Handmaids Tale is Already Here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh no, women (who were raped)[b] have to travel to another state to abort their babies. A true dystopia.

[

You conveniently forgot to mention that detail that I added in bold to your comment. These military women also need permission to travel for medical procedures and the[b] military is explicitly not allowed to provide leave for abortion due to recent policy changes. So yes that is terrible. Women who were raped will be forced to give birth to their rapists baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh no, women have to travel to another state to abort their babies. A true dystopia.

Degenerate troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's voted for this. White women specifically. It was more important to them to align themselves with white supremacy, hunt immigrants, and subjugate Black people than it was to protect the rule of law and their own rights. Why are people not more upset? I'm not going to continue twisting myself into knots trying to protect you morons from the consequences of your moronic choices. Clearly, we need to suffer for a bit.

Please stop blaming women. Men voted for Trump in greater numbers. But let's overall stop blaming and dividing each other- thats how tyranny wins.

I will not. White women never want to get honest about their role in all this, and I'm tired of the gaslighting. You're with us when it suits you and against us when white supremacy benefits you, and THAT is why tyranny won, and will continue to win until white America decides a functioning government and society is worth sharing this country and this planet with brown people.

Sorry, but plenty of black and brown men voted for Trump over Harris. Not sure why you are targeting white women as the evil gaslighters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's voted for this. White women specifically. It was more important to them to align themselves with white supremacy, hunt immigrants, and subjugate Black people than it was to protect the rule of law and their own rights. Why are people not more upset? I'm not going to continue twisting myself into knots trying to protect you morons from the consequences of your moronic choices. Clearly, we need to suffer for a bit.

Please stop blaming women. Men voted for Trump in greater numbers. But let's overall stop blaming and dividing each other- thats how tyranny wins.

I will not. White women never want to get honest about their role in all this, and I'm tired of the gaslighting. You're with us when it suits you and against us when white supremacy benefits you, and THAT is why tyranny won, and will continue to win until white America decides a functioning government and society is worth sharing this country and this planet with brown people.

I don't think the white women who voted for Trump would ever be "with you." These aren't the same groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States are literally forcing women to give birth to children of their rapist! Why are people not more upset about this. Now women in the military are also being forced to give birth if they are raped. Wtf
https://www.ms.now/news/abortion-ban-veterans-affairs-va

It continues to surprise me that women are not more upset about the erosion of abortion rights.

Maybe because we have a party that is allowing men into our bathrooms and women’s sports teams.

? Is that really worth losing your the rights to your body?

Women still have the rights to their body.
Believe it nor not, there are many women who would rather run on their school’s track team than have abortions.

I think you are vastly underestimating the number of women who will need abortion care in their lives. Miscarriages are abortions, you know. And you are vastly overestimating the number of trans people if you think there will be no spots left for non trans people on the track team.

You are vastly underestimating how painful a statement that is to women who have suffered a miscarriage. Cruel.

I’ve suffered a miscarriage in the second trimester. I also had an abortion.

Miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion of a pregnancy. Elective abortion is the same thing, but planned. Nature - or depending on your perspective, God - is the biggest abortionist of all. There are far more spontaneous abortions than elective abortions every year, as 25% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many pregnancies miscarry before the woman ever knows she is pregnant.

Why does anyone love God when God kills so very many babies, pray tell?

There is nothing in the Bible about abortion. You would think if God hated abortion, He might have spent a sentence or two condemning what was already a known practice of humankind back in the times that the books of the Bible were being written by men to control others.

It’s all a sickening political tool devised to inflame the voting base and control women.

I’m a new poster. I offer this not from a place of judgment or condemnation but because I think it is important to look head on at the moral issues surrounding abortion given that the stakes are high.

While, to the best of my knowledge, you are correct that the Bible does not contain a verse expressly discussing abortion qua abortion, it is also the case that one of the dominant themes of the Bible is that obedience to God means repudiating the practices of child sacrifice that were common place in the Ancient Near East. The question, then, is whether the same principle that led to the condemnation of those practices is broad enough to reach abortion writ large. In my judgment, early Christian believers probably would have said “yes.” The Didache is one of the earliest Christian writings not found in the Bible, and it dates back to somewhere between 50 and 120 AD suggesting that it may well reflect the religious views of contemporaries of Jesus. It expressly says “you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born.” In my judgment, this conclusion makes sense and aligns with both the thrust of scripture as I understand it and a visceral intuition that I have that the voluntary termination of human life is almost always wrong.

