Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My friend had a post partum nervous breakdown at six months after weeks of insomnia triggered by baby sleep struggles. She tried to go on fmla but her boss forced her to quit instead with threatening action letters because she said she had ‘already taken too much maternity leave.’ This is the society we live in that tells moms they are too big a burden until some moms say ok i get it, I’m worthless, I will just kill my kids and myself. Which of you who are so disgusted or outraged at her has founght for universal maternity leave? Which of you has lobbied for safe affordable subsidized daycare? Or adequate (first world) maternal medical care? You are the disgusting ones, desperate to see a public lynching while this very minute there is an exhausted mom in the verge of crisis with no one to turn to. You are handmaid’s tale characters. Your righteousness is blasphemy.

This is dumb. You sleep train. Put the baby to bed at 7 and go back in at 6. That’s all it takes.

That’s why it’s hard for a manager to have empathy for a woman who is voluntarily getting up for a six month old baby.

Yeah I wonder if this plays a role in PPD too. I had a subordinate who was constantly complaining of complete exhaustion but was getting up 3, 4, 5, times a night with a 9+ month old baby (after taking 6 months of maternity leave) because she and her husband didn't let the baby cry, ever, for even a second, for any reason. The baby had never fallen asleep on his own in his entire life. I mentioned to her that we had sleep-trained our kids and they slept 12 hours a night at her baby's age (younger actually) and she looked at me like I was some sort of child abuser. The baby is now over 2 and I still don't think he sleeps well at all and she's still sort of a zombie.

I had 2 babies who were STTN 7-7 by about 4 months old (minus the occasional regression) with very little effort to sleep train. And then my third baby humbled me and had only STTN a handful of times by 9 months. Her room was right next to the older kids’ rooms so I couldn’t leave her to cry loudly for extended periods without waking them (which would then extend the time of getting everyone back to bed). And every time we found a long weekend or some break where we thought we could try some form of sleep training, the baby would get sick and we didn’t have the heart to let a sick baby cry. Our nanny even tried to help us get her on a better sleep schedule, but it took a full year to get some semblance of normal sleep.

Only in America would blame a mom of an infant for being tired because she should just be shutting her young child in a room for 11 hours and ignore their crying, so that she can prioritize work instead. We are a stand out this way in the industrialized world, caring more about workplace productivity than caregiving for babies.

Seriously? Tell me what they do in Italy. Sweden? Syria? Kenya? Peru? You don’t really mean to argue that there is a strict procedure that all new parents in those countries use to help young mothers get their babies to sleep that we, because we are Americans, refuse to use here. Babies cry and parents suffer in all countries. Babies die by their mothers’ hands in all countries. Stop blaming horrible things that are a dark part of the human condition on policy. It’s not always policy. This woman had all the leave, medical support, and family support that one could hope for. You’re seriously telling me that she would’ve been better off in any other country? She was sick. Sicker they she probably even knew. She was trying. Her family was trying. Mistakes were made. But it is not because of America’s policies. Sh!1t happens. In this case. it happened to an affluent white woman so you can’t blame America.

They likely sleep with their babies. I did with my third and it was great for my mental health. I followed the LLL advice for breastfeeding moms and decided it was safe enough.

Not that simplistic explanations work here. Of course there’s more to it. Like another poster said, there’s a huge space between insanity and cold blooded killer and that’s probably where the truth is.

OR they sleep train their babies and accept institutional knowledge from mothers, aunts, grandmothers who did it before them. I breastfed both of my babies for almost 2 years each. I never coslept a day with either of them and both were STTN 12 hours at 5.5 months. I was definitely not funtioning very well until I sleep trained them and it was imperative that I do so. I wasn't depressed or anxious but just so so tired. Once they were STTN it was so liberating to know that I only had to make it to 7pm each night and then I was getting 12 hours off and a full night's sleep. Disuading women from doing this is harmful to them. Yes, there are rare cases where babies can't be sleep-trained, but many families these days do not even try.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend had a post partum nervous breakdown at six months after weeks of insomnia triggered by baby sleep struggles. She tried to go on fmla but her boss forced her to quit instead with threatening action letters because she said she had ‘already taken too much maternity leave.’ This is the society we live in that tells moms they are too big a burden until some moms say ok i get it, I’m worthless, I will just kill my kids and myself. Which of you who are so disgusted or outraged at her has founght for universal maternity leave? Which of you has lobbied for safe affordable subsidized daycare? Or adequate (first world) maternal medical care? You are the disgusting ones, desperate to see a public lynching while this very minute there is an exhausted mom in the verge of crisis with no one to turn to. You are handmaid’s tale characters. Your righteousness is blasphemy.

