Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a pretty interesting thread about the hospital explosion:

https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1714611504513782048

I think the point about believing casualty numbers uncritically and unquestioningly before there was even any realistic chance of accurately evaluating those numbers is particularly well-taken. The news that there were hundreds of casualties in a claimed Israeli hospital strike went global without any real thought about whether it was even physically possible to accurately assess the supposed deaths.

Mainstream news organizations badly failed. People could have died worldwide because of that failure. I hope they look critically at their reporting, but they probably won’t.

More people are likely to die. It looks like Hezbollah is preparing for some sort of major operation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you someone explain to me Israelis bulldozing Palestinian homes? What is the criteria for doing this? Punishing an entire family for one person’s actions sounds like the antithesis of democracy to me. When an Israeli Jew commits a crime, does the government also bulldoze their family home?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/29/israel-palestine-violence-west-bank/

The settlers are crazy. Most Israelis hate them.

Yes the settlers are rambunctious and even fight the IDF when they tell them to stop goading The Palestinians in the West Bank. They are bat shit insane . If I remember correctly, one of those extremists killed PM Rabin in the 90s so no doubt Israeli govt is probably scared of them and who can blame them?

Unfortunately Netanyahu gave the settlers too much power and the broader was not manned on October 7 with Gaza because the IDF had to get stationed to the West Bank to handle not the Palestinians but these batshit settlers .

What a shitshow Netanyahu and the settlers have been. Those settlers should be removed from the West Bank and forced into Gaza right now to fight Hamas since they are the ones who led to this security breach. They claim they want to fight and die for Israel . Well, now is there chance . Israel can kill two birds with one stone : Hamas and these guys.

That would open up housing for at least 500,000 Gazan refugees. It's a win-win-win!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a pretty interesting thread about the hospital explosion:

https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1714611504513782048

I think the point about believing casualty numbers uncritically and unquestioningly before there was even any realistic chance of accurately evaluating those numbers is particularly well-taken. The news that there were hundreds of casualties in a claimed Israeli hospital strike went global without any real thought about whether it was even physically possible to accurately assess the supposed deaths.

Mainstream news organizations badly failed. People could have died worldwide because of that failure. I hope they look critically at their reporting, but they probably won’t.

More people are likely to die. It looks like Hezbollah is preparing for some sort of major operation.

Yes, unfortunately.

The NYT and BBC and the like will have contributed to a lot of deaths with their misinformation. It is awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a pretty interesting thread about the hospital explosion:

https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1714611504513782048

I think the point about believing casualty numbers uncritically and unquestioningly before there was even any realistic chance of accurately evaluating those numbers is particularly well-taken. The news that there were hundreds of casualties in a claimed Israeli hospital strike went global without any real thought about whether it was even physically possible to accurately assess the supposed deaths.

Mainstream news organizations badly failed. People could have died worldwide because of that failure. I hope they look critically at their reporting, but they probably won’t.

More people are likely to die. It looks like Hezbollah is preparing for some sort of major operation.

Yes, unfortunately.

The NYT and BBC and the like will have contributed to a lot of deaths with their misinformation. It is awful.

It is obvious that the Palestinians have suffered terribly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:no one here supports Hamas - stop these ridiculous claims. We support the INNOCENTS being killed, staved and deprived of basic human rights.

the root of the issue here is that Israel believes the invisible dude in the sky said that they can have the land Palastine currently occupi(ed). You can't convince them otherwise and they have justified their horrific treatment and war crimes against Palestinians because of this.

Biden is complicit in this horror and is going to pay at the polls.

No, you only support certain INNOCENTS. Non Jewish ones.

DP. I support all innocents. But unlike the Israeli government and many posters on this thread, I don't believe Jewish (Israeli) innocents are worth more than Palestinian innocents. The Israeli government's war crimes against civilians in Gaza over the past 10 days indicate that they do think this.

Point to posters who are saying Jewish lives are worth more.

The actions of the Israeli government clearly indicate that it thinks Jewish lives are worth more. It is defending its war crimes against civilians (killing and starving them) in Gaza by claiming its actions are "self-defense" for the Hamas terrorist attack that killed 1,500 Israelis and that it is trying to recover the ~200 hostages that were taken by Hamas. It has killed, injured, and destroyed the lives of way more than 1,500 civilians in Gaza, and has no intention of stopping. It keeps citing the 40 babies murdered by Hamas with apparently zero regard or self-awareness to the children it has killed in Gaza. Clearly it thinks Israeli/Jewish lives are worth more. If you support or defend the Israeli government's actions, then yes, I will assume you share this belief.

Under that logic, if I support anything the USA does, it means I support everything the US government does.

That’s such crap logic.

If the U.S. goes on a 10-day campaign of indiscriminately bombing civilians, or committing other war crimes (denying basic supplies necessary to sustain life and blocking humanitarian aid, for example) against civilians in the name of avenging U.S. civilians, and you openly defend it, then it's a completely logical inference that you think those civilians' lives are worth less than those of U.S. civilians. And to preempt the question of whether I protested the U.S.' actions in the Middle East, yes, I did.