I am not here to judge or condemn you, but it sounds like you’ve got complicated feelings towards God. I’d urge you to spend a little uncomplicated time in prayer. God is love, and there’s no sin too big for Him to forgive. Good luck and God bless you. I’m rooting for you.

Stuff your rooting up your stupid anus, poster.

I have a wonderful relationship with God because I’m not a FAKE Christian like you are.

God loves me and doesn’t care whether I have one abortion or two dozen abortions. BECAUSE ABORTION IS NOT A SIN, IT IS HEALTHCARE YOU STUPID GIT.

You’re an a******. If anyone on this thread is an anti Christ, it’s YOU.

No, it would be me, because I’m a NP posting here as an atheist who is critical of the OPs hysteria and sensationalist claims.

If OP wants to experience living in a religious fundamentalist society, there are plenty that she could visit, but not in North America.

I beg to differ. I spent a couple of decades as an atheist, and I don’t believe atheists are anti Christ at all. Pope Francis said atheists would be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven if they were good hearted people who did good works in their lives.

In my opinion there is nothing more anti Christ that someone who uses the cloak of Christianity to perpetuate evil in this world, and who by their words and deeds rejects the most essential teachings of Christ - the red letters of the gospels.

That’s the MAGA movement in a nutshell. It is also this vile disgusting war on women launched in the 70s as a political tool to rally the ignorant and inflame those masses to ‘save the unborn’ while turning their hearts and minds against the born who are poor or otherwise downtrodden and in need of Christian charity.

The anti choice movement is anti Christ, it encourages idolization of concepts that are not in the teachings of Christ at all and at the cost of eschewing the core principles of his message. The anti choice movement has expended so much wealth over the last 50+ years on the idea of controlling women and morally judging them (ironically most have a massive beam in their own eye), while allowing actual children born into this world, and their mothers, to suffer in poverty and exploitation. Jesus wept. It is just as obvious to an atheist or a true believer that this is a perversion Christianity. These people are evil among us, sent to test us - and many are failing.

Most atheists I’ve known are finer people than most so-called Christians I’ve known. Atheists try to make the world HERE and NOW a more just place because they don’t have obsessive attachment to a world beyond. Jesus wanted his followers to strive for the same, for a just world here and now, for people to live the ideals and not for them to say if I believe in Him I will be rewarded later. It was the original perversion of the church by the government to exploit the people by getting them to accept injustice in life on the hopes of a reward in heaven. Jesus was a woke radical who wanted a transformed life in the HERE and NOW. Everything that MAGA is doing He would weep over, and if He showed up again tomorrow preaching the Sermon on the Mount they would crucify him in the blink of an eye. They are not real Christians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's voted for this. White women specifically. It was more important to them to align themselves with white supremacy, hunt immigrants, and subjugate Black people than it was to protect the rule of law and their own rights. Why are people not more upset? I'm not going to continue twisting myself into knots trying to protect you morons from the consequences of your moronic choices. Clearly, we need to suffer for a bit.

Please stop blaming women. Men voted for Trump in greater numbers. But let's overall stop blaming and dividing each other- thats how tyranny wins.

I will not. White women never want to get honest about their role in all this, and I'm tired of the gaslighting. You're with us when it suits you and against us when white supremacy benefits you, and THAT is why tyranny won, and will continue to win until white America decides a functioning government and society is worth sharing this country and this planet with brown people.

Preach! That is the truth! If you cannot handle it then you are a part of the problem. White women will always support their white men. They put their women on a pedestal and in turn they support their men. They do not want to share what they stole, killed for and enslaved for anything. They will fight to keep it too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's voted for this. White women specifically. It was more important to them to align themselves with white supremacy, hunt immigrants, and subjugate Black people than it was to protect the rule of law and their own rights. Why are people not more upset? I'm not going to continue twisting myself into knots trying to protect you morons from the consequences of your moronic choices. Clearly, we need to suffer for a bit.

Please stop blaming women. Men voted for Trump in greater numbers. But let's overall stop blaming and dividing each other- thats how tyranny wins.

I will not. White women never want to get honest about their role in all this, and I'm tired of the gaslighting. You're with us when it suits you and against us when white supremacy benefits you, and THAT is why tyranny won, and will continue to win until white America decides a functioning government and society is worth sharing this country and this planet with brown people.