This is dumb. You sleep train. Put the baby to bed at 7 and go back in at 6. That’s all it takes.

That’s why it’s hard for a manager to have empathy for a woman who is voluntarily getting up for a six month old baby.

Yeah I wonder if this plays a role in PPD too. I had a subordinate who was constantly complaining of complete exhaustion but was getting up 3, 4, 5, times a night with a 9+ month old baby (after taking 6 months of maternity leave) because she and her husband didn't let the baby cry, ever, for even a second, for any reason. The baby had never fallen asleep on his own in his entire life. I mentioned to her that we had sleep-trained our kids and they slept 12 hours a night at her baby's age (younger actually) and she looked at me like I was some sort of child abuser. The baby is now over 2 and I still don't think he sleeps well at all and she's still sort of a zombie.

I had 2 babies who were STTN 7-7 by about 4 months old (minus the occasional regression) with very little effort to sleep train. And then my third baby humbled me and had only STTN a handful of times by 9 months. Her room was right next to the older kids’ rooms so I couldn’t leave her to cry loudly for extended periods without waking them (which would then extend the time of getting everyone back to bed). And every time we found a long weekend or some break where we thought we could try some form of sleep training, the baby would get sick and we didn’t have the heart to let a sick baby cry. Our nanny even tried to help us get her on a better sleep schedule, but it took a full year to get some semblance of normal sleep.

Only in America would blame a mom of an infant for being tired because she should just be shutting her young child in a room for 11 hours and ignore their crying, so that she can prioritize work instead. We are a stand out this way in the industrialized world, caring more about workplace productivity than caregiving for babies.

Seriously? Tell me what they do in Italy. Sweden? Syria? Kenya? Peru? You don’t really mean to argue that there is a strict procedure that all new parents in those countries use to help young mothers get their babies to sleep that we, because we are Americans, refuse to use here. Babies cry and parents suffer in all countries. Babies die by their mothers’ hands in all countries. Stop blaming horrible things that are a dark part of the human condition on policy. It’s not always policy. This woman had all the leave, medical support, and family support that one could hope for. You’re seriously telling me that she would’ve been better off in any other country? She was sick. Sicker they she probably even knew. She was trying. Her family was trying. Mistakes were made. But it is not because of America’s policies. Sh!1t happens. In this case. it happened to an affluent white woman so you can’t blame America.

They likely sleep with their babies. I did with my third and it was great for my mental health. I followed the LLL advice for breastfeeding moms and decided it was safe enough.

Not that simplistic explanations work here. Of course there’s more to it. Like another poster said, there’s a huge space between insanity and cold blooded killer and that’s probably where the truth is.

Maybe. But I’m sure there are mothers in those countries who kill their children because of PPD, PPP, and other mental health issues. The point is that America’s policies are not to blame in this case. Maybe in other cases where a mother doesn’t have resources but not in this case. Not at all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how she was not diagnosed with postpartum depression or anxiety, yet she had suicidal ideation and an infant at home. What ruled it out as PPD/PPA and made it GAD instead? Also, she had a terrible reaction to zoloft. SSRIs can trigger mania and even psychosis in people with bipolar disorder. At any rate, her mental health sounds complicated and ambiguous. I made the mistake of watching the arraignment.

Providers make mistakes. Sometimes a lot of them.

Where did you see she had bipolar disorder?

Lindsay's Stan's have resorted to making things up because it's looking more and more like she was a cold blooded killer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very concerned to hear that McClean Hospital discharged her after only five days inpatient. That is far from ideal standard of care of post partum depression requiring inpatient treatment. When I used to be a prosecutor and I would commit patients involuntarily, I was always shocked in following the cases to see how quickly they would street people who were seriously mentally ill, but that was the state hospital. I once put a guy there whose family cut him down from a tree and revived him, he was dead but they restarted his heart with CPR, a miracle really. He was cognitively intact but obviously suicidally depressed and the state hospital discharged him in a week with SSRIs. SSRIs take weeks to reach full efficacy. But that’s our mental health system in this country.

