Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a pretty interesting thread about the hospital explosion:

https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1714611504513782048

I think the point about believing casualty numbers uncritically and unquestioningly before there was even any realistic chance of accurately evaluating those numbers is particularly well-taken. The news that there were hundreds of casualties in a claimed Israeli hospital strike went global without any real thought about whether it was even physically possible to accurately assess the supposed deaths.

Mainstream news organizations badly failed. People could have died worldwide because of that failure. I hope they look critically at their reporting, but they probably won’t.

More people are likely to die. It looks like Hezbollah is preparing for some sort of major operation.

Yes, unfortunately.

The NYT and BBC and the like will have contributed to a lot of deaths with their misinformation. It is awful.

It is obvious that the Palestinians have suffered terribly

And many more will suffer b/c people used this misinformation to deliberately fan the flames.

This will lead to terrorist strikes, anti-Semitic attacks, and retaliation (which will lead to more deaths).

Many more lives will be ruined b/c Hamas's useful idiots across the internet decided to lie.

Decided to lie?

You think that these people are posting in good faith?

I don’t.

This has become a propaganda exercise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting:
Israel wants to depopulate Gaza, drive everyone out. If that is not true, then let them take refuge in one of Israel’s deserts



What is happening now in Gaza is an attempt to force civilian residents to take refuge and migrate to Egypt, which should not be accepted," Abdul Fattah al-Sisi said.

He warned that were this to happen, the Egyptian people could "go out and protest in their millions".

Cairo has already warned that if Palestinians left their land, it could "liquidate" Palestinian hopes of statehood.

But it would also be very dangerous for the Egyptian government if it was seen as complicit in any such deal – igniting public anger in the Arab world.

Any influx of people would also deepen Egypt’s current economic crisis and raise security fears in its restive Sinai region.

Sisi suggested that as Gaza is in effect under Israeli control, Palestinians could instead be moved to Israel’s Negev desert during its offensive against Hamas "till the militants are dealt with"

You seriously think Israel should open the Negev up to Gazans?!

Do you realize what would happen if they did that?

Tell me please
What will happen if they leave everyone to suffer and die where they are

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t any overwhelming support for Palestinians even among the Arab countries in the region.

Oh, really? I guess they’re just protesting for exercise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:no one here supports Hamas - stop these ridiculous claims. We support the INNOCENTS being killed, staved and deprived of basic human rights.

the root of the issue here is that Israel believes the invisible dude in the sky said that they can have the land Palastine currently occupi(ed). You can't convince them otherwise and they have justified their horrific treatment and war crimes against Palestinians because of this.

Biden is complicit in this horror and is going to pay at the polls.

No, you only support certain INNOCENTS. Non Jewish ones.

DP. I support all innocents. But unlike the Israeli government and many posters on this thread, I don't believe Jewish (Israeli) innocents are worth more than Palestinian innocents. The Israeli government's war crimes against civilians in Gaza over the past 10 days indicate that they do think this.

Point to posters who are saying Jewish lives are worth more.

The actions of the Israeli government clearly indicate that it thinks Jewish lives are worth more. It is defending its war crimes against civilians (killing and starving them) in Gaza by claiming its actions are "self-defense" for the Hamas terrorist attack that killed 1,500 Israelis and that it is trying to recover the ~200 hostages that were taken by Hamas. It has killed, injured, and destroyed the lives of way more than 1,500 civilians in Gaza, and has no intention of stopping. It keeps citing the 40 babies murdered by Hamas with apparently zero regard or self-awareness to the children it has killed in Gaza. Clearly it thinks Israeli/Jewish lives are worth more. If you support or defend the Israeli government's actions, then yes, I will assume you share this belief.

Under that logic, if I support anything the USA does, it means I support everything the US government does.

That’s such crap logic.

If the U.S. goes on a 10-day campaign of indiscriminately bombing civilians, or committing other war crimes (denying basic supplies necessary to sustain life and blocking humanitarian aid, for example) against civilians in the name of avenging U.S. civilians, and you openly defend it, then it's a completely logical inference that you think those civilians' lives are worth less than those of U.S. civilians. And to preempt the question of whether I protested the U.S.' actions in the Middle East, yes, I did.