Let's get honest, honey. I'm not obligated to vote for candidates that black women like. Period. It's mind blowing that you think anyone is obligated to vote the way anyone else wants them to. It's a democracy, you can win votes the usual way, through persuasion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's voted for this. White women specifically. It was more important to them to align themselves with white supremacy, hunt immigrants, and subjugate Black people than it was to protect the rule of law and their own rights. Why are people not more upset? I'm not going to continue twisting myself into knots trying to protect you morons from the consequences of your moronic choices. Clearly, we need to suffer for a bit.

Please stop blaming women. Men voted for Trump in greater numbers. But let's overall stop blaming and dividing each other- thats how tyranny wins.

I will not. White women never want to get honest about their role in all this, and I'm tired of the gaslighting. You're with us when it suits you and against us when white supremacy benefits you, and THAT is why tyranny won, and will continue to win until white America decides a functioning government and society is worth sharing this country and this planet with brown people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States are literally forcing women to give birth to children of their rapist! Why are people not more upset about this. Now women in the military are also being forced to give birth if they are raped. Wtf
https://www.ms.now/news/abortion-ban-veterans-affairs-va

It continues to surprise me that women are not more upset about the erosion of abortion rights.

Maybe because we have a party that is allowing men into our bathrooms and women’s sports teams.

? Is that really worth losing your the rights to your body?

Women still have the rights to their body.
Believe it nor not, there are many women who would rather run on their school’s track team than have abortions.

I think you are vastly underestimating the number of women who will need abortion care in their lives. Miscarriages are abortions, you know. And you are vastly overestimating the number of trans people if you think there will be no spots left for non trans people on the track team.

You are vastly underestimating how painful a statement that is to women who have suffered a miscarriage. Cruel.

I’ve suffered a miscarriage in the second trimester. I also had an abortion.

Miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion of a pregnancy. Elective abortion is the same thing, but planned. Nature - or depending on your perspective, God - is the biggest abortionist of all. There are far more spontaneous abortions than elective abortions every year, as 25% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many pregnancies miscarry before the woman ever knows she is pregnant.

Why does anyone love God when God kills so very many babies, pray tell?

There is nothing in the Bible about abortion. You would think if God hated abortion, He might have spent a sentence or two condemning what was already a known practice of humankind back in the times that the books of the Bible were being written by men to control others.

It’s all a sickening political tool devised to inflame the voting base and control women.

I’m a new poster. I offer this not from a place of judgment or condemnation but because I think it is important to look head on at the moral issues surrounding abortion given that the stakes are high.

While, to the best of my knowledge, you are correct that the Bible does not contain a verse expressly discussing abortion qua abortion, it is also the case that one of the dominant themes of the Bible is that obedience to God means repudiating the practices of child sacrifice that were common place in the Ancient Near East. The question, then, is whether the same principle that led to the condemnation of those practices is broad enough to reach abortion writ large. In my judgment, early Christian believers probably would have said “yes.” The Didache is one of the earliest Christian writings not found in the Bible, and it dates back to somewhere between 50 and 120 AD suggesting that it may well reflect the religious views of contemporaries of Jesus. It expressly says “you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born.” In my judgment, this conclusion makes sense and aligns with both the thrust of scripture as I understand it and a visceral intuition that I have that the voluntary termination of human life is almost always wrong.

I am not here to judge or condemn you, but it sounds like you’ve got complicated feelings towards God. I’d urge you to spend a little uncomplicated time in prayer. God is love, and there’s no sin too big for Him to forgive. Good luck and God bless you. I’m rooting for you.

Why do Christians not understand that the Bible informs your personal moral framework. It means nothing more to me than any other book of fiction. Quoting it as some kind of governing authority again means nothing to me. It does not govern our laws. It does not govern the behavior of anyone other than fellow followers of your religion. Stop referencing the Bible or the intentions of your God in discussions of law and rights. Your religion does not govern any of this.

I’m the person you’re quoting. The post that I was responding to expressly raised the point as to whether abortion was addressed in the Bible. I chimed in to explain why I believe that it is.

You raise an entirely separate point, which is whether the Bible has any applicability to you as a non-believer. Your premise is that the Bible is a “work of fiction” and, so, it does not. There is something to your logic if your premise is right. But if your premise is wrong—which is to say if Christianity is substantially correct—then your logic collapses because truth, be it scientific, religious, or anything else, matters even if it’s disbelieved. In my opinion, your premise is wrong. Good luck and God bless you!