I just don’t think this woman murdered her children with mens rea formed in a sane mind.

+100

also people are expecting that she woke up at the hospital and was herself as she was say a year ago and expect her to be acting that way but she is still within whatever mental illness is plaguing her right now. It may take her months to be more like herself, if ever at this point, and be able to process what has happened and what she did under this horrible state. Did you see the letter she wrote a friend at her baby shower? It’s posted on Reddit. I could have written that letter. This woman was not in her right state of mind and our mental health care system failed her. She shared her thoughts, got hospitalized and what was put on a new med and released?

And that's the issue you are projecting your own experience onto her. . You identify with her and thus believe you're alike in everything. You think I would not kill my kids unless I were seriously ill that must be the case for her

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I’m very concerned to hear that McClean Hospital discharged her after only five days inpatient. That is far from ideal standard of care of post partum depression requiring inpatient treatment. When I used to be a prosecutor and I would commit patients involuntarily, I was always shocked in following the cases to see how quickly they would street people who were seriously mentally ill, but that was the state hospital. I once put a guy there whose family cut him down from a tree and revived him, he was dead but they restarted his heart with CPR, a miracle really. He was cognitively intact but obviously suicidally depressed and the state hospital discharged him in a week with SSRIs. SSRIs take weeks to reach full efficacy. But that’s our mental health system in this country.

I just don’t think this woman murdered her children with mens rea formed in a sane mind.

Ah, this picture explains everything. Y’all see a white woman hugging her kid and relate to her. That’s the reason for all the mental gymnastics to defend her and “she couldn’t have plotted to murder those kids!” UMC white women everywhere are scared to death that one of them could just be a cold blooded killer and not a victim of mental illness and a failed healthcare system. Perpetual victims..

I just don't understand how you can read this story, including that she was by all accounts a great mom prior to being hospitalized with severe mental health issues after birth of her child, and decide that the most rational explanation is that she was in fact a cold-blooded killer pretending to be a normal, loving mom for years while waiting for her moment

+100

You don't want to believe she's a cold blooded killer be ausr she looks like you. Has a similar background to you. People like you don't do that you think. Not unless something snapped.
And I could give you a list pages long of " picture perfect parents" who abused and killed their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lindsay had been on leave since May and had 2 children prior to this newest one. She wasn’t lacking in leave or knowledge of how to get babies to sleep.

She checked herself into a psych hospital three months ago and has been on 12 different psych meds since. Her husband called her psych doctors the week before begging to help her as she was “like a zombie.” They were trying to get help. She was clearly losing her sanity. She might never get it back and probably doesn’t want to, I wouldn’t. He should have left his job entirely until she was out of crisis but we all know work is priority #1 in the US and taking leave is frowned upon. Now they have lost everything. No, there’s not enough support for parents, not enough childcare options, not enough mental healthcare or maternity and postpartum medical and psychological support. Maybe none of that could have stopped this tragedy. But we could certainly prevent others. The truth is we say ‘you chose to have a kid it’s all on you to deal with it, not my problem.’ Even in states where women don’t have that choice. Jobs punish you or fire you for having to take time to care for young kids. Paid leave is rare, short, and discouraged. No one in our society wants to pay any extra to support new parents.

Yet he left this" zombie" with the kids for 30 minutes. Didn't order in and didn't take the kids with him. Something isn't adding up here. It will all come out in trial

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. So she was sick enough and able to articulate/present symptoms in order to get her 12-13 drugs, and admitted to McLean? That much we know is true.

...but she *wasn't* articulating/presenting symptoms in order to get the PPA/PPD diagnosis? So the default conclusion is, welp, doctors got it wrong, she was psychotic, and she should walk after murdering her children?

I think she went to Women & Infants in Providence (and why there, btw - nowhere close to Duxbury?), they told her it was GAD only, and when she was told it wasn't PPA/PPD, she spiraled and that's when she self-presented at McLean. McLean (different health system, BTW) came to a a similar conclusion and released her when they deemed her to not be a danger to herself/anyone else.