You are devoid of the ability for any sort of nuanced argument.

You say people can support the Palestinians but not Hamas, but if anyone says they support Israel’s right to defend itself, suddenly it means they support everything Israel does and everything Bibi has ever said.

What a crock.

That's not what I said, and if you genuinely believe that, you're actually the one who's missing the nuance. Israel may have a right to defend itself, but its actions in Gaza over the past 10 days have far surpassed anything that is permissible under the concept of proportionality, which is a cornerstone of the right of self defense. You can support Israel's right to self defense and also understand that committing war crimes against civilians in Gaza is unacceptable. If you consider the war crimes to be a reasonable and acceptable part of Israel's "self-defense", then you are supporting abominable war crimes and it is a logical inference to say that you value innocent Israeli lives above innocent Palestinian lives.

Your claim that I said or implied that "if anyone says they support Israel’s right to defend itself, suddenly it means they support everything Israel does and everything Bibi has ever said" is the extreme logical leap here.

Question: what do you think would have been the proportionate response to Hamas’s attack?

Targeted assassinations of Hamas leadership. Increased pressure, both publicly and behind the scenes, on countries that support and provide assistance to Hamas. A military response that doesn't involve starving civilians or annihilation of the Gaza strip with zero regard to civilians, i.e., a special forces operation given that Gaza City is densely populated with civilians, or a limited bombing campaign that absolutely does not involve targeting southern Gaza (which the IDF is doing) and allows humanitarian aid in. Unfortunately all armed conflict involves collateral damage to civilians. That's not impermissible under the concept of self-defense. But what Israel is doing to civilians in Gaza goes far beyond that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting:
Israel wants to depopulate Gaza, drive everyone out. If that is not true, then let them take refuge in one of Israel’s deserts



What is happening now in Gaza is an attempt to force civilian residents to take refuge and migrate to Egypt, which should not be accepted," Abdul Fattah al-Sisi said.

He warned that were this to happen, the Egyptian people could "go out and protest in their millions".

Cairo has already warned that if Palestinians left their land, it could "liquidate" Palestinian hopes of statehood.

But it would also be very dangerous for the Egyptian government if it was seen as complicit in any such deal – igniting public anger in the Arab world.

Any influx of people would also deepen Egypt’s current economic crisis and raise security fears in its restive Sinai region.

Sisi suggested that as Gaza is in effect under Israeli control, Palestinians could instead be moved to Israel’s Negev desert during its offensive against Hamas "till the militants are dealt with"

You seriously think Israel should open the Negev up to Gazans?!

Do you realize what would happen if they did that?

Tell me please
What will happen if they leave everyone to suffer and die where they are

I can’t believe I have to spell this out.

Hamas fighters will leave in the crowd and begin their attacks again, just like on October 7th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I am hearing from other news sources is that investigating a bombing takes time
Too soon to say conclusively what happened with the hospital bombing

Right. Which is why all the people here in DCUM and also more broadly who immediately condemned the bombing as an Israeli strike with 500+ dead should be criticized for spreading misinformation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I am hearing from other news sources is that investigating a bombing takes time
Too soon to say conclusively what happened with the hospital bombing

What we know for sure though is that all the Israeli propaganda on the matter has been debunked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I am hearing from other news sources is that investigating a bombing takes time
Too soon to say conclusively what happened with the hospital bombing

Right. Which is why all the people here in DCUM and also more broadly who immediately condemned the bombing as an Israeli strike with 500+ dead should be criticized for spreading misinformation.

The US government said their analysis strongly suggests it was not Israeli.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I am hearing from other news sources is that investigating a bombing takes time
Too soon to say conclusively what happened with the hospital bombing

What we know for sure though is that all the Israeli propaganda on the matter has been debunked.

American officials say they have multiple strands of intelligence — including infrared satellite data — indicating that the deadly blast at a Gaza hospital on Tuesday was caused by an armed Palestinian group.