That's because it's your religion, which you believe to be true, genius. I do not. Your morality is your and mine is mine. You are free to not get abortions. I will get one if I need or desire one, as nothing in my own moral framework would make it wrong.

The premise of your response is that each person is bound only by the teachings of their own moral framework. There’s a name for that—moral relativism— and perhaps the most charitable thing I can say for it is that it is not obviously correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States are literally forcing women to give birth to children of their rapist! Why are people not more upset about this. Now women in the military are also being forced to give birth if they are raped. Wtf
https://www.ms.now/news/abortion-ban-veterans-affairs-va

It continues to surprise me that women are not more upset about the erosion of abortion rights.

Maybe because we have a party that is allowing men into our bathrooms and women’s sports teams.

? Is that really worth losing your the rights to your body?

Women still have the rights to their body.
Believe it nor not, there are many women who would rather run on their school’s track team than have abortions.

I think you are vastly underestimating the number of women who will need abortion care in their lives. Miscarriages are abortions, you know. And you are vastly overestimating the number of trans people if you think there will be no spots left for non trans people on the track team.

You are vastly underestimating how painful a statement that is to women who have suffered a miscarriage. Cruel.

I’ve suffered a miscarriage in the second trimester. I also had an abortion.

Miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion of a pregnancy. Elective abortion is the same thing, but planned. Nature - or depending on your perspective, God - is the biggest abortionist of all. There are far more spontaneous abortions than elective abortions every year, as 25% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many pregnancies miscarry before the woman ever knows she is pregnant.

Why does anyone love God when God kills so very many babies, pray tell?

There is nothing in the Bible about abortion. You would think if God hated abortion, He might have spent a sentence or two condemning what was already a known practice of humankind back in the times that the books of the Bible were being written by men to control others.

It’s all a sickening political tool devised to inflame the voting base and control women.

I’m a new poster. I offer this not from a place of judgment or condemnation but because I think it is important to look head on at the moral issues surrounding abortion given that the stakes are high.

While, to the best of my knowledge, you are correct that the Bible does not contain a verse expressly discussing abortion qua abortion, it is also the case that one of the dominant themes of the Bible is that obedience to God means repudiating the practices of child sacrifice that were common place in the Ancient Near East. The question, then, is whether the same principle that led to the condemnation of those practices is broad enough to reach abortion writ large. In my judgment, early Christian believers probably would have said “yes.” The Didache is one of the earliest Christian writings not found in the Bible, and it dates back to somewhere between 50 and 120 AD suggesting that it may well reflect the religious views of contemporaries of Jesus. It expressly says “you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born.” In my judgment, this conclusion makes sense and aligns with both the thrust of scripture as I understand it and a visceral intuition that I have that the voluntary termination of human life is almost always wrong.

I am not here to judge or condemn you, but it sounds like you’ve got complicated feelings towards God. I’d urge you to spend a little uncomplicated time in prayer. God is love, and there’s no sin too big for Him to forgive. Good luck and God bless you. I’m rooting for you.

Why do Christians not understand that the Bible informs your personal moral framework. It means nothing more to me than any other book of fiction. Quoting it as some kind of governing authority again means nothing to me. It does not govern our laws. It does not govern the behavior of anyone other than fellow followers of your religion. Stop referencing the Bible or the intentions of your God in discussions of law and rights. Your religion does not govern any of this.

I’m the person you’re quoting. The post that I was responding to expressly raised the point as to whether abortion was addressed in the Bible. I chimed in to explain why I believe that it is.

You raise an entirely separate point, which is whether the Bible has any applicability to you as a non-believer. Your premise is that the Bible is a “work of fiction” and, so, it does not. There is something to your logic if your premise is right. But if your premise is wrong—which is to say if Christianity is substantially correct—then your logic collapses because truth, be it scientific, religious, or anything else, matters even if it’s disbelieved. In my opinion, your premise is wrong. Good luck and God bless you!

In our free country, one person's religion should not dictate another's freedoms. If your argument against abortion is based on your religion, then it is anti American to implement law restricting the freedom of others based on it. Using the religion logic, women could lose the right to vote based on Biblical interpretation (which some, like Hegseth, seem to support). Heck no to using religion to determine freedoms.

If you want to make an anti-abortion argument based on general, ethical concerns, fine.

