Hayfield Football Coach Fired

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting prior post as it explains what is specifically not allowed. Families can and do move in and out of communities all the time. Rule 27-9-2 is what is not allowed. By way of another example at a different school, found to violate this rule years ago because, among other things, was letting 8th grades dress in school uniforms and be on field during games, etc.

Anonymous wrote:As an interested third party in the Hayfield situation, I don’t think VHSL would be approaching this as “transfer violations”. As we are told by Hayfield insiders, the students have all been cleared. However, I believe the rule that seems like is broken is VHSL 27-9-1 for PROSELYTIZING, and specifically rule 27-9-2 #4 below. I have pasted the entire section if you don’t want to look it up yourselves. This would also be why there would be not forfeiture of games as there are no issues with the individuals, but that Hayfield has broken the letter and spirit of this rule and subject to disciplinary action as deemed appropriate.

27-9-1 PROSELYTIZING RULE-No member school or group of individuals representing the school shall subject a student from another school to undue influence by encouraging him/her to transfer from one school to another for League activities.

27-9-2 Interpretation: The appropriate District Committee shall decide what constitutes undue influence on the basis of the evidence presented in each case. Undue influence has generally been interpreted to mean an act by any person or group connected with the school or not connected with a school to persuade a student to enroll in a school outside the areas in which he/she resides or persuade his/her parents or guardian to move to the areas of another school. Some specific examples of undue influence are:
(1) Being asked to move by a member of the school faculty.
(2) Being asked to move by a booster organization or a member of such an organization.
(3) Being given tuition, free text books, allowance for transportation or consideration not afforded other students, athletic or nonathletic.
(4) Any other evidence that a transfer or enrollment was made because of athletic ability.

27-9-3 Penalty: Any school adjudged guilty of bringing such undue influence to bear upon a student through any individual connected with the school, either directly or indirectly, shall be subject to such disciplinary action as the appropriate District Committee or interDistrict Committee may impose.

In my opinion, this Hayfield season is the epitome of why this PROSELYTIZING rule exists, and again, in my opinion represents one of the major goals of the VHSL, which is 'fair play' between all high schools in Virginia. All high schools are not recruiting, and while some may do it on occasion with a kid or two every year, that is very hard to prove whether why one or two kids have transferred. When a high school, in the first year of a head coach coming to the school, gets ~20 kids from his former (state champion) high school, in addition to 2-3 other transfers from outside the county (private and public), with the majority transferring within a couple months of Hayfield announcing the new coach. If it looks, walks, and talks like a duck - it usually is (i.e if it looks, walks, and talk like recruiting, it usually is), and I am assuming VHSL has further evidence of this and why they are recommending the multi-year ban.

Well the problem is that the rule hasn’t been enforced. If you have coaches with teams ranked just as high as Hayfield doing this and those schools aren’t being penalized, it looks like Hayfield is being targeted.

Who else is doing this? Again, if you know and have specifics to your claim, it sounds like VHSL is listening. This might be the time to nail everybody. But so far all anyone gives as proof are a couple of names from decades past.

I mean everybody speeds. Not everyone gets caught. But most people would agree that when you’re going 95mph in a 45moh zone, you alhave broken the rules and should be disciplined!

Madison is guilty, Battlefield is guilty, Patriot is guilty, Stone Bridge is guilty, South County is even guilty of this.

Westfield is doing it too. And there are a bunch of local basketball programs guilty of this as well.

Yes, I heard that Hayfield’s basketball program has been recruiting for years as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting prior post as it explains what is specifically not allowed. Families can and do move in and out of communities all the time. Rule 27-9-2 is what is not allowed. By way of another example at a different school, found to violate this rule years ago because, among other things, was letting 8th grades dress in school uniforms and be on field during games, etc.

Anonymous wrote:As an interested third party in the Hayfield situation, I don’t think VHSL would be approaching this as “transfer violations”. As we are told by Hayfield insiders, the students have all been cleared. However, I believe the rule that seems like is broken is VHSL 27-9-1 for PROSELYTIZING, and specifically rule 27-9-2 #4 below. I have pasted the entire section if you don’t want to look it up yourselves. This would also be why there would be not forfeiture of games as there are no issues with the individuals, but that Hayfield has broken the letter and spirit of this rule and subject to disciplinary action as deemed appropriate.

27-9-1 PROSELYTIZING RULE-No member school or group of individuals representing the school shall subject a student from another school to undue influence by encouraging him/her to transfer from one school to another for League activities.