I totally agree that nobody in their right mind would do what she did. However - if I'm on that jury (and I live in MA, just not in Plymouth County), I'm having a reallll hard time not trusting the experts that treated her and going with their assessment as legitimate. I can think that she had MH issues that don't absolve her of what she did or needing to serve justice for what she did.

A lot may hinge on your reaction to those experts when they testify. My guess is that a provider who diagnosed her with GAD only, with these results, is going to be quite defensive of that, including in ways that may be turnoffs to a jury.

After all, in the alternate theory, that person has to explain why they did not notice that this woman was a narcissist or a psychopath or whatever else is being speculated here. If that happened, it would be a pretty significant medical mistake itself.

Psychiatric patients in crisis are often routed away from closer hospitals and towards those with beds. I don't find the fact that she want to something other that the closest/closer hospital suspicious in any way.

Re: Providence. She probably wanted to be as far away from her work for various reasons.

NO. There is a special treatment facility in providence that is one of the only ones in the country. It allows a mom to receive treatment alongside her baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think she was a regular mom who had debilitating PPD after her 3rd child that turned into postpartum psychosis. It makes zero sense to me that she would commit this crime, in this way, if she was thinking rationally.

I think all the people insisting that she did this because she's an evil person are afraid to consider the possibility that an otherwise normal person can do something like this when suffering from a severe mental illness.

Yet her own team has moved away from using this as a defense.

Hundreds of moms have a form of mental illness very few actually kill their kids.

Very few people just snap and murder

Additionally the method used suggests a level of planning.

Let's be real you can't accept that she may have done this intentionally and of sound mind because she's the UMC standard and in your mind that means flawless and blameless

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My friend had a post partum nervous breakdown at six months after weeks of insomnia triggered by baby sleep struggles. She tried to go on fmla but her boss forced her to quit instead with threatening action letters because she said she had ‘already taken too much maternity leave.’ This is the society we live in that tells moms they are too big a burden until some moms say ok i get it, I’m worthless, I will just kill my kids and myself. Which of you who are so disgusted or outraged at her has founght for universal maternity leave? Which of you has lobbied for safe affordable subsidized daycare? Or adequate (first world) maternal medical care? You are the disgusting ones, desperate to see a public lynching while this very minute there is an exhausted mom in the verge of crisis with no one to turn to. You are handmaid’s tale characters. Your righteousness is blasphemy.

This is dumb. You sleep train. Put the baby to bed at 7 and go back in at 6. That’s all it takes.

That’s why it’s hard for a manager to have empathy for a woman who is voluntarily getting up for a six month old baby.

Yeah I wonder if this plays a role in PPD too. I had a subordinate who was constantly complaining of complete exhaustion but was getting up 3, 4, 5, times a night with a 9+ month old baby (after taking 6 months of maternity leave) because she and her husband didn't let the baby cry, ever, for even a second, for any reason. The baby had never fallen asleep on his own in his entire life. I mentioned to her that we had sleep-trained our kids and they slept 12 hours a night at her baby's age (younger actually) and she looked at me like I was some sort of child abuser. The baby is now over 2 and I still don't think he sleeps well at all and she's still sort of a zombie.

Some babies are bad sleepers, even after sleep training. Some parents don't feel comfortable with sleep training because there is a whole school of thought that sleep training is cruel and gives your child lifelong attachment problems (I don't agree with that, but many many people push that view and tell moms it's cruel to sleep train, including on this board). In other developed countries parents can take leave for the whole first year and so they have time to work through this stuff. But here, if you aren't performing at full capacity at work after 12 weeks you are a failure.

At many many jobs in the US, it's actually less than 12 weeks. Some jobs don't give any paid parental leave at all so some moms literally have to be back at work days after giving birth. Some jobs (including the job I had when I became a parent) only give 6 weeks leave. For me, only half of that 6 weeks was paid so if I didn't have enough $$ to get by I would've had to go back to work at 3 weeks post partum. Luckily, I had enough $ saved plus a spouse who was working that I could take more time off but many of my co-workers indeed had to return to work at 3 weeks post partum. It's insanity. It's a really terrible system we have here with very little support for parents.