This is a topsy turvy argument. Setting aside the obvious point that it is of course fine to use whatever heuristic one sees fit (religion included) to judge the merits of law, much of our debate around abortion has nothing to do with religion. The fight over Roe v. Wade (as refurbished in Casey v. Planned Parenthood) was about whether the 14th Amendment prohibits restrictions on pre-viability abortions. I do have religious issues with abortion, but my thoughts on the scope of the 14th amendment don’t really have much to do with them— i believe theft is a sin, but I don’t think that the 14th amendment prohibits it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States are literally forcing women to give birth to children of their rapist! Why are people not more upset about this. Now women in the military are also being forced to give birth if they are raped. Wtf
https://www.ms.now/news/abortion-ban-veterans-affairs-va

It continues to surprise me that women are not more upset about the erosion of abortion rights.

Maybe because we have a party that is allowing men into our bathrooms and women’s sports teams.

? Is that really worth losing your the rights to your body?

Women still have the rights to their body.
Believe it nor not, there are many women who would rather run on their school’s track team than have abortions.

I think you are vastly underestimating the number of women who will need abortion care in their lives. Miscarriages are abortions, you know. And you are vastly overestimating the number of trans people if you think there will be no spots left for non trans people on the track team.

You are vastly underestimating how painful a statement that is to women who have suffered a miscarriage. Cruel.

I’ve suffered a miscarriage in the second trimester. I also had an abortion.

Miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion of a pregnancy. Elective abortion is the same thing, but planned. Nature - or depending on your perspective, God - is the biggest abortionist of all. There are far more spontaneous abortions than elective abortions every year, as 25% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many pregnancies miscarry before the woman ever knows she is pregnant.

Why does anyone love God when God kills so very many babies, pray tell?

There is nothing in the Bible about abortion. You would think if God hated abortion, He might have spent a sentence or two condemning what was already a known practice of humankind back in the times that the books of the Bible were being written by men to control others.

It’s all a sickening political tool devised to inflame the voting base and control women.

I’m a new poster. I offer this not from a place of judgment or condemnation but because I think it is important to look head on at the moral issues surrounding abortion given that the stakes are high.

While, to the best of my knowledge, you are correct that the Bible does not contain a verse expressly discussing abortion qua abortion, it is also the case that one of the dominant themes of the Bible is that obedience to God means repudiating the practices of child sacrifice that were common place in the Ancient Near East. The question, then, is whether the same principle that led to the condemnation of those practices is broad enough to reach abortion writ large. In my judgment, early Christian believers probably would have said “yes.” The Didache is one of the earliest Christian writings not found in the Bible, and it dates back to somewhere between 50 and 120 AD suggesting that it may well reflect the religious views of contemporaries of Jesus. It expressly says “you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born.” In my judgment, this conclusion makes sense and aligns with both the thrust of scripture as I understand it and a visceral intuition that I have that the voluntary termination of human life is almost always wrong.

I am not here to judge or condemn you, but it sounds like you’ve got complicated feelings towards God. I’d urge you to spend a little uncomplicated time in prayer. God is love, and there’s no sin too big for Him to forgive. Good luck and God bless you. I’m rooting for you.

Why do Christians not understand that the Bible informs your personal moral framework. It means nothing more to me than any other book of fiction. Quoting it as some kind of governing authority again means nothing to me. It does not govern our laws. It does not govern the behavior of anyone other than fellow followers of your religion. Stop referencing the Bible or the intentions of your God in discussions of law and rights. Your religion does not govern any of this.

You're right Christian morality had just as little effect on western values as Greco-Roman law and philosophy did on our legal system

Right, our moral values are influenced by Christianity and other religions , but we now follow the laws of the United States Constitution, not the laws of the Roman Empire or the Bible.

+1 and if we followed archaic Biblical rules/traditions, women would not have the right to vote.

lol wut?

-person who has actually read the Bible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States are literally forcing women to give birth to children of their rapist! Why are people not more upset about this. Now women in the military are also being forced to give birth if they are raped. Wtf
https://www.ms.now/news/abortion-ban-veterans-affairs-va

It continues to surprise me that women are not more upset about the erosion of abortion rights.

Maybe because we have a party that is allowing men into our bathrooms and women’s sports teams.

? Is that really worth losing your the rights to your body?

Women still have the rights to their body.
Believe it nor not, there are many women who would rather run on their school’s track team than have abortions.

