Culture essay question. Feels like a trap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No.

Privilege still trumps race. So this essay is the last remaining lever.

And racism is alive and well. I’m a little bitter that asian kids can’t be fully themselves in this process. Racism is shitty

So you're sorry that your racial preferences are at the expense of asians but you support it nonetheless

DP, but why is it wrong for campus’s to not be 50%+ Asian. White students are artificially limited, because we recognize a diverse environment and yeah…it makes college awesome, more interesting, and frankly less echo chamber-y. My first real discussion on Policing happened in a seminar with a black student who was low income advocating for MORE police, while a white liberal student harped on institutional racism, and an Asian American student had ambivalence between no police at all and the effects of crime. Those great discussions can only really spur with diverse living experiences, and if any of us are being honest, top colleges’ Asian populations are 70+% Chinese, Korean, and Japanese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

Lol, you seem a bit grumpy and bitter.

URMs that go to these schools, and generally, are super intelligent, creative, high EQs. they will use this essay as an opp to discuss something interesting and authentic. could be race if it works but they wont /shouldnt shoehorn it here as main evenr when they can easily communicate it elsewhere and or adjacently here.

The bolded may be true in a vaccuum, but compared to their peers at the same institution, it is not true.And it becomes less true as you move down the totem pole of college selectivity. The gaps get wider and wider as each tier takes more than it's share of URM. By the time you get to places like Georgetown, the gap gets pretty shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think these schools want to hear about Asian culture, including Indian.

I don’t think they want to hear about middle eastern/North African.

I don’t think they want to hear about any Caribbean culture.

I think they’re only looking for (American) Black, Hispanic, indigenous, and rural, and first gen (but only if no specified ethnicity or one of the above).

The whole thing feels like a trap w college still stuck with their own implicit bias or not so implicit box checking.

Am I wrong? Wouldn’t you advise a kid with strong ties to, say, Egypt or China to pick a “culture” (club, neighborhood etc) that isn’t so impacted in this process?

yes, who you call American blacks, we have a special place in this country. We have been here since 1619, before the revolution, we have never been immigrants. At the same time we were not treated as fully human till the 1960s after war (where yes, white americans sacrificed many lives and that cannot be forgotten) and battle in the courts. if it were noy for this American struggle to recongize the rights of all man you would not be in this country, the flood of immigration after 1968 would not have happen if not for the civil rights movement. so yes, if colleges want to hear about how people have overcome in a society in which their not to distant ancestors, many who are still alive, were literally treated as second class citizens, take time to understand that. This country has a history, the sum of the United States is not equal to being a place people can come to espace where they came from.

So a bunch of white people did horrible shit to a bunch of black people and the answer is to take opportunities earned by a bunch of asians people to give to the black people? We couldn't naturalize and become citizens. We didn't own slaves. But, OK, lets say that this is somehow fair because the asian immigrants are assuming the moral debt of the country when they immigrate here and it is somehow fair that they bear the lion's share of this moral debty. What moral debt does this country have to hispanics that asians must sacrifice so we can provide a preference to them? I mean chinese on the west coast were lynched, and hispanics were among the ones doing the lynching. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Chinese_massacre_of_1871

Why should asian opportunities be given to hispanics? There are at least as many hispanic beneficiaries of affirmative action as there are descendants of american slaves. And why should the african and caribbean immigrants receive this preference? Until very recently asians didn't show up on these shores with much more than any other immigrant, legal or otherwise. Vietnamese refugees came here with nothing. Most asian countries before 1980 had currency controls that restricted your ability to take money out of the country when you went to america.

Racism is a dirty business and the notion that there is such a thing as "good racism" is perverse.

Also, the immigration naturalization act had little to do with civil rights movement and had everything to do with the cold war and america's image on the world stage. In fact if you believe derrick bell, even the civil rights act was also largely the result of the cold war. See, interest convergence. Has it escaped you that noone was concerned about legacy admissions until affirmative action went away? Affirmative action was providing cover for legacy admissions and other white preferences, see, interest convergence.