Cool. Well we also earn much much higher salaries than in countries with more leave. Most people here think if you’re a mom who wants to stay home with kids then you should do that. But it shouldn’t be funded by taxpayers.

Regardless Lindsay was on month 8 of leave. That’s not what happened here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re sleep training, it could be one of her kids was especially challenging.

So we've gone from blaming dad.
To blaming the kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very concerned to hear that McClean Hospital discharged her after only five days inpatient. That is far from ideal standard of care of post partum depression requiring inpatient treatment. When I used to be a prosecutor and I would commit patients involuntarily, I was always shocked in following the cases to see how quickly they would street people who were seriously mentally ill, but that was the state hospital. I once put a guy there whose family cut him down from a tree and revived him, he was dead but they restarted his heart with CPR, a miracle really. He was cognitively intact but obviously suicidally depressed and the state hospital discharged him in a week with SSRIs. SSRIs take weeks to reach full efficacy. But that’s our mental health system in this country.

I just don’t think this woman murdered her children with mens rea formed in a sane mind.

Ah, this picture explains everything. Y’all see a white woman hugging her kid and relate to her. That’s the reason for all the mental gymnastics to defend her and “she couldn’t have plotted to murder those kids!” UMC white women everywhere are scared to death that one of them could just be a cold blooded killer and not a victim of mental illness and a failed healthcare system. Perpetual victims..

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very concerned to hear that McClean Hospital discharged her after only five days inpatient. That is far from ideal standard of care of post partum depression requiring inpatient treatment. When I used to be a prosecutor and I would commit patients involuntarily, I was always shocked in following the cases to see how quickly they would street people who were seriously mentally ill, but that was the state hospital. I once put a guy there whose family cut him down from a tree and revived him, he was dead but they restarted his heart with CPR, a miracle really. He was cognitively intact but obviously suicidally depressed and the state hospital discharged him in a week with SSRIs. SSRIs take weeks to reach full efficacy. But that’s our mental health system in this country.

I just don’t think this woman murdered her children with mens rea formed in a sane mind.

Ah, this picture explains everything. Y’all see a white woman hugging her kid and relate to her. That’s the reason for all the mental gymnastics to defend her and “she couldn’t have plotted to murder those kids!” UMC white women everywhere are scared to death that one of them could just be a cold blooded killer and not a victim of mental illness and a failed healthcare system. Perpetual victims..

100% this. But they will deny it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very concerned to hear that McClean Hospital discharged her after only five days inpatient. That is far from ideal standard of care of post partum depression requiring inpatient treatment. When I used to be a prosecutor and I would commit patients involuntarily, I was always shocked in following the cases to see how quickly they would street people who were seriously mentally ill, but that was the state hospital. I once put a guy there whose family cut him down from a tree and revived him, he was dead but they restarted his heart with CPR, a miracle really. He was cognitively intact but obviously suicidally depressed and the state hospital discharged him in a week with SSRIs. SSRIs take weeks to reach full efficacy. But that’s our mental health system in this country.

I just don’t think this woman murdered her children with mens rea formed in a sane mind.

Ah, this picture explains everything. Y’all see a white woman hugging her kid and relate to her. That’s the reason for all the mental gymnastics to defend her and “she couldn’t have plotted to murder those kids!” UMC white women everywhere are scared to death that one of them could just be a cold blooded killer and not a victim of mental illness and a failed healthcare system. Perpetual victims..

I just don't understand how you can read this story, including that she was by all accounts a great mom prior to being hospitalized with severe mental health issues after birth of her child, and decide that the most rational explanation is that she was in fact a cold-blooded killer pretending to be a normal, loving mom for years while waiting for her moment

+100

You don't want to believe she's a cold blooded killer be ausr she looks like you. Has a similar background to you. People like you don't do that you think. Not unless something snapped.
And I could give you a list pages long of " picture perfect parents" who abused and killed their kids.

This is really just not true. I do believe that. I understand personality disorders, crimes of passion etc and fully believe people “like me” can do horrible things without being in a psychotic episode. But I also believe there is usually some underlying trauma or mental illness for most people who commit these atrocities and the evidence to me suggests it is much more likely that postpartum mental illness played a huge role here an without it, it likely wouldn’t have happened and no, I do not think it is likely she is a calculated cold blooded killer in the way you describe. And I think most people aren’t. Things are so complex usually. And that doesn’t mean peope don’t need to be held accountable, I have not indicated that she shouldn’t be accountable but that I disagree with the assertion that she likely plotted and is secretly some abusive parent behind the scenes as you mention.