27-9-2 Interpretation: The appropriate District Committee shall decide what constitutes undue influence on the basis of the evidence presented in each case. Undue influence has generally been interpreted to mean an act by any person or group connected with the school or not connected with a school to persuade a student to enroll in a school outside the areas in which he/she resides or persuade his/her parents or guardian to move to the areas of another school. Some specific examples of undue influence are:
(1) Being asked to move by a member of the school faculty.
(2) Being asked to move by a booster organization or a member of such an organization.
(3) Being given tuition, free text books, allowance for transportation or consideration not afforded other students, athletic or nonathletic.
(4) Any other evidence that a transfer or enrollment was made because of athletic ability.

27-9-3 Penalty: Any school adjudged guilty of bringing such undue influence to bear upon a student through any individual connected with the school, either directly or indirectly, shall be subject to such disciplinary action as the appropriate District Committee or interDistrict Committee may impose.

In my opinion, this Hayfield season is the epitome of why this PROSELYTIZING rule exists, and again, in my opinion represents one of the major goals of the VHSL, which is 'fair play' between all high schools in Virginia. All high schools are not recruiting, and while some may do it on occasion with a kid or two every year, that is very hard to prove whether why one or two kids have transferred. When a high school, in the first year of a head coach coming to the school, gets ~20 kids from his former (state champion) high school, in addition to 2-3 other transfers from outside the county (private and public), with the majority transferring within a couple months of Hayfield announcing the new coach. If it looks, walks, and talks like a duck - it usually is (i.e if it looks, walks, and talk like recruiting, it usually is), and I am assuming VHSL has further evidence of this and why they are recommending the multi-year ban.

Well the problem is that the rule hasn’t been enforced. If you have coaches with teams ranked just as high as Hayfield doing this and those schools aren’t being penalized, it looks like Hayfield is being targeted.

Who else is doing this? Again, if you know and have specifics to your claim, it sounds like VHSL is listening. This might be the time to nail everybody. But so far all anyone gives as proof are a couple of names from decades past.

I mean everybody speeds. Not everyone gets caught. But most people would agree that when you’re going 95mph in a 45moh zone, you alhave broken the rules and should be disciplined!

Madison is guilty, Battlefield is guilty, Patriot is guilty, Stone Bridge is guilty, South County is even guilty of this.

Westfield is doing it too. And there are a bunch of local basketball programs guilty of this as well.

Yes, I heard that Hayfield’s basketball program has been recruiting for years as well.

Me in august: recruiting literally happens at every school in most of the big sports

Everyone in august: it does not!

Two posters: so recruiting happens at Westfield and hayfield and also in basketball

Me: damn that’s interesting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting prior post as it explains what is specifically not allowed. Families can and do move in and out of communities all the time. Rule 27-9-2 is what is not allowed. By way of another example at a different school, found to violate this rule years ago because, among other things, was letting 8th grades dress in school uniforms and be on field during games, etc.

Anonymous wrote:As an interested third party in the Hayfield situation, I don’t think VHSL would be approaching this as “transfer violations”. As we are told by Hayfield insiders, the students have all been cleared. However, I believe the rule that seems like is broken is VHSL 27-9-1 for PROSELYTIZING, and specifically rule 27-9-2 #4 below. I have pasted the entire section if you don’t want to look it up yourselves. This would also be why there would be not forfeiture of games as there are no issues with the individuals, but that Hayfield has broken the letter and spirit of this rule and subject to disciplinary action as deemed appropriate.

27-9-1 PROSELYTIZING RULE-No member school or group of individuals representing the school shall subject a student from another school to undue influence by encouraging him/her to transfer from one school to another for League activities.

27-9-2 Interpretation: The appropriate District Committee shall decide what constitutes undue influence on the basis of the evidence presented in each case. Undue influence has generally been interpreted to mean an act by any person or group connected with the school or not connected with a school to persuade a student to enroll in a school outside the areas in which he/she resides or persuade his/her parents or guardian to move to the areas of another school. Some specific examples of undue influence are:
(1) Being asked to move by a member of the school faculty.
(2) Being asked to move by a booster organization or a member of such an organization.
(3) Being given tuition, free text books, allowance for transportation or consideration not afforded other students, athletic or nonathletic.
(4) Any other evidence that a transfer or enrollment was made because of athletic ability.

27-9-3 Penalty: Any school adjudged guilty of bringing such undue influence to bear upon a student through any individual connected with the school, either directly or indirectly, shall be subject to such disciplinary action as the appropriate District Committee or interDistrict Committee may impose.