You are devoid of the ability for any sort of nuanced argument.

You say people can support the Palestinians but not Hamas, but if anyone says they support Israel’s right to defend itself, suddenly it means they support everything Israel does and everything Bibi has ever said.

What a crock.

That's not what I said, and if you genuinely believe that, you're actually the one who's missing the nuance. Israel may have a right to defend itself, but its actions in Gaza over the past 10 days have far surpassed anything that is permissible under the concept of proportionality, which is a cornerstone of the right of self defense. You can support Israel's right to self defense and also understand that committing war crimes against civilians in Gaza is unacceptable. If you consider the war crimes to be a reasonable and acceptable part of Israel's "self-defense", then you are supporting abominable war crimes and it is a logical inference to say that you value innocent Israeli lives above innocent Palestinian lives.

Your claim that I said or implied that "if anyone says they support Israel’s right to defend itself, suddenly it means they support everything Israel does and everything Bibi has ever said" is the extreme logical leap here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden just said he has a deal with the Israelis to allow aid to flow into Gaza from Egypt.

What do the pro-Hamas people say now?

No one here is pro-Hamas.

Are you disappointed that some civilians won’t die? You seem a little agitated.

And you seem to have forgotten there were any Jewish civilians at all.

Jeff can check. I’ve never written that nor suggested it because I don’t feel that.

Even though we will never meet, I despise you. I’ve been attacked non-stop as a “terrorist” because I don’t want *any* civilians, let alone any particularly vulnerable people, to suffer. I’m just appalled by how casually people like you attack people who don’t want ground war, don’t want a broader conflict, don’t want rivers of blood sweeping up innocents. So while you’re not persuasive in a broad sense, you’ve convinced me of your cruelty.

[Anonymous]

Israel has support and sympathy and the high moral ground after the Hamas terror attacks, but Netanyahu is guaranteed to overplay his hand. Similar to when Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz et al used 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq. It’s never enough to only go after the people who are responsible. They can’t resist the opportunity to escalate.

[Anonymous]

The incompetence coming out of the Israeli Propaganda ministry is astounding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a pretty interesting thread about the hospital explosion:

https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1714611504513782048

I think the point about believing casualty numbers uncritically and unquestioningly before there was even any realistic chance of accurately evaluating those numbers is particularly well-taken. The news that there were hundreds of casualties in a claimed Israeli hospital strike went global without any real thought about whether it was even physically possible to accurately assess the supposed deaths.

Mainstream news organizations badly failed. People could have died worldwide because of that failure. I hope they look critically at their reporting, but they probably won’t.

More people are likely to die. It looks like Hezbollah is preparing for some sort of major operation.

Yes, unfortunately.

The NYT and BBC and the like will have contributed to a lot of deaths with their misinformation. It is awful.

It is obvious that the Palestinians have suffered terribly

And many more will suffer b/c people used this misinformation to deliberately fan the flames.

This will lead to terrorist strikes, anti-Semitic attacks, and retaliation (which will lead to more deaths).

Many more lives will be ruined b/c Hamas's useful idiots across the internet decided to lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:no one here supports Hamas - stop these ridiculous claims. We support the INNOCENTS being killed, staved and deprived of basic human rights.

the root of the issue here is that Israel believes the invisible dude in the sky said that they can have the land Palastine currently occupi(ed). You can't convince them otherwise and they have justified their horrific treatment and war crimes against Palestinians because of this.

Biden is complicit in this horror and is going to pay at the polls.

No, you only support certain INNOCENTS. Non Jewish ones.

DP. I support all innocents. But unlike the Israeli government and many posters on this thread, I don't believe Jewish (Israeli) innocents are worth more than Palestinian innocents. The Israeli government's war crimes against civilians in Gaza over the past 10 days indicate that they do think this.

Point to posters who are saying Jewish lives are worth more.

The actions of the Israeli government clearly indicate that it thinks Jewish lives are worth more. It is defending its war crimes against civilians (killing and starving them) in Gaza by claiming its actions are "self-defense" for the Hamas terrorist attack that killed 1,500 Israelis and that it is trying to recover the ~200 hostages that were taken by Hamas. It has killed, injured, and destroyed the lives of way more than 1,500 civilians in Gaza, and has no intention of stopping. It keeps citing the 40 babies murdered by Hamas with apparently zero regard or self-awareness to the children it has killed in Gaza. Clearly it thinks Israeli/Jewish lives are worth more. If you support or defend the Israeli government's actions, then yes, I will assume you share this belief.

Under that logic, if I support anything the USA does, it means I support everything the US government does.

That’s such crap logic.

If the U.S. goes on a 10-day campaign of indiscriminately bombing civilians, or committing other war crimes (denying basic supplies necessary to sustain life and blocking humanitarian aid, for example) against civilians in the name of avenging U.S. civilians, and you openly defend it, then it's a completely logical inference that you think those civilians' lives are worth less than those of U.S. civilians. And to preempt the question of whether I protested the U.S.' actions in the Middle East, yes, I did.

You are devoid of the ability for any sort of nuanced argument.

