Low effort teens

[Anonymous]

I mean this issue you have is as old as time. Never underestimate the power of desire is what you want them to understand. How to make someone want something? You really can't unless you know how to manipulate them but for this, is it really worth it to be the best runner or best student if they are just fine and still a kid?

And even if you can, can you make it last? It's why we all do different things.

[Anonymous]

Here's a little secret -

I am Asian and grew up with the kind of parents that slapped me silly unless I got straight As and did everything par excellence. As soon as I was out of the house, everything went downhill from there.

There is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that can replace self initiation. You just have to want that for yourself. The Asian families you see whose kids are so top of the game? It's a cultural thing. It's not forced, it cannot be forced and if it is, it won't last.

It's the reason why Americans pretty much suck at everything and still come out ahead. Because American culture stresses independent thought and actions. You have to want it for yourself, no matter how hard, how painful, how much sacrifice - most do not. The ones who do will succeed beyond wildest dreams. This is something that cannot be taught but is somewhat cultural to a degree. In many parts of the world, there is an appreciation of excellence that you don't find in this country because it is so wealthy and easy to find opportunities. However, when it comes down to kids and how they do during the teens years - it's still up to them.

Another example is that while all my parents friends forced their kids to grow up with the language, my parents did not care. However, as I wanted to be fluent in my native language, even to this day, I go out of my way to speak the language on my own. It's nothing they taught me but it's something I made sure I knew how to do by self study.

Let your kids be OP. One day they may learn for themselves they want more but until that day comes, you have to let them be as long as they are doing fine. There really is nothing wrong with getting by and being happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a little secret -

I am Asian and grew up with the kind of parents that slapped me silly unless I got straight As and did everything par excellence. As soon as I was out of the house, everything went downhill from there.

There is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that can replace self initiation. You just have to want that for yourself. The Asian families you see whose kids are so top of the game? It's a cultural thing. It's not forced, it cannot be forced and if it is, it won't last.

It's the reason why Americans pretty much suck at everything and still come out ahead. Because American culture stresses independent thought and actions. You have to want it for yourself, no matter how hard, how painful, how much sacrifice - most do not. The ones who do will succeed beyond wildest dreams. This is something that cannot be taught but is somewhat cultural to a degree. In many parts of the world, there is an appreciation of excellence that you don't find in this country because it is so wealthy and easy to find opportunities. However, when it comes down to kids and how they do during the teens years - it's still up to them.

Another example is that while all my parents friends forced their kids to grow up with the language, my parents did not care. However, as I wanted to be fluent in my native language, even to this day, I go out of my way to speak the language on my own. It's nothing they taught me but it's something I made sure I knew how to do by self study.

Let your kids be OP. One day they may learn for themselves they want more but until that day comes, you have to let them be as long as they are doing fine. There really is nothing wrong with getting by and being happy.

It's very unclear what the reason for that is and whether it will continue.

[Anonymous]

Some kids just aren't competitive by nature. As long as they don't have aspirations to a college that's really hard to get into, this might not be so bad. People like this tend to be more content with life and are good team players so people usually like working with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

Wouldn't that make you happy, huh? Wouldn't you love for the hard working kids to be miserable, you, the, non-competitive, easy going person full of kindness?

Dp This is prime example of distorted thinking. Why would pp or anyone want 'hard working kids' to be miserable? Why is the choice is only between 'hard working' and doing nothing? There are more examples of kids who are overworked and stressed due to parental pressure. But that does not mean anyone wishes ill will on these kids. We feel for them!

I remember reading a book that dealt with this topic and it was very interesting: https://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X

A lot of people are envious and insecure of their own parenting choices. They are literally hoping that children who are pushed by their parents (as they see it - it might not even be true, as they don't really know much other kids are studying or what their parents are telling them) fail in school and careers, and/or hate their parents as adults. PP is literally hoping that my child (as they see them) will suffer from anxiety and depression because of my "insane parenting". It will validate their parenting philosophy and show that their child is the one ahead, after all.

These are the same people who preach laid back parenting based on kindness and understanding. In reality, they just want (what appear to be accomplished) kids to fail. "See, I told you, my B student is now a CEO while your valedictorian is taking medication."

You can say the same for 'hard working kids' parents to wish failure on those kids who aren't pushed by their parents to fail. See I told you have to push your kids! Billy is working at Wendy's because his parents didn't force him to get all As! So meanness goes BOTH ways!

Honestly, I've never seen this. But I've seen a lot of "nice" people wishing mental illness on academically accomplished teens.

Perdicting mental illness or anxiety is not the same as wishing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a little secret -

I am Asian and grew up with the kind of parents that slapped me silly unless I got straight As and did everything par excellence. As soon as I was out of the house, everything went downhill from there.