I think you are vastly underestimating the number of women who will need abortion care in their lives. Miscarriages are abortions, you know. And you are vastly overestimating the number of trans people if you think there will be no spots left for non trans people on the track team.

You are vastly underestimating how painful a statement that is to women who have suffered a miscarriage. Cruel.

I’ve suffered a miscarriage in the second trimester. I also had an abortion.

Miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion of a pregnancy. Elective abortion is the same thing, but planned. Nature - or depending on your perspective, God - is the biggest abortionist of all. There are far more spontaneous abortions than elective abortions every year, as 25% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many pregnancies miscarry before the woman ever knows she is pregnant.

Why does anyone love God when God kills so very many babies, pray tell?

There is nothing in the Bible about abortion. You would think if God hated abortion, He might have spent a sentence or two condemning what was already a known practice of humankind back in the times that the books of the Bible were being written by men to control others.

It’s all a sickening political tool devised to inflame the voting base and control women.

I’m a new poster. I offer this not from a place of judgment or condemnation but because I think it is important to look head on at the moral issues surrounding abortion given that the stakes are high.

While, to the best of my knowledge, you are correct that the Bible does not contain a verse expressly discussing abortion qua abortion, it is also the case that one of the dominant themes of the Bible is that obedience to God means repudiating the practices of child sacrifice that were common place in the Ancient Near East. The question, then, is whether the same principle that led to the condemnation of those practices is broad enough to reach abortion writ large. In my judgment, early Christian believers probably would have said “yes.” The Didache is one of the earliest Christian writings not found in the Bible, and it dates back to somewhere between 50 and 120 AD suggesting that it may well reflect the religious views of contemporaries of Jesus. It expressly says “you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born.” In my judgment, this conclusion makes sense and aligns with both the thrust of scripture as I understand it and a visceral intuition that I have that the voluntary termination of human life is almost always wrong.

I am not here to judge or condemn you, but it sounds like you’ve got complicated feelings towards God. I’d urge you to spend a little uncomplicated time in prayer. God is love, and there’s no sin too big for Him to forgive. Good luck and God bless you. I’m rooting for you.

Why do Christians not understand that the Bible informs your personal moral framework. It means nothing more to me than any other book of fiction. Quoting it as some kind of governing authority again means nothing to me. It does not govern our laws. It does not govern the behavior of anyone other than fellow followers of your religion. Stop referencing the Bible or the intentions of your God in discussions of law and rights. Your religion does not govern any of this.

You're right Christian morality had just as little effect on western values as Greco-Roman law and philosophy did on our legal system

Right, our moral values are influenced by Christianity and other religions , but we now follow the laws of the United States Constitution, not the laws of the Roman Empire or the Bible.

+1 and if we followed archaic Biblical rules/traditions, women would not have the right to vote.

lol wut?

-person who has actually read the Bible

It is an argument used by some on the far right, women should obey and submit to their husbands. See Doug Wilson, he gets propped up a lot on the far right and Hegseth is a member of his church and seems to agree with this belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States are literally forcing women to give birth to children of their rapist! Why are people not more upset about this. Now women in the military are also being forced to give birth if they are raped. Wtf
https://www.ms.now/news/abortion-ban-veterans-affairs-va

It continues to surprise me that women are not more upset about the erosion of abortion rights.

Maybe because we have a party that is allowing men into our bathrooms and women’s sports teams.

? Is that really worth losing your the rights to your body?

Women still have the rights to their body.
Believe it nor not, there are many women who would rather run on their school’s track team than have abortions.

I think you are vastly underestimating the number of women who will need abortion care in their lives. Miscarriages are abortions, you know. And you are vastly overestimating the number of trans people if you think there will be no spots left for non trans people on the track team.

You are vastly underestimating how painful a statement that is to women who have suffered a miscarriage. Cruel.

I’ve suffered a miscarriage in the second trimester. I also had an abortion.

Miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion of a pregnancy. Elective abortion is the same thing, but planned. Nature - or depending on your perspective, God - is the biggest abortionist of all. There are far more spontaneous abortions than elective abortions every year, as 25% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many pregnancies miscarry before the woman ever knows she is pregnant.

Why does anyone love God when God kills so very many babies, pray tell?

There is nothing in the Bible about abortion. You would think if God hated abortion, He might have spent a sentence or two condemning what was already a known practice of humankind back in the times that the books of the Bible were being written by men to control others.

It’s all a sickening political tool devised to inflame the voting base and control women.