In my opinion, this Hayfield season is the epitome of why this PROSELYTIZING rule exists, and again, in my opinion represents one of the major goals of the VHSL, which is 'fair play' between all high schools in Virginia. All high schools are not recruiting, and while some may do it on occasion with a kid or two every year, that is very hard to prove whether why one or two kids have transferred. When a high school, in the first year of a head coach coming to the school, gets ~20 kids from his former (state champion) high school, in addition to 2-3 other transfers from outside the county (private and public), with the majority transferring within a couple months of Hayfield announcing the new coach. If it looks, walks, and talks like a duck - it usually is (i.e if it looks, walks, and talk like recruiting, it usually is), and I am assuming VHSL has further evidence of this and why they are recommending the multi-year ban.

Well the problem is that the rule hasn’t been enforced. If you have coaches with teams ranked just as high as Hayfield doing this and those schools aren’t being penalized, it looks like Hayfield is being targeted.

Who else is doing this? Again, if you know and have specifics to your claim, it sounds like VHSL is listening. This might be the time to nail everybody. But so far all anyone gives as proof are a couple of names from decades past.

I mean everybody speeds. Not everyone gets caught. But most people would agree that when you’re going 95mph in a 45moh zone, you alhave broken the rules and should be disciplined!

Madison is guilty, Battlefield is guilty, Patriot is guilty, Stone Bridge is guilty, South County is even guilty of this.

Westfield is doing it too. And there are a bunch of local basketball programs guilty of this as well.

Yes, I heard that Hayfield’s basketball program has been recruiting for years as well.

Me in august: recruiting literally happens at every school in most of the big sports

Everyone in august: it does not!

Two posters: so recruiting happens at Westfield and hayfield and also in basketball

Me: damn that’s interesting

Proving recruiting is extremely difficult. Hayfield and the families involved made it very easy for all of us with eyes and ears, and more importantly for VHSL to prove.

[Anonymous]

Where's the proof it happened at those other schools you are trying to deag down into the mud with Hayfield.

Show us the many players who were on another roster last year who played for a school you are pointing a finger at this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My question is who admits the kids into the school. I’m not placing blame but asking a question, the coach only does just that, even if he has people try and attend, do they not go through an admissions process.

I’ve been saying along that it’s on the registrar to determine the students eligibility to attend the school. Then it’s the athletic director that determines if they meet age and academic requirements.

If the violation is for recruiting, the residency is not the issue. All the players could have moved and have 100% full single family home residency and could still be a violation of the recruiting rules that someone posted earlier.

“Recruiting” would still be hard to prove (imo) if they meet all the other requirements that say they are legitimate as far as where they live. If I want to play for coach X and I move and take whatever necessary measures it takes for my kid to potentially get free education, why wouldn’t I. If they can’t pinpoint and say Overton told me to move(which then I’m looking at the parents, as how can he “force”) then I get it, otherwise it’s all speculation this is more about the parents moving than anything else, because a parent can always say no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where's the proof it happened at those other schools you are trying to deag down into the mud with Hayfield.

Show us the many players who were on another roster last year who played for a school you are pointing a finger at this year.

Different poster here. After the playoffs are done I will come back here and name the school that just got a bunch of new players very similar to Hayfield. I know for a fact kids transferred there just to play football.

[Anonymous]

An FCPS HS with as many transfers as Hayfield?

[Anonymous]

This is honestly more interesting than the presidential election lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My question is who admits the kids into the school. I’m not placing blame but asking a question, the coach only does just that, even if he has people try and attend, do they not go through an admissions process.

I’ve been saying along that it’s on the registrar to determine the students eligibility to attend the school. Then it’s the athletic director that determines if they meet age and academic requirements.

If the violation is for recruiting, the residency is not the issue. All the players could have moved and have 100% full single family home residency and could still be a violation of the recruiting rules that someone posted earlier.

“Recruiting” would still be hard to prove (imo) if they meet all the other requirements that say they are legitimate as far as where they live. If I want to play for coach X and I move and take whatever necessary measures it takes for my kid to potentially get free education, why wouldn’t I. If they can’t pinpoint and say Overton told me to move(which then I’m looking at the parents, as how can he “force”) then I get it, otherwise it’s all speculation this is more about the parents moving than anything else, because a parent can always say no

Some of the kids and families were posting online they were moving for the coach, period. At best they would have had to try and back track those statements. Lots of Overton fans weren’t smart about what they posted online and lots of not fans noticed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where's the proof it happened at those other schools you are trying to deag down into the mud with Hayfield.

Show us the many players who were on another roster last year who played for a school you are pointing a finger at this year.

Yes every school in fcps and Virginia except hayfield and ocean lakes fo everything completely above board and never do any questionable things

You can’t be that delusional about how things work anywhere to actually believe that

We can’t name them all because there’s too many. The difference is that they aren’t as publicly blatant about it as Overton and hayfield people were.