You say people can support the Palestinians but not Hamas, but if anyone says they support Israel’s right to defend itself, suddenly it means they support everything Israel does and everything Bibi has ever said.

What a crock.

That's not what I said, and if you genuinely believe that, you're actually the one who's missing the nuance. Israel may have a right to defend itself, but its actions in Gaza over the past 10 days have far surpassed anything that is permissible under the concept of proportionality, which is a cornerstone of the right of self defense. You can support Israel's right to self defense and also understand that committing war crimes against civilians in Gaza is unacceptable. If you consider the war crimes to be a reasonable and acceptable part of Israel's "self-defense", then you are supporting abominable war crimes and it is a logical inference to say that you value innocent Israeli lives above innocent Palestinian lives.

Your claim that I said or implied that "if anyone says they support Israel’s right to defend itself, suddenly it means they support everything Israel does and everything Bibi has ever said" is the extreme logical leap here.

Question: what do you think would have been the proportionate response to Hamas’s attack?

[Anonymous]

Interesting:
Israel wants to depopulate Gaza, drive everyone out. If that is not true, then let them take refuge in one of Israel’s deserts



What is happening now in Gaza is an attempt to force civilian residents to take refuge and migrate to Egypt, which should not be accepted," Abdul Fattah al-Sisi said.

He warned that were this to happen, the Egyptian people could "go out and protest in their millions".

Cairo has already warned that if Palestinians left their land, it could "liquidate" Palestinian hopes of statehood.

But it would also be very dangerous for the Egyptian government if it was seen as complicit in any such deal – igniting public anger in the Arab world.

Any influx of people would also deepen Egypt’s current economic crisis and raise security fears in its restive Sinai region.

Sisi suggested that as Gaza is in effect under Israeli control, Palestinians could instead be moved to Israel’s Negev desert during its offensive against Hamas "till the militants are dealt with"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a pretty interesting thread about the hospital explosion:

https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1714611504513782048

I think the point about believing casualty numbers uncritically and unquestioningly before there was even any realistic chance of accurately evaluating those numbers is particularly well-taken. The news that there were hundreds of casualties in a claimed Israeli hospital strike went global without any real thought about whether it was even physically possible to accurately assess the supposed deaths.

Mainstream news organizations badly failed. People could have died worldwide because of that failure. I hope they look critically at their reporting, but they probably won’t.

More people are likely to die. It looks like Hezbollah is preparing for some sort of major operation.

Yes, unfortunately.

The NYT and BBC and the like will have contributed to a lot of deaths with their misinformation. It is awful.

It is obvious that the Palestinians have suffered terribly

And many more will suffer b/c people used this misinformation to deliberately fan the flames.

This will lead to terrorist strikes, anti-Semitic attacks, and retaliation (which will lead to more deaths).

Many more lives will be ruined b/c Hamas's useful idiots across the internet decided to lie.

Yup. Doesn’t help that Rashida Tlaib tweeted the misinformation and hasn’t tweeted any sort of change in message, despite her own President and government saying their assessment is that it wasn’t Israel.

She’s a disgrace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a pretty interesting thread about the hospital explosion:

https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1714611504513782048

I think the point about believing casualty numbers uncritically and unquestioningly before there was even any realistic chance of accurately evaluating those numbers is particularly well-taken. The news that there were hundreds of casualties in a claimed Israeli hospital strike went global without any real thought about whether it was even physically possible to accurately assess the supposed deaths.

Mainstream news organizations badly failed. People could have died worldwide because of that failure. I hope they look critically at their reporting, but they probably won’t.

More people are likely to die. It looks like Hezbollah is preparing for some sort of major operation.

Yes, unfortunately.

The NYT and BBC and the like will have contributed to a lot of deaths with their misinformation. It is awful.

It is obvious that the Palestinians have suffered terribly

And many more will suffer b/c people used this misinformation to deliberately fan the flames.

This will lead to terrorist strikes, anti-Semitic attacks, and retaliation (which will lead to more deaths).

Many more lives will be ruined b/c Hamas's useful idiots across the internet decided to lie.

Decided to lie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting:
Israel wants to depopulate Gaza, drive everyone out. If that is not true, then let them take refuge in one of Israel’s deserts



What is happening now in Gaza is an attempt to force civilian residents to take refuge and migrate to Egypt, which should not be accepted," Abdul Fattah al-Sisi said.

He warned that were this to happen, the Egyptian people could "go out and protest in their millions".

Cairo has already warned that if Palestinians left their land, it could "liquidate" Palestinian hopes of statehood.

But it would also be very dangerous for the Egyptian government if it was seen as complicit in any such deal – igniting public anger in the Arab world.

Any influx of people would also deepen Egypt’s current economic crisis and raise security fears in its restive Sinai region.

Sisi suggested that as Gaza is in effect under Israeli control, Palestinians could instead be moved to Israel’s Negev desert during its offensive against Hamas "till the militants are dealt with"

You seriously think Israel should open the Negev up to Gazans?!

Do you realize what would happen if they did that?

[Anonymous]

What I am hearing from other news sources is that investigating a bombing takes time
Too soon to say conclusively what happened with the hospital bombing