I’m a new poster. I offer this not from a place of judgment or condemnation but because I think it is important to look head on at the moral issues surrounding abortion given that the stakes are high.

While, to the best of my knowledge, you are correct that the Bible does not contain a verse expressly discussing abortion qua abortion, it is also the case that one of the dominant themes of the Bible is that obedience to God means repudiating the practices of child sacrifice that were common place in the Ancient Near East. The question, then, is whether the same principle that led to the condemnation of those practices is broad enough to reach abortion writ large. In my judgment, early Christian believers probably would have said “yes.” The Didache is one of the earliest Christian writings not found in the Bible, and it dates back to somewhere between 50 and 120 AD suggesting that it may well reflect the religious views of contemporaries of Jesus. It expressly says “you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born.” In my judgment, this conclusion makes sense and aligns with both the thrust of scripture as I understand it and a visceral intuition that I have that the voluntary termination of human life is almost always wrong.

I am not here to judge or condemn you, but it sounds like you’ve got complicated feelings towards God. I’d urge you to spend a little uncomplicated time in prayer. God is love, and there’s no sin too big for Him to forgive. Good luck and God bless you. I’m rooting for you.

Why do Christians not understand that the Bible informs your personal moral framework. It means nothing more to me than any other book of fiction. Quoting it as some kind of governing authority again means nothing to me. It does not govern our laws. It does not govern the behavior of anyone other than fellow followers of your religion. Stop referencing the Bible or the intentions of your God in discussions of law and rights. Your religion does not govern any of this.

I’m the person you’re quoting. The post that I was responding to expressly raised the point as to whether abortion was addressed in the Bible. I chimed in to explain why I believe that it is.

You raise an entirely separate point, which is whether the Bible has any applicability to you as a non-believer. Your premise is that the Bible is a “work of fiction” and, so, it does not. There is something to your logic if your premise is right. But if your premise is wrong—which is to say if Christianity is substantially correct—then your logic collapses because truth, be it scientific, religious, or anything else, matters even if it’s disbelieved. In my opinion, your premise is wrong. Good luck and God bless you!

In our free country, one person's religion should not dictate another's freedoms. If your argument against abortion is based on your religion, then it is anti American to implement law restricting the freedom of others based on it. Using the religion logic, women could lose the right to vote based on Biblical interpretation (which some, like Hegseth, seem to support). Heck no to using religion to determine freedoms.

If you want to make an anti-abortion argument based on general, ethical concerns, fine.

This is a topsy turvy argument. Setting aside the obvious point that it is of course fine to use whatever heuristic one sees fit (religion included) to judge the merits of law, much of our debate around abortion has nothing to do with religion. The fight over Roe v. Wade (as refurbished in Casey v. Planned Parenthood) was about whether the 14th Amendment prohibits restrictions on pre-viability abortions. I do have religious issues with abortion, but my thoughts on the scope of the 14th amendment don’t really have much to do with them— i believe theft is a sin, but I don’t think that the 14th amendment prohibits it.

Legal matters aside, the right absolutely uses religion for their justification for restrictive abortion law.

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Anonymous wrote:States are literally forcing women to give birth to children of their rapist! Why are people not more upset about this. Now women in the military are also being forced to give birth if they are raped. Wtf
https://www.ms.now/news/abortion-ban-veterans-affairs-va

It continues to surprise me that women are not more upset about the erosion of abortion rights.

Maybe because we have a party that is allowing men into our bathrooms and women’s sports teams.

? Is that really worth losing your the rights to your body?

Women still have the rights to their body.
Believe it nor not, there are many women who would rather run on their school’s track team than have abortions.

I think you are vastly underestimating the number of women who will need abortion care in their lives. Miscarriages are abortions, you know. And you are vastly overestimating the number of trans people if you think there will be no spots left for non trans people on the track team.

You are vastly underestimating how painful a statement that is to women who have suffered a miscarriage. Cruel.

I’ve suffered a miscarriage in the second trimester. I also had an abortion.

Miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion of a pregnancy. Elective abortion is the same thing, but planned. Nature - or depending on your perspective, God - is the biggest abortionist of all. There are far more spontaneous abortions than elective abortions every year, as 25% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many pregnancies miscarry before the woman ever knows she is pregnant.

Why does anyone love God when God kills so very many babies, pray tell?

