Why do getting into elite universities even matter at this point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends on what you think the purpose of attending a university is. If you view it as a form of vocational training to get you a job (which most people do), then I don't think an elite school is better than a state flagship. The network is helpful from an elite school, but that diminishes over time unless you have significant career transitions in mind.

But the learning experience is different, because of peer group, class size, pedagogical approach, access to faculty, etc.

-- Multiple HYPS degrees married to someone with multiple public flagship degrees in the same field. He earns 2x what I do, but I have a lot more flexibility and confidence in my ability to find new roles. (In other words, career outcomes are difficult to compare based on salary alone...and that's not the only thing I got out of my education anyway.)

Care to share more?

You meet higher quality people the higher you go up the education chain. Go to a local CC, your circle of friends will be limited. Nothing wrong with CC and its people. But there’s no compelling reason to limit your circle of acquittances where all you do is gripe and share life’s miseries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So don’t send your kid to college. And convince yourself you’ve stumbled upon some hidden truth. Go have a cookie.

Yawwwn. Not clever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious, because I am of an Asian descent and when I was applying to universities 15 years I already knew I would not get into any Ivys due to racial discrimination despite near perfect SAT scores and a full stack of AP 5 scores, national merit and EC. Most of my friends were in the same boat, so we said f it, we just go engineering/STEM at a state school, We'll make more.

The case is even more true today than it was 15 years ago. Moreover, most STEM isn't even competitive today due to the mismatch of supply and demand. Outside of maybe chemical engineering and computer science, the average college salary is lower than that of trades. You make more as a carpenter, electrician or heck even general contractor than most college majors, without going into 6 figures worth of debt.

My grandparents were professors, my parents had masters degrees, I only have an undergrad and I am seriously debating if my kids should even go to college at this point. You don't need a CS degree from Stanford to get a good developer job, a year of coding academies is enough in most cases.

I work in AI. There is no one we hire that doesn't have a CS degree from a highly ranked program. It really depends on what you mean by "good developer job". That being said, in a previous life one of the most talented DevOps engineers I worked with's highest degree was a GED.

You keep posting that but plenty of CS folks aren't form your approved schools and are doing very well, maybe even better than your engineers. My spouse has no problem getting, keeping jobs. There are other things equally as important. You need a degree but from where doesn't matter as much as the degree, skill and knowledge.

I really would like to hear the story from an ivy grad. Do the complain about their ivy education bc a CS degree is the “same” all over? Are they complaining about the cost? Without their input, this sounds like sour grapes.

The average CS salary out of UC is $80,000. I don’t know if these people receive stock grants and signing on bonuses. The few ivy CS grad total compensations out of college i’ve seen approach $200,000.

[Anonymous]

And what if your kids don’t want to major in or work in CS? Or even don’t view education purely as vocational training? I’m wondering if this is a troll post, since it starts with some pretty racist assumptions that either the OP never had the courage to question and/or doesn’t expect anyone else to question either. Given that there is no Ivy League college without a significant number of Asian students, it’s really on you if you decided that you wouldn’t even apply to see if you might make the cut. So you never know what might have happened. That lack of curiosity and drive alone might have scuttled your application, though, so perhaps you made the right pragmatic decision for yourself.

1. Start with an assumption embedded in a larger question.
2. Discuss the larger question without directly acknowledging the presence of the unquestioned assumption.
3. Pat yourself on the back for your work normalizing the assumption.

[Anonymous]

.Well, I think grad school is the new college - so unless my kids get into an ivy or other really good school - I'll like really encourage them to go to state college and then grad school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The average CS salary out of UC is $80,000. I don’t know if these people receive stock grants and signing on bonuses. The few ivy CS grad total compensations out of college i’ve seen approach $200,000.

now this is trolling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The average CS salary out of UC is $80,000. I don’t know if these people receive stock grants and signing on bonuses. The few ivy CS grad total compensations
out of college i’ve seen approach $200,000.

now this is trolling

Go to level fyi - you can see entry level salaries, stock options, signings on bonuses. For FAANG or equivalents, the entry level total compensation approach $200,000. A few actual numbers i’ve seen for new ivy grads are consistent with level fyi. Now, what I am not certain is what type of grads are hired for these positions. I am pretty sure not all ivy CS grads are hired at $200,000. I am also pretty sure many of these positions are filled by state university grads simply because 99.5% of all college grads are non-ivies. Maybe someone with IT experience in hiring can explain better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Is one 250k more than the other? For most OOS Stanford is probably cheaper because need will be met with grants. Without aid, Cal has a 68k a year cost and Stanford a 78k, but you are much more likely to be able to get your classes to graduate Stanford in 4 years.

