Why do getting into elite universities even matter at this point?

[Anonymous]

I am curious, because I am of an Asian descent and when I was applying to universities 15 years I already knew I would not get into any Ivys due to racial discrimination despite near perfect SAT scores and a full stack of AP 5 scores, national merit and EC. Most of my friends were in the same boat, so we said f it, we just go engineering/STEM at a state school, We'll make more.

The case is even more true today than it was 15 years ago. Moreover, most STEM isn't even competitive today due to the mismatch of supply and demand. Outside of maybe chemical engineering and computer science, the average college salary is lower than that of trades. You make more as a carpenter, electrician or heck even general contractor than most college majors, without going into 6 figures worth of debt.

My grandparents were professors, my parents had masters degrees, I only have an undergrad and I am seriously debating if my kids should even go to college at this point. You don't need a CS degree from Stanford to get a good developer job, a year of coding academies is enough in most cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am curious, because I am of an Asian descent and when I was applying to universities 15 years I already knew I would not get into any Ivys due to racial discrimination despite near perfect SAT scores and a full stack of AP 5 scores, national merit and EC. Most of my friends were in the same boat, so we said f it, we just go engineering/STEM at a state school, We'll make more.

The case is even more true today than it was 15 years ago. Moreover, most STEM isn't even competitive today due to the mismatch of supply and demand. Outside of maybe chemical engineering and computer science, the average college salary is lower than that of trades. You make more as a carpenter, electrician or heck even general contractor than most college majors, without going into 6 figures worth of debt.

My grandparents were professors, my parents had masters degrees, I only have an undergrad and I am seriously debating if my kids should even go to college at this point. You don't need a CS degree from Stanford to get a good developer job, a year of coding academies is enough in most cases.

So much is wrong with your post, but I will limit myself to the misinformation I find most dangerous:

Been in tech 30 years, most hiring programmers. Coding Academies are no substitute for a strong CS degree. Not even close. Don't need to be a "prestigious" one, just rigorous and known.

It's not that you won't get a job - it just that you won't be as good at it and won't advance and have the opportunities the smart CS grads will. No debate about that.

[Anonymous]

Its not the stem piece. Its the networking piece and being plucked from school by a plum company who recruits there for consulting etc. All those credentials as very who knows who and can shake hands and talk about the good days at wherever. Yes still.

[Anonymous]

If your kid wants to be a professor or to work for a very narrow set of employers it matters, otherwise it doesn't assuming that you aren't talking about getting a degree from Strayer as opposed to Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Well, if your sole criterion for the value of your education is how easily you will get a coding job then I guess you’ve got it all figured out. Congrats.

[Anonymous]

It really depends on what you think the purpose of attending a university is. If you view it as a form of vocational training to get you a job (which most people do), then I don't think an elite school is better than a state flagship. The network is helpful from an elite school, but that diminishes over time unless you have significant career transitions in mind.

But the learning experience is different, because of peer group, class size, pedagogical approach, access to faculty, etc.

-- Multiple HYPS degrees married to someone with multiple public flagship degrees in the same field. He earns 2x what I do, but I have a lot more flexibility and confidence in my ability to find new roles. (In other words, career outcomes are difficult to compare based on salary alone...and that's not the only thing I got out of my education anyway.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am curious, because I am of an Asian descent and when I was applying to universities 15 years I already knew I would not get into any Ivys due to racial discrimination despite near perfect SAT scores and a full stack of AP 5 scores, national merit and EC. Most of my friends were in the same boat, so we said f it, we just go engineering/STEM at a state school, We'll make more.

The case is even more true today than it was 15 years ago. Moreover, most STEM isn't even competitive today due to the mismatch of supply and demand. Outside of maybe chemical engineering and computer science, the average college salary is lower than that of trades. You make more as a carpenter, electrician or heck even general contractor than most college majors, without going into 6 figures worth of debt.

My grandparents were professors, my parents had masters degrees, I only have an undergrad and I am seriously debating if my kids should even go to college at this point. You don't need a CS degree from Stanford to get a good developer job, a year of coding academies is enough in most cases.

I work in AI. There is no one we hire that doesn't have a CS degree from a highly ranked program. It really depends on what you mean by "good developer job". That being said, in a previous life one of the most talented DevOps engineers I worked with's highest degree was a GED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It really depends on what you think the purpose of attending a university is. If you view it as a form of vocational training to get you a job (which most people do), then I don't think an elite school is better than a state flagship. The network is helpful from an elite school, but that diminishes over time unless you have significant career transitions in mind.

But the learning experience is different, because of peer group, class size, pedagogical approach, access to faculty, etc.

-- Multiple HYPS degrees married to someone with multiple public flagship degrees in the same field. He earns 2x what I do, but I have a lot more flexibility and confidence in my ability to find new roles. (In other words, career outcomes are difficult to compare based on salary alone...and that's not the only thing I got out of my education anyway.)

Care to share more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious, because I am of an Asian descent and when I was applying to universities 15 years I already knew I would not get into any Ivys due to racial discrimination despite near perfect SAT scores and a full stack of AP 5 scores, national merit and EC. Most of my friends were in the same boat, so we said f it, we just go engineering/STEM at a state school, We'll make more.

The case is even more true today than it was 15 years ago. Moreover, most STEM isn't even competitive today due to the mismatch of supply and demand. Outside of maybe chemical engineering and computer science, the average college salary is lower than that of trades. You make more as a carpenter, electrician or heck even general contractor than most college majors, without going into 6 figures worth of debt.

My grandparents were professors, my parents had masters degrees, I only have an undergrad and I am seriously debating if my kids should even go to college at this point. You don't need a CS degree from Stanford to get a good developer job, a year of coding academies is enough in most cases.