There is nothing in the Bible about abortion. You would think if God hated abortion, He might have spent a sentence or two condemning what was already a known practice of humankind back in the times that the books of the Bible were being written by men to control others.

It’s all a sickening political tool devised to inflame the voting base and control women.

I’m a new poster. I offer this not from a place of judgment or condemnation but because I think it is important to look head on at the moral issues surrounding abortion given that the stakes are high.

While, to the best of my knowledge, you are correct that the Bible does not contain a verse expressly discussing abortion qua abortion, it is also the case that one of the dominant themes of the Bible is that obedience to God means repudiating the practices of child sacrifice that were common place in the Ancient Near East. The question, then, is whether the same principle that led to the condemnation of those practices is broad enough to reach abortion writ large. In my judgment, early Christian believers probably would have said “yes.” The Didache is one of the earliest Christian writings not found in the Bible, and it dates back to somewhere between 50 and 120 AD suggesting that it may well reflect the religious views of contemporaries of Jesus. It expressly says “you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born.” In my judgment, this conclusion makes sense and aligns with both the thrust of scripture as I understand it and a visceral intuition that I have that the voluntary termination of human life is almost always wrong.

I am not here to judge or condemn you, but it sounds like you’ve got complicated feelings towards God. I’d urge you to spend a little uncomplicated time in prayer. God is love, and there’s no sin too big for Him to forgive. Good luck and God bless you. I’m rooting for you.

Why do Christians not understand that the Bible informs your personal moral framework. It means nothing more to me than any other book of fiction. Quoting it as some kind of governing authority again means nothing to me. It does not govern our laws. It does not govern the behavior of anyone other than fellow followers of your religion. Stop referencing the Bible or the intentions of your God in discussions of law and rights. Your religion does not govern any of this.

I’m the person you’re quoting. The post that I was responding to expressly raised the point as to whether abortion was addressed in the Bible. I chimed in to explain why I believe that it is.

You raise an entirely separate point, which is whether the Bible has any applicability to you as a non-believer. Your premise is that the Bible is a “work of fiction” and, so, it does not. There is something to your logic if your premise is right. But if your premise is wrong—which is to say if Christianity is substantially correct—then your logic collapses because truth, be it scientific, religious, or anything else, matters even if it’s disbelieved. In my opinion, your premise is wrong. Good luck and God bless you!

In our free country, one person's religion should not dictate another's freedoms. If your argument against abortion is based on your religion, then it is anti American to implement law restricting the freedom of others based on it. Using the religion logic, women could lose the right to vote based on Biblical interpretation (which some, like Hegseth, seem to support). Heck no to using religion to determine freedoms.

If you want to make an anti-abortion argument based on general, ethical concerns, fine.

This is a topsy turvy argument. Setting aside the obvious point that it is of course fine to use whatever heuristic one sees fit (religion included) to judge the merits of law, much of our debate around abortion has nothing to do with religion. The fight over Roe v. Wade (as refurbished in Casey v. Planned Parenthood) was about whether the 14th Amendment prohibits restrictions on pre-viability abortions. I do have religious issues with abortion, but my thoughts on the scope of the 14th amendment don’t really have much to do with them— i believe theft is a sin, but I don’t think that the 14th amendment prohibits it.

Legal matters aside, the right absolutely uses religion for their justification for restrictive abortion law.

Who cares? It's as valid a justification as any other one.

The establishment clause prevents the government from establishing an official religion or favoring one religion over the other. It does not prevent voters from using their religion as a guide for their votes or from influencing politicians to make their preferred laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but plenty of black and brown men voted for Trump over Harris. Not sure why you are targeting white women as the evil gaslighters.

Well, you are without question a gaslighter. A greater percentage of white women voted for Trump over Clinton (47% vs 45%), Trump over Biden (53% vs 45%), and Trump over Harris (51% vs 47%). Black men voted for Clinton, a white woman who described them as subhuman superpredators who needed to be brought to heed, over Trump (86% vs 14%), Biden over Trump (87% vs 12%), and Harris over Trump (75% vs 21%). Black men represent barely five percent of the national electorate, and you want to pretend that the one-fifth of that five percent who voted for Trump in 2024 is plenty? Thank you for Example #52836623 that Black Lives Don't Matter But White Feelings Always Do.

Twice, black men voted overwhelmingly for a woman to become president of the United States. Twice, a hell of lot more white women voted for themselves. And thrice, too many white women who didn't vote for Trump made excuses for their sisters who did.