Seriously - all this grief over Joan Rivers?

[Anonymous]

This thread is just further evidence of how hard women have it in the world of comedy. True female comedians (there are still very few) are held to such a different standard. Why are some topics off limits for a white Jewish woman, but perfectly fine for black men, or wasp men? Imagine the outpouring of grief if Chris Rock were to pass?

She was groundbreaking and a pioneer and stood up to critics and haters while paving the way for female comics and giving her huge fan base great laughs.

This negativity and name-calling, labeling her a bully and a bitch, just shows what she faced as a female comic. Every half-decent comic hits on taboo topics, whether race, sexist jokes, ripping on celebrities, or whatever. But it's not okay for a woman to do it. Nice.

[Anonymous]

New poster. I was not a fan of Joan Rivers' brand of comedy. I don't like comedy that insults and mocks others. That doesn't mean I wished her dead or am happy she is dead. I can still recognize her as a pioneer in the industry without liking the jokes. And I would say that regardless of whether she was a man or a woman. Being a woman has nothing to do with not liking jokes that make fun of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Racist nasty unfunny "comedian" whose mouth is forever shut.

This is what I was going to write!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is just further evidence of how hard women have it in the world of comedy. True female comedians (there are still very few) are held to such a different standard. Why are some topics off limits for a white Jewish woman, but perfectly fine for black men, or wasp men? Imagine the outpouring of grief if Chris Rock were to pass?

She was groundbreaking and a pioneer and stood up to critics and haters while paving the way for female comics and giving her huge fan base great laughs.

This negativity and name-calling, labeling her a bully and a bitch, just shows what she faced as a female comic. Every half-decent comic hits on taboo topics, whether race, sexist jokes, ripping on celebrities, or whatever. But it's not okay for a woman to do it. Nice.

Oh please, get over it. It's so easy for people these days to say: They're just attacking her because they're jealous! They're just attacking her because they're sexist!

That's so lazy and so untrue. Where have any of us, or the OP, said anything about her gender? Trust me, if Tosh dies tomorrow and everyone calls him a saint, I'll be vomiting just as much. Get over your stupid sexism paranoia. Joan Rivers was awful and she'd be just as awful if she was John Rivers.

As Tywin said to Cersei on Game of Thrones: "I don't distrust you because you're a woman; I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I was not a fan of Joan Rivers' brand of comedy. I don't like comedy that insults and mocks others. That doesn't mean I wished her dead or am happy she is dead. I can still recognize her as a pioneer in the industry without liking the jokes. And I would say that regardless of whether she was a man or a woman. Being a woman has nothing to do with not liking jokes that make fun of people.

I'm the pp above you. Your perspective is perfectly fine by me. I am not at all condemning people that did not like her comedy. Everyone has different tastes. It's the people minimizing her career and the name calling. I take issue with people calling her a racist for making race related jokes. Practally every comedian does. Every comedian makes fun of celebrities. She made fun of everyone and everything. Just like every male comedian that came before and after her.

[Anonymous]

I don't like comedy that insults and mocks others.

I'm very curious as to what comedy you do like.

And for those accusing Rivers of saying horrible things about the way actors and actresses dressed, she also said very complimentary things about the way actors and actresses dressed. And many of the celebrities she "insulted" would come on her shows and laugh about it with her. Many seemed to really value her opinion. And she hasn't been on the actual red carpet in years, so I can't imagine why some people are saying they can't wait for the next awards show without her. She hosted a wrap-up show days later instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't like comedy that insults and mocks others.

I'm very curious as to what comedy you do like.

And for those accusing Rivers of saying horrible things about the way actors and actresses dressed, she also said very complimentary things about the way actors and actresses dressed. And many of the celebrities she "insulted" would come on her shows and laugh about it with her. Many seemed to really value her opinion. And she hasn't been on the actual red carpet in years, so I can't imagine why some people are saying they can't wait for the next awards show without her. She hosted a wrap-up show days later instead.

You think that all comedy insults and mocks people? I don't agree at all. I also think there are degrees of making fun of people. I found many of her jokes vicious and unnecessarily hurtful. There are plenty of comedians who don't do that. I'm no Kim Kardashian fan, but making fun of a baby? Really? Things like that seem like cheap shots for an easy laugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is just further evidence of how hard women have it in the world of comedy. True female comedians (there are still very few) are held to such a different standard. Why are some topics off limits for a white Jewish woman, but perfectly fine for black men, or wasp men? Imagine the outpouring of grief if Chris Rock were to pass?

She was groundbreaking and a pioneer and stood up to critics and haters while paving the way for female comics and giving her huge fan base great laughs.

This negativity and name-calling, labeling her a bully and a bitch, just shows what she faced as a female comic. Every half-decent comic hits on taboo topics, whether race, sexist jokes, ripping on celebrities, or whatever. But it's not okay for a woman to do it. Nice.

Oh please, get over it. It's so easy for people these days to say: They're just attacking her because they're jealous! They're just attacking her because they're sexist!

That's so lazy and so untrue. Where have any of us, or the OP, said anything about her gender? Trust me, if Tosh dies tomorrow and everyone calls him a saint, I'll be vomiting just as much. Get over your stupid sexism paranoia. Joan Rivers was awful and she'd be just as awful if she was John Rivers.

As Tywin said to Cersei on Game of Thrones: "I don't distrust you because you're a woman; I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are."

I completely disagree with your point of view, but since I've never heard of Tosh (who?) I'll help you out with a better analogy: Don Rickles.

[Anonymous]

Trust me, if Tosh dies tomorrow and everyone calls him a saint, I'll be vomiting just as much.