The intelligence includes satellite and other infrared data showing a launch of a rocket or missile from Palestinian fighter positions within Gaza. American intelligence agencies have also analyzed open-source video of the launch showing that it did not come from the direction of Israeli military positions, the officials said. Israeli officials have also provided the United States with intercepts of Hamas officials saying the strike came from forces aligned with Palestinian militant groups.

“While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open-source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday,” said Adrienne Watson, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council.

Other U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive information, cautioned that the analysis was preliminary and that they were continuing to collect and analyze evidence. Multiple officials said the evidence gathered so far refutes claims that Israeli forces were responsible for the blast and was strong enough for President Biden to make comments supporting Israel’s account of events.

[Anonymous]

You can’t fight a guérilla war with normal tactic and expect to win. There are going to be civilian casualties. That’s part of why war is awful. The whole idea that there are « rules » for war is so naive. War is war. The only thing that matters is who wins. In this case it is my best interest for Israel to win. If I have to choose between Israeli civilians or Palestinian civilians, I’m choosing the Israelis because they are the people least likely to want to kill me and destroy what America is and stands for. Easy choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting:
Israel wants to depopulate Gaza, drive everyone out. If that is not true, then let them take refuge in one of Israel’s deserts



What is happening now in Gaza is an attempt to force civilian residents to take refuge and migrate to Egypt, which should not be accepted," Abdul Fattah al-Sisi said.

He warned that were this to happen, the Egyptian people could "go out and protest in their millions".

Cairo has already warned that if Palestinians left their land, it could "liquidate" Palestinian hopes of statehood.

But it would also be very dangerous for the Egyptian government if it was seen as complicit in any such deal – igniting public anger in the Arab world.

Any influx of people would also deepen Egypt’s current economic crisis and raise security fears in its restive Sinai region.

Sisi suggested that as Gaza is in effect under Israeli control, Palestinians could instead be moved to Israel’s Negev desert during its offensive against Hamas "till the militants are dealt with"

You seriously think Israel should open the Negev up to Gazans?!

Do you realize what would happen if they did that?

Tell me please
What will happen if they leave everyone to suffer and die where they are

I can’t believe I have to spell this out.

Hamas fighters will leave in the crowd and begin their attacks again, just like on October 7th.

They'll also be unarmed, have to leave their rockets behind, and easier to weed out and catch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t any overwhelming support for Palestinians even among the Arab countries in the region.

Oh, really? I guess they’re just protesting for exercise

I don’t see any floodgates opening to welcome them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If what is in the photo is the extent of damage, to a parking lot, and the hospital building is intact, then the initial claims by Hamas are wildly false.

The Ny times is Hamas now? Bernie Sanders is Hamas ?

Everybody who isn’t lockstep with Israel is Hamas?

The lying and manipulation is not working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I am hearing from other news sources is that investigating a bombing takes time
Too soon to say conclusively what happened with the hospital bombing

What we know for sure though is that all the Israeli propaganda on the matter has been debunked.

American officials say they have multiple strands of intelligence — including infrared satellite data — indicating that the deadly blast at a Gaza hospital on Tuesday was caused by an armed Palestinian group.

The intelligence includes satellite and other infrared data showing a launch of a rocket or missile from Palestinian fighter positions within Gaza. American intelligence agencies have also analyzed open-source video of the launch showing that it did not come from the direction of Israeli military positions, the officials said. Israeli officials have also provided the United States with intercepts of Hamas officials saying the strike came from forces aligned with Palestinian militant groups.

“While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open-source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday,” said Adrienne Watson, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council.

Other U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive information, cautioned that the analysis was preliminary and that they were continuing to collect and analyze evidence. Multiple officials said the evidence gathered so far refutes claims that Israeli forces were responsible for the blast and was strong enough for President Biden to make comments supporting Israel’s account of events.

You’ll never convince the Hamas apologists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I am hearing from other news sources is that investigating a bombing takes time
Too soon to say conclusively what happened with the hospital bombing

Right. Which is why all the people here in DCUM and also more broadly who immediately condemned the bombing as an Israeli strike with 500+ dead should be criticized for spreading misinformation.

You might as well add everyone that said there were Hamas weapons and implied that it was a legitimate target