When you make appeals like this over injustices you yourself never suffered, what you are seeking is justice and what you are getting is pity. A black man under the age of 40 (never mind an 18 year old applying for college) was not born into circumstances any worse than a poor asian immigrant in chinatown.

For someone promoting a culture that claims to value learning, this statement is so appallingly ignorant as to suggest that the person making is not sincere.

The briefest glance at any real research on this subject (such as that done by the US DOJ and very, very many police departments around the country) reveals that PPs statement is, of course, nonsense. Black people are stopped more by police on the street, in cars, on public transport (literally except at night in circumstances where police can’t see their race), they are searched more (despite white people having a slightly higher probability of carrying drugs or weapons), they are charged more than whites displaying identical behavior with offenses ranging from jay walking to resisting arrest, they are given higher sentences for identical crimes, they are paroled less often, and they are violated back to jail more often for identical things.

In school, the story is the same — white and Asian kids are given a pass on behavior that gets Black kids suspended or expelled or results in police being called.

Of course, PP likely knows all this, they are just hoping some DCUM readers don’t so that they can engage in obvious racist propaganda. I doubt they are even Asian. The Asians that I personally know, having suffered racism, are aware of all forms of it and support the Black community. Just like I wouldn’t go to Bangladesh as an America and attack the law setting aside a percentage of civil service jobs for families of veterans and talking about what I deserve at the expense of other groups, the real Asians that I know in the US don’t try to undermine the Black community but rather seek to work together to fight all racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

Almost 10% of asian students get a 1500+ on the SAT. It's less than 1% for most other groups, except white where you get 2% (disproportionately jewish).

Academic achievement is not evenly distributed across races.

The power of a race almost entirely coming from the upper class of their nations!

Until very recently, the upper class asians stayed in asia, why would they leave to come to a country that treated them poorly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see evidence that backs up what you're saying when I look at students on college campuses.

This. You go on the campuses of top schools and they feel overwhelmingly Asian and South Asian. Clearly these kids are getting in.

This is as dumb as people who say that cops kill more white men than black men so cops clearly don't have a problem with black men.

Except one ends with death and the other is college admissions.

The comment is still dumb AF and fails basic reasoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see evidence that backs up what you're saying when I look at students on college campuses.

This. You go on the campuses of top schools and they feel overwhelmingly Asian and South Asian. Clearly these kids are getting in.

This is as dumb as people who say that cops kill more white men than black men so cops clearly don't have a problem with black men.

Except one ends with death and the other is college admissions.

The comment is still dumb AF and fails basic reasoning.

Sure, just the stakes you proposed are no where near related, and Michelle Guo having to go to Berkeley instead of Princeton is not that detrimental to any of her prospects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

No you can't, and yes it's going to happen anyway, but you don't have to make it even worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

No you can't, and yes it's going to happen anyway, but you don't have to make it even worse.

Hmm how do I frame this for you. It still matters that you are in the room. Sure it may suck to know you were pushed by institutional factors to get in (I really don’t think this matters that much, be happy you got into a top college and move on), but representation isn’t a buzzword- it’s confronting really horrid inequality.

It’s usually easier for people to understand if you think more in terms of sex. Women have historical massive disadvantages for getting into science careers- especially physics. We could approach this by saying “only the best women at the same level as the men can get into the Physics program.” But remember that less than a decade or so ago, most stem activities had near zero women, terribly sexist cultures, and there was a dearth of “women in stem” opportunities like today.

So what you’re really doing is saying “Women you have two choices. Deal with really crappy men and experience relentless harassment and lack of representation for your entire career or…do something else.” I wonder why so many women chose option 2 before we gave admissions boost to women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

Do you think there’s a societal impact if we stop admitting diverse classes of people to be in our medical schools, congressional halls, leaders of our non profits, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

The current complaints aren’t much different. People just throw assumptions and stick with it, because of the Harvard case that they haven’t read.