I agree with you, often in these cases you start seeing the hinges come off - what seemed perfect you start then hearing reports of DV incidents prior that no one knew about, or concerns from school, little things start to come out. For me that has not been the case here. The facts that have come out have continued to align with my understanding and experience of a family trying to manage serious postpartum mental illness. That’s all I’m saying.

Bias is incredibly real. I hear you. But my assumptions here are based more on my training in mental health and how I’ve seen it present in very real situations than in what you’re assuming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
People here also seem to have a perception of psychosis that is very inaccurate. Many have probably only interacted with severe mental illness with someone on the street with a particular type of psychosis happening. Sometimes delusions are quite quiet and impossible for the person experiencing them to determine what is happening. They are completely unaware. If she had fallen deeper it may explain why she had been raising flags earlier but stopped. Frankly based on my experience it all makes sense. The mental illness got worse and she was now in a state where she couldn’t decipher between which often looks like hiding it - she likely later would have said if this didn’t happen that she doesn’t really remember this time (now she might say that too but folks will be suspicious)

Thank you for this very cogent description. Since I fully believe that you're speaking from experience, I wonder if you would be willing to expand a bit on the bolded?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sounds like members of Lindsay’s Army of love are here and passionately defending a child murderer. Babies and children can be slaughtered but the opportunity to defend a homely, white, professionally unaccomplished, pill popping and attention seeking failure must never be squandered. The projection is real.

Gross, no, and no one is passionately defending her personally in the way that you're suggesting. Repulsive.

Yes, they are, vociferously and repeatedly. They’re repulsive.

+100. I can only wonder what kind of family life people like PP have. It can’t be good. With all these new details, only the lowest of the low and personality disordered individuals could defend or empathize with this woman. I can’t even type her name, I’m so horrified and disgusted by her acts and that’s as it should be. Society needs to stop normalizing and excusing psychopathic behavior.

This stuff revealed in the hearing is very disturbing. But I think people really want to reserve judgment because these murders are just so out of the norm. When Bryan Kohberger was arrested, that made sense - angry jealous stalker type. Once we found out about Chris Watts’ affair, that made sense - enraged husband who wanted a new life. (Though I personally believe he only meant to kill his wife, and only killed the kids because he was temporarily insane and thought they would be better off dead than without a mother).

Here, this just doesn’t make sense. If Lindsay regretted having kids, why not just leave her family? Why risk life in prison by murdering them? And if she did decide that murder was the only way, why do it in this manner? She could’ve at least tried the Susan Smith route. Or a car accident, carbon monoxide poisoning, house fire, etc. Why kill them in a way that directly implicates her? And people on here are saying that she didn’t really intend to kill herself because she jumped out a window. But she’s paralyzed from the waist down, so I think she did actually want to die. She could’ve just taken a bottle of benedryl if she really want to “pretend”. It just doesn’t make sense! Either she’s the dumbest killer ever or she really was out of her mind.

At any rate, some of y’all are way too angry with her. Like the pp who said she’s professionally unaccomplished. Way to crap on an entire group of l&d nurses! Are they all professionally unaccomplished?! And she’s not homely. She’s a solid 7, and an 8 in some of her pictures. Of course Ted Bundy was a total smoke show so that doesn’t mean anything… but why go there? Y’all are weird.

She’s a nurse. She would know just how lethal Benedryl is. You don’t have to take that much to die. Regardless I don’t think that people are going to have a lot of sympathy. Even if you are hearing voices you know it’s wrong to act.

I'm a nurse, including working for many years in an ICU at Hopkins. I would have no idea how much Benadryl (or even morphine) I'd take if I wanted to kill myself. As in, I wouldn't even know what dose I'd start with. It's not exactly something you're taught in nursing school or on the job.

I'm actually scared that you are a nurse.

You are a complete moron.

I'm not the one who committed to a career in healthcare and doesn't realize how dangerous Benadryl