Does every single school do it in every sport no pretty unlikely but it’s not hard to do even the most basic research and realize oh yea that did happen

Again, if you honestly believe this doesn’t happen at other schools in other sports, then I don’t know what to tell you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where's the proof it happened at those other schools you are trying to deag down into the mud with Hayfield.

Show us the many players who were on another roster last year who played for a school you are pointing a finger at this year.

Yes every school in fcps and Virginia except hayfield and ocean lakes fo everything completely above board and never do any questionable things

You can’t be that delusional about how things work anywhere to actually believe that

We can’t name them all because there’s too many. The difference is that they aren’t as publicly blatant about it as Overton and hayfield people were.

Does every single school do it in every sport no pretty unlikely but it’s not hard to do even the most basic research and realize oh yea that did happen

Again, if you honestly believe this doesn’t happen at other schools in other sports, then I don’t know what to tell you.

So you have no proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where's the proof it happened at those other schools you are trying to deag down into the mud with Hayfield.

Show us the many players who were on another roster last year who played for a school you are pointing a finger at this year.

Yes every school in fcps and Virginia except hayfield and ocean lakes fo everything completely above board and never do any questionable things

You can’t be that delusional about how things work anywhere to actually believe that

We can’t name them all because there’s too many. The difference is that they aren’t as publicly blatant about it as Overton and hayfield people were.

Does every single school do it in every sport no pretty unlikely but it’s not hard to do even the most basic research and realize oh yea that did happen

Again, if you honestly believe this doesn’t happen at other schools in other sports, then I don’t know what to tell you.

So you have no proof.

What do you want proof of

Someone says it happens at other places

Other people confirm it does happen

I’m not talking 30+ players, maybe 1-4 players, when these things happen it’s just done very quietly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where's the proof it happened at those other schools you are trying to deag down into the mud with Hayfield.

Show us the many players who were on another roster last year who played for a school you are pointing a finger at this year.

Yes every school in fcps and Virginia except hayfield and ocean lakes fo everything completely above board and never do any questionable things

You can’t be that delusional about how things work anywhere to actually believe that

We can’t name them all because there’s too many. The difference is that they aren’t as publicly blatant about it as Overton and hayfield people were.

Does every single school do it in every sport no pretty unlikely but it’s not hard to do even the most basic research and realize oh yea that did happen

Again, if you honestly believe this doesn’t happen at other schools in other sports, then I don’t know what to tell you.

So you have no proof.

What do you want proof of

Someone says it happens at other places

Other people confirm it does happen

I’m not talking 30+ players, maybe 1-4 players, when these things happen it’s just done very quietly

Very quiet are not words many would associate with this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where's the proof it happened at those other schools you are trying to deag down into the mud with Hayfield.

Show us the many players who were on another roster last year who played for a school you are pointing a finger at this year.

Yes every school in fcps and Virginia except hayfield and ocean lakes fo everything completely above board and never do any questionable things

You can’t be that delusional about how things work anywhere to actually believe that

We can’t name them all because there’s too many. The difference is that they aren’t as publicly blatant about it as Overton and hayfield people were.

Does every single school do it in every sport no pretty unlikely but it’s not hard to do even the most basic research and realize oh yea that did happen

Again, if you honestly believe this doesn’t happen at other schools in other sports, then I don’t know what to tell you.

So you have no proof.

What do you want proof of

Someone says it happens at other places

Other people confirm it does happen

I’m not talking 30+ players, maybe 1-4 players, when these things happen it’s just done very quietly

There was a ton of proof that Hayfield brought in all these transfers. Social media, rosters compared to previous rosters etc.

You are alleging other schools cheat. So, there should be proof. Where is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where's the proof it happened at those other schools you are trying to deag down into the mud with Hayfield.

Show us the many players who were on another roster last year who played for a school you are pointing a finger at this year.

Yes every school in fcps and Virginia except hayfield and ocean lakes fo everything completely above board and never do any questionable things

You can’t be that delusional about how things work anywhere to actually believe that

We can’t name them all because there’s too many. The difference is that they aren’t as publicly blatant about it as Overton and hayfield people were.

Does every single school do it in every sport no pretty unlikely but it’s not hard to do even the most basic research and realize oh yea that did happen

Again, if you honestly believe this doesn’t happen at other schools in other sports, then I don’t know what to tell you.

So you have no proof.

What do you want proof of

Someone says it happens at other places

Other people confirm it does happen

I’m not talking 30+ players, maybe 1-4 players, when these things happen it’s just done very quietly

There was a ton of proof that Hayfield brought in all these transfers. Social media, rosters compared to previous rosters etc.

You are alleging other schools cheat. So, there should be proof. Where is it?

There was a ton of lies and racist rhetoric about Hayfield.