So much is wrong with your post, but I will limit myself to the misinformation I find most dangerous:

Been in tech 30 years, most hiring programmers. Coding Academies are no substitute for a strong CS degree. Not even close. Don't need to be a "prestigious" one, just rigorous and known.

It's not that you won't get a job - it just that you won't be as good at it and won't advance and have the opportunities the smart CS grads will. No debate about that.

The coding certificates aren't enough and you do need a CS degree but one from an IVY vs. State school makes little difference as its more about knowledge and skill. My spouse went to a no name college for CS and is doing as well as others from many other schools.

For some professions, like medical, finance and big law, it matters, but for most other professions it doesn't. No one cares where I went to college and graduate school. Only I had the degrees and licensure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious, because I am of an Asian descent and when I was applying to universities 15 years I already knew I would not get into any Ivys due to racial discrimination despite near perfect SAT scores and a full stack of AP 5 scores, national merit and EC. Most of my friends were in the same boat, so we said f it, we just go engineering/STEM at a state school, We'll make more.

The case is even more true today than it was 15 years ago. Moreover, most STEM isn't even competitive today due to the mismatch of supply and demand. Outside of maybe chemical engineering and computer science, the average college salary is lower than that of trades. You make more as a carpenter, electrician or heck even general contractor than most college majors, without going into 6 figures worth of debt.

My grandparents were professors, my parents had masters degrees, I only have an undergrad and I am seriously debating if my kids should even go to college at this point. You don't need a CS degree from Stanford to get a good developer job, a year of coding academies is enough in most cases.

I work in AI. There is no one we hire that doesn't have a CS degree from a highly ranked program. It really depends on what you mean by "good developer job". That being said, in a previous life one of the most talented DevOps engineers I worked with's highest degree was a GED.

Ok, but would you pick the Stanford CS over a Berkeley CS because? My whole point is one is about 250k more expensive than the other

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious, because I am of an Asian descent and when I was applying to universities 15 years I already knew I would not get into any Ivys due to racial discrimination despite near perfect SAT scores and a full stack of AP 5 scores, national merit and EC. Most of my friends were in the same boat, so we said f it, we just go engineering/STEM at a state school, We'll make more.

The case is even more true today than it was 15 years ago. Moreover, most STEM isn't even competitive today due to the mismatch of supply and demand. Outside of maybe chemical engineering and computer science, the average college salary is lower than that of trades. You make more as a carpenter, electrician or heck even general contractor than most college majors, without going into 6 figures worth of debt.

My grandparents were professors, my parents had masters degrees, I only have an undergrad and I am seriously debating if my kids should even go to college at this point. You don't need a CS degree from Stanford to get a good developer job, a year of coding academies is enough in most cases.

I work in AI. There is no one we hire that doesn't have a CS degree from a highly ranked program. It really depends on what you mean by "good developer job". That being said, in a previous life one of the most talented DevOps engineers I worked with's highest degree was a GED.

You keep posting that but plenty of CS folks aren't form your approved schools and are doing very well, maybe even better than your engineers. My spouse has no problem getting, keeping jobs. There are other things equally as important. You need a degree but from where doesn't matter as much as the degree, skill and knowledge.

[Anonymous]

The value of going to college is about how to think critically and broaden your views. You don’t need to get a BS to learn programming, just like a carpenter doesn’t need to go to Stanford to figure out how to hammer a nail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am curious, because I am of an Asian descent and when I was applying to universities 15 years I already knew I would not get into any Ivys due to racial discrimination despite near perfect SAT scores and a full stack of AP 5 scores, national merit and EC. Most of my friends were in the same boat, so we said f it, we just go engineering/STEM at a state school, We'll make more.

The case is even more true today than it was 15 years ago. Moreover, most STEM isn't even competitive today due to the mismatch of supply and demand. Outside of maybe chemical engineering and computer science, the average college salary is lower than that of trades. You make more as a carpenter, electrician or heck even general contractor than most college majors, without going into 6 figures worth of debt.

My grandparents were professors, my parents had masters degrees, I only have an undergrad and I am seriously debating if my kids should even go to college at this point. You don't need a CS degree from Stanford to get a good developer job, a year of coding academies is enough in most cases.

I find this sad because I have Asian friends whose kids got into and attended Ivies during this time period. You cheated yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious, because I am of an Asian descent and when I was applying to universities 15 years I already knew I would not get into any Ivys due to racial discrimination despite near perfect SAT scores and a full stack of AP 5 scores, national merit and EC. Most of my friends were in the same boat, so we said f it, we just go engineering/STEM at a state school, We'll make more.

The case is even more true today than it was 15 years ago. Moreover, most STEM isn't even competitive today due to the mismatch of supply and demand. Outside of maybe chemical engineering and computer science, the average college salary is lower than that of trades. You make more as a carpenter, electrician or heck even general contractor than most college majors, without going into 6 figures worth of debt.

My grandparents were professors, my parents had masters degrees, I only have an undergrad and I am seriously debating if my kids should even go to college at this point. You don't need a CS degree from Stanford to get a good developer job, a year of coding academies is enough in most cases.

I work in AI. There is no one we hire that doesn't have a CS degree from a highly ranked program. It really depends on what you mean by "good developer job". That being said, in a previous life one of the most talented DevOps engineers I worked with's highest degree was a GED.

Ok, but would you pick the Stanford CS over a Berkeley CS because? My whole point is one is about 250k more expensive than the other

Is one 250k more than the other? For most OOS Stanford is probably cheaper because need will be met with grants. Without aid, Cal has a 68k a year cost and Stanford a 78k, but you are much more likely to be able to get your classes to graduate Stanford in 4 years.

[Anonymous]

So don’t send your kid to college. And convince yourself you’ve stumbled upon some hidden truth. Go have a cookie.