For PP who doesn't know who this is, it's Daniel Tosh who has a show on Comedy Central called Tosh.0. It's very funny.

This is all making me wonder how Howard Stern's passing will be received when his time comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't like comedy that insults and mocks others.

I'm very curious as to what comedy you do like.

And for those accusing Rivers of saying horrible things about the way actors and actresses dressed, she also said very complimentary things about the way actors and actresses dressed. And many of the celebrities she "insulted" would come on her shows and laugh about it with her. Many seemed to really value her opinion. And she hasn't been on the actual red carpet in years, so I can't imagine why some people are saying they can't wait for the next awards show without her. She hosted a wrap-up show days later instead.

You think that all comedy insults and mocks people? I don't agree at all. I also think there are degrees of making fun of people. I found many of her jokes vicious and unnecessarily hurtful. There are plenty of comedians who don't do that. I'm no Kim Kardashian fan, but making fun of a baby? Really? Things like that seem like cheap shots for an easy laugh.

Move to strike, non-responsive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Trust me, if Tosh dies tomorrow and everyone calls him a saint, I'll be vomiting just as much.

For PP who doesn't know who this is, it's Daniel Tosh who has a show on Comedy Central called Tosh.0. It's very funny.

This is all making me wonder how Howard Stern's passing will be received when his time comes.

I would be good money that most people on the street have no idea who Tosh is (I know my parents don't) but have heard of Joan Rivers whose groundbreaking career spanned more years than Tosh has been alive.

Howard Stern isn't a so-called insult comic. Don Rickles is and his career has been similarly long-lived.

[Anonymous]

*bet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is just further evidence of how hard women have it in the world of comedy. True female comedians (there are still very few) are held to such a different standard. Why are some topics off limits for a white Jewish woman, but perfectly fine for black men, or wasp men? Imagine the outpouring of grief if Chris Rock were to pass?

She was groundbreaking and a pioneer and stood up to critics and haters while paving the way for female comics and giving her huge fan base great laughs.

This negativity and name-calling, labeling her a bully and a bitch, just shows what she faced as a female comic. Every half-decent comic hits on taboo topics, whether race, sexist jokes, ripping on celebrities, or whatever. But it's not okay for a woman to do it. Nice.

+1000

It's why I love Sarah Silverman. She does everything she can to expose this ugly truth, including hitting people over the head with it.

Though I do not always find her comedy "funny" on it's face, the incongruity of aggressive, biting and sometimes even vile comedy bits coming from a woman who looks and sounds like her is both political and performance art. I deeply respect and appreciate her, even more so after reading her autobiography. Joan Rivers, too. And Amy Poeler who also doesn't hesitate to call out this BS.

Go ladies, go!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

MarleySkye840 wrote:Any time someone dies, we typically mourn them. JR was not a murderer, rapist, or terrorist, she was just a "mean girl". I put that in quotes because I think she was actually a nice person in real life but her schtick was to be a rude bitch for laughs.

RIP

except she wasn't funny.

also, if you ever saw her weak attempt at a (very short lived) talk show, one of the guests was a school girl getting bullied in school. the kid talked about how awful the other girls were--name calling, calling her fat. she was oozing sympathy for this kid, but she was a first class hypocrite.

Oh, you are the authoritative judge of humor? Different people have different senses of humor and it is rare that a comedian appeals to everyone. Joan Rivers was extremely popular. You can judge by the fact that she had such a long and lucrative career. She was still doing stand-up comedy and shows until her death. She had events lined up that had to be canceled/postponed when the first news that complications had occurred. She was still popular and in demand.

The fact that she was a regular fill-in host for the Tonight Show in Johnny Carson's era says that a lot of people found her quite entertaining. Also, if you saw her as a talk-show host doing interviews instead of stand-up, you would see a different side of her. There, she was a very nice. Don't conflate her personality as a comedian with her personality as a person. Sometimes a person's "work persona" is different from their private persona. This is like confusing an actor in character with who they are in private.

But more to the point, the reason that she is considered such an icon is how she changed the perception of female comedians. Before Sara Silverman and Tina Fey or Whoopi Goldberg and Ellen Degeneres, and even Gilda Radner, Jane Curtin, Lorraine Newman, Lily Tomlin, and many other classic comedians, Joan Rivers paved the way in the 1950's for women to break into the male entertainment world of comedy. When she started, comedy was much raunchier. Look at the comedy of the 1950's, it was much cruder than the comedy of today. And she was trying to be one of the first women to be recognized in that male-dominated career. Many, many women owe her a lot for her breaking gender barriers in entertainment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Trust me, if Tosh dies tomorrow and everyone calls him a saint, I'll be vomiting just as much.

For PP who doesn't know who this is, it's Daniel Tosh who has a show on Comedy Central called Tosh.0. It's very funny.

This is all making me wonder how Howard Stern's passing will be received when his time comes.

I wonder too. People still judge him by his 80s stuff.

Howard Stern is a persona. He says a lot of "vile" stuff that is just schtick. And he's toned it down a lot with age.

He isn't a celeb ass-kisser, and that's what people like about him. He doesn't have to sit around and act like Brad Pitt is doing something amazing by being in yet another movie -- you should hear how they mock self-important actors when they play news clips. He doesn't have to pretend Lena Dunham is a great beauty -- although he likes her and her show very much. BTW I've read meaner things about Lena on this board.

He was also one of the first celebs to speak openly in favor of gay marriage. He's staunchly pro-choice. He willingly admitted he was wrong for supporting the Iraq War. He and his wife are very involved in taking care of and raising money for abandoned and abused animals. He and his ex-wife also managed to keep their 3 daughters out of the public eye and on the straight and narrow, despite their very privileged lives.