ages with very rare exceptions. These are the clubs that have success at the older ages with kids that did not come through their systems. Arlington and Alexandria are hit or miss.

Possession soccer is something that takes a lot of work to develop. Kick and chase can be taught in an afternoon. Try taking a group of individual stars and teach them possession, it will take months and months. Take a group of talented players with highly developed soccer IQ and possession soccer skills and you can teach them kick and chase in 30 minutes.

Development is crucial at the younger ages. That is what people should be paying for. If a club can do that for 6 teams worth, then kudos. I just don't think there are enough good coaches out there for that to be a reality.

I absolutely agree on passing. You can't build up a first touch if you're never receiving the ball.

Just saying that you can't watch a U8 team "build from the back" and conclude that the club is playing "true football." Some of the teams in that crossover league are practicing team play rather than working on individual development. That's backwards. As you say -- passing at this age is more technical than tactical.

I guess some clubs charge too much for ODSL, but the only way I'd see to cut costs would be to go with parent coaches. Which, honestly, might be an improvement over a lot of the "pro" coaches out there.

Plenty of good coaches out there, though. Just a lot of bad ones, too. I know some former college players with D licenses who'd be marvelous NCSL, WAGS or ODSL coaches, but they're coaching their own kids in House league. Maybe ODSL teams should pay MORE so they can get those coaches to quit their day jobs and coach full time. (Tongue slightly in cheek there.)

[Anonymous]

Isn't passing team play? Doesn't practicing team play also build individual play? Players need to know when to go forward, when to move square, and when to play back, no? Individual decision making takes practice.

This is all very confusing to me (I'm not a big soccer person but my son loves soccer). Some people say that you shouldn't pass until U10. Some people say that you should. Did I read that kids shouldn't do team play at U8. Is my son better off training with a wall and dribbling through cones than joining a team at U8...or younger?

What makes the training at Loudon, Joga, LMVS better than...VYS for example? Is it the drills that they are doing? Are there special drills that VYS doesn't know about or doesn't want to do? I heard that VYS doesn't work on passing until U10ish.

Lastly, what is true football then at U9 or whatever? A kid trying to dribble through 4 defenders?

[Anonymous]

Arlington has a rec tournament the week after Fall all-stars. Maybe that's why they don't participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't passing team play? Doesn't practicing team play also build individual play? Players need to know when to go forward, when to move square, and when to play back, no? Individual decision making takes practice.

This is all very confusing to me (I'm not a big soccer person but my son loves soccer). Some people say that you shouldn't pass until U10. Some people say that you should. Did I read that kids shouldn't do team play at U8. Is my son better off training with a wall and dribbling through cones than joining a team at U8...or younger?

What makes the training at Loudon, Joga, LMVS better than...VYS for example? Is it the drills that they are doing? Are there special drills that VYS doesn't know about or doesn't want to do? I heard that VYS doesn't work on passing until U10ish.

Lastly, what is true football then at U9 or whatever? A kid trying to dribble through 4 defenders?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TclBwhs-a7U

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand all this anger towards travel soccer programs with multiple teams per age group. If you think a C or D (3rd or 4th or 5th or whatever) team is a bad idea in a travel club, then don't put your kid on it. Our club doesn't have more than 3 teams per age group, but people accept spots on the B and C teams so their kids have access to the professional training and structure provided by a large club. Some kids may improve and move up, but others won't. Their parents still see value in having their kids participate in a more rigorous program than is offered through house or parent-coached ODSL teams. As the club adds teams, they also have to add coaching staff and field space/time so I doubt it's some huge money maker. These "lower" travel teams have the opportunity to get professional training, participate in leagues and tournaments against similarly skilled teams, and benefit from off season playing opportunities in indoor and futsal. All things not typically part of the house soccer experience.

I think the other thing to keep in mind is that there is really no way to tell which players have long term potential at U9, U10 and U11 - a kid who's a rock star at 9 may not pan out to be the next Messi by 16, and vice versa. Why not give kids who are interested in developing an environment where they can do so...even if they're starting on a lower level team at age 9 or 10? If those lower team players are assigned crap coaches and are not looked at for opportunities to move up, then, yes, that's a problem. Otherwise, they may just need some time and training to evolve.