Berkeley has a higher 4-Year Graduation Rate than Stanford.
(please see https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The average CS salary out of UC is $80,000. I don’t know if these people receive stock grants and signing on bonuses. The few ivy CS grad total compensations
out of college i’ve seen approach $200,000.

now this is trolling

Go to level fyi - you can see entry level salaries, stock options, signings on bonuses. For FAANG or equivalents, the entry level total compensation approach $200,000. A few actual numbers i’ve seen for new ivy grads are consistent with level fyi. Now, what I am not certain is what type of grads are hired for these positions. I am pretty sure not all ivy CS grads are hired at $200,000. I am also pretty sure many of these positions are filled by state university grads simply because 99.5% of all college grads are non-ivies. Maybe someone with IT experience in hiring can explain better.

level doesn't show which school you went to. I am not going to respond to the blatant trolling. There is no difference in pay scale between top public and ivy cs majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The average CS salary out of UC is $80,000. I don’t know if these people receive stock grants and signing on bonuses. The few ivy CS grad total compensations
out of college i’ve seen approach $200,000.

now this is trolling

Go to level fyi - you can see entry level salaries, stock options, signings on bonuses. For FAANG or equivalents, the entry level total compensation approach $200,000. A few actual numbers i’ve seen for new ivy grads are consistent with level fyi. Now, what I am not certain is what type of grads are hired for these positions. I am pretty sure not all ivy CS grads are hired at $200,000. I am also pretty sure many of these positions are filled by state university grads simply because 99.5% of all college grads are non-ivies. Maybe someone with IT experience in hiring can explain better.

level doesn't show which school you went to. I am not going to respond to the blatant trolling. There is no difference in pay scale between top public and ivy cs majors.

If you don’t know, move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:.Well, I think grad school is the new college - so unless my kids get into an ivy or other really good school - I'll like really encourage them to go to state college and then grad school!

This has been the case for more than 25 years.

Once NAFTA happened, we became more of a white collar economy. That requires more education, generally, to be successful. Generally.

[Anonymous]

I totally get what your saying. If you go to a lesser ranked school or do a coding bootcamp, you can get a job in tech. Noone is denying this. However, there isn't the developed pipeline from CS departments to top tech companies/ grad programs that exists at top universities. Take Berkeley for example. According to their CS class of 2017 career survey, 8% of respondents were working at Amazon and another 11% were working at Google. If you pass your classes at these programs, you are guaranteed a great job in tech. This just simply isn't the case at lesser known schools. Companies actively seek Cal,Stanford,etc grads while you will need to work really hard to get an interview. Its doable, but thats just the unfortunate reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is one 250k more than the other? For most OOS Stanford is probably cheaper because need will be met with grants. Without aid, Cal has a 68k a year cost and Stanford a 78k, but you are much more likely to be able to get your classes to graduate Stanford in 4 years.

Berkeley has a higher 4-Year Graduation Rate than Stanford.
(please see https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate)

For Stanford, roughly 14% of the undergrad class (based on 2018 numbers at least) are pursuing coterms ie joint bachelors/masters as a terminal degree, stretching their grad date. Multiple others take a pause for startups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The average CS salary out of UC is $80,000. I don’t know if these people receive stock grants and signing on bonuses. The few ivy CS grad total compensations
out of college i’ve seen approach $200,000.

now this is trolling

Go to level fyi - you can see entry level salaries, stock options, signings on bonuses. For FAANG or equivalents, the entry level total compensation approach $200,000. A few actual numbers i’ve seen for new ivy grads are consistent with level fyi. Now, what I am not certain is what type of grads are hired for these positions. I am pretty sure not all ivy CS grads are hired at $200,000. I am also pretty sure many of these positions are filled by state university grads simply because 99.5% of all college grads are non-ivies. Maybe someone with IT experience in hiring can explain better.

No, it’s not. My spouse works for one of these. Most are not from ivys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I totally get what your saying. If you go to a lesser ranked school or do a coding bootcamp, you can get a job in tech. Noone is denying this. However, there isn't the developed pipeline from CS departments to top tech companies/ grad programs that exists at top universities. Take Berkeley for example. According to their CS class of 2017 career survey, 8% of respondents were working at Amazon and another 11% were working at Google. If you pass your classes at these programs, you are guaranteed a great job in tech. This just simply isn't the case at lesser known schools. Companies actively seek Cal,Stanford,etc grads while you will need to work really hard to get an interview. Its doable, but thats just the unfortunate reality.

Hum no. Have you done an interview at one of these companies. It’s not easy to get a job and many, some of whom would be good get denied. My spouse went to a no name school. Stop making up stuff.