There is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that can replace self initiation. You just have to want that for yourself. The Asian families you see whose kids are so top of the game? It's a cultural thing. It's not forced, it cannot be forced and if it is, it won't last.

It's the reason why Americans pretty much suck at everything and still come out ahead. Because American culture stresses independent thought and actions. You have to want it for yourself, no matter how hard, how painful, how much sacrifice - most do not. The ones who do will succeed beyond wildest dreams. This is something that cannot be taught but is somewhat cultural to a degree. In many parts of the world, there is an appreciation of excellence that you don't find in this country because it is so wealthy and easy to find opportunities. However, when it comes down to kids and how they do during the teens years - it's still up to them.

Another example is that while all my parents friends forced their kids to grow up with the language, my parents did not care. However, as I wanted to be fluent in my native language, even to this day, I go out of my way to speak the language on my own. It's nothing they taught me but it's something I made sure I knew how to do by self study.

Let your kids be OP. One day they may learn for themselves they want more but until that day comes, you have to let them be as long as they are doing fine. There really is nothing wrong with getting by and being happy.

Well I disagree with you strongly that ' Americans suck at everything'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a little secret -

I am Asian and grew up with the kind of parents that slapped me silly unless I got straight As and did everything par excellence. As soon as I was out of the house, everything went downhill from there.

There is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that can replace self initiation. You just have to want that for yourself. The Asian families you see whose kids are so top of the game? It's a cultural thing. It's not forced, it cannot be forced and if it is, it won't last.

It's the reason why Americans pretty much suck at everything and still come out ahead. Because American culture stresses independent thought and actions. You have to want it for yourself, no matter how hard, how painful, how much sacrifice - most do not. The ones who do will succeed beyond wildest dreams. This is something that cannot be taught but is somewhat cultural to a degree. In many parts of the world, there is an appreciation of excellence that you don't find in this country because it is so wealthy and easy to find opportunities. However, when it comes down to kids and how they do during the teens years - it's still up to them.

Another example is that while all my parents friends forced their kids to grow up with the language, my parents did not care. However, as I wanted to be fluent in my native language, even to this day, I go out of my way to speak the language on my own. It's nothing they taught me but it's something I made sure I knew how to do by self study.

Let your kids be OP. One day they may learn for themselves they want more but until that day comes, you have to let them be as long as they are doing fine. There really is nothing wrong with getting by and being happy.

Well I disagree with you strongly that ' Americans suck at everything'

Unfortunately, we don’t suck at attracting millions of immigrants to our country who then complain that we suck at everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

Wouldn't that make you happy, huh? Wouldn't you love for the hard working kids to be miserable, you, the, non-competitive, easy going person full of kindness?

Dp This is prime example of distorted thinking. Why would pp or anyone want 'hard working kids' to be miserable? Why is the choice is only between 'hard working' and doing nothing? There are more examples of kids who are overworked and stressed due to parental pressure. But that does not mean anyone wishes ill will on these kids. We feel for them!

I remember reading a book that dealt with this topic and it was very interesting: https://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X

A lot of people are envious and insecure of their own parenting choices. They are literally hoping that children who are pushed by their parents (as they see it - it might not even be true, as they don't really know much other kids are studying or what their parents are telling them) fail in school and careers, and/or hate their parents as adults. PP is literally hoping that my child (as they see them) will suffer from anxiety and depression because of my "insane parenting". It will validate their parenting philosophy and show that their child is the one ahead, after all.

These are the same people who preach laid back parenting based on kindness and understanding. In reality, they just want (what appear to be accomplished) kids to fail. "See, I told you, my B student is now a CEO while your valedictorian is taking medication."

Nobody hopes you kids have anxiety and depression people are literally trying to help you not push a kid so hard he has anxiety and depression. They are also explaining to you that your hard hitter and your laid back child will essentially end up with the same amount of money in the end.

You actually want to be able to parent in a way that is toxic for this specific child and your justification is that there are people in the world pushing you to be a better parent so their kid will beat your kid... do you know how insane that sounds.

My child is not in competition with your child in any way, shape or form.

You don't know my child, you have no clue how I am parenting them, and you have no clue how they are supposed to be parented. Yet here you are "helping me not have a depressed child". You just said that "I want to be able to parent in a way that is toxic for my specific child"

What do you know about me and my child? What kind of nasty idiot are you?

Your responses are more and more unhinged every single time you post.

You really need a family therapist to help you with this. It’s way beyond something that can be explained on a form like this.

Good luck, you need it.

I am a therapist, idiot. See you in the office!

Don't feed the trolls, doc. They're out in force this weekend.