And...don't blame travel for the problems with house programs. Go volunteer as a house commissioner/coach and try to fix it. The answer can't be to disband the lower travel teams - that's not gonna happen until there's a better alternative for decent (but not top level travel) players. I guess the cross-over leagues are a start.

Choice is a good thing and we have a lot of it here in the DC area - put your kid in the environment you think is best for them whether that's house/rec, ODSL or travel.

It is strange that anyone but C and D team parents would be concerned about the money C and D team parents spend on soccer. Keep perspective, when you are paying $700,000 to over a million on your home alone $1500-$3000 to have your child in an activity they enjoy is certainlly not a big deal. If it is a big deal and your child is not getting what you feel they need from a team, switch teams. This is what happens across the country. I hope these parents realize C and D teams help to also field a lower financial obligation to the A and B teams. Team sizes also grow and age goes up. I would prefer my A team child is playing trained and experienced players from B,C, D teams than randomally organized rec.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't passing team play? Doesn't practicing team play also build individual play? Players need to know when to go forward, when to move square, and when to play back, no? Individual decision making takes practice.

This is all very confusing to me (I'm not a big soccer person but my son loves soccer). Some people say that you shouldn't pass until U10. Some people say that you should. Did I read that kids shouldn't do team play at U8. Is my son better off training with a wall and dribbling through cones than joining a team at U8...or younger?

What makes the training at Loudon, Joga, LMVS better than...VYS for example? Is it the drills that they are doing? Are there special drills that VYS doesn't know about or doesn't want to do? I heard that VYS doesn't work on passing until U10ish.

Lastly, what is true football then at U9 or whatever? A kid trying to dribble through 4 defenders?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TclBwhs-a7U

I'd say that looks like some great team play. I wonder when they starting learning that? U7? U8?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't passing team play? Doesn't practicing team play also build individual play? Players need to know when to go forward, when to move square, and when to play back, no? Individual decision making takes practice.

This is all very confusing to me (I'm not a big soccer person but my son loves soccer). Some people say that you shouldn't pass until U10. Some people say that you should. Did I read that kids shouldn't do team play at U8. Is my son better off training with a wall and dribbling through cones than joining a team at U8...or younger?

What makes the training at Loudon, Joga, LMVS better than...VYS for example? Is it the drills that they are doing? Are there special drills that VYS doesn't know about or doesn't want to do? I heard that VYS doesn't work on passing until U10ish.

Not sure where you heard that -- VYS hasn't started training under new coaches, though the asst technical director for U9-U12 did indeed say a few things about seeing the game as more of "individual" thing. He's new. Under the old regime, I'm not sure what gave people the impression the other clubs had better training. Loudoun has a lot more people to choose from, Joga is marketed to "elite" kids who want to practice 4-5 times a week, LMVS is fine but didn't seem light-years ahead or anything.

Lastly, what is true football then at U9 or whatever? A kid trying to dribble through 4 defenders?

In one sense, I'd like to think kids learn good decisions. In another, the legitimate concern of the "no passing" folks is that we're all just yelling "PASS!" all the time and not letting players build up confidence taking on defenders.

If you've seen Crystal Dunn play for the Spirit, you've seen that 1-vs.-4 isn't always a bad thing!

[Anonymous]

While Joga continues to develop possession-oriented tactics that look extremely advanced for the age group, their teams have trouble attacking when faced with players of roughly equal talent. It's like a four-corners thing on steroids that leads nowhere. They play sloowwwww. Some may call it sophisticated soccer; others may see overcoaching that makes everyone lose sight of what the game is supposed to be about (scoring). Style over substance, if you will. We considered Joga for our son, but on the one hand we doubted he was quite good enough, and on the other we felt that the Joga kids practice way too much for elementary-age players. Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Well, when I see a U9 team that's very well-organized and plays out of the back, I know the coach is a whacko dictator. A touch of freedom verging on chaos is needed for players to develop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While Joga continues to develop possession-oriented tactics that look extremely advanced for the age group, their teams have trouble attacking when faced with players of roughly equal talent. It's like a four-corners thing on steroids that leads nowhere. They play sloowwwww. Some may call it sophisticated soccer; others may see overcoaching that makes everyone lose sight of what the game is supposed to be about (scoring). Style over substance, if you will. We considered Joga for our son, but on the one hand we doubted he was quite good enough, and on the other we felt that the Joga kids practice way too much for elementary-age players. Thoughts?

My thought is that you were dead on in your conclusions