Setting firm boundaries with someone who's abusive

[Anonymous]

It's a contradiction in terms to set clear boundaries with someone who's abusive. being abusive means not respecting boundaries.

You can't get him to stop, you've tried that for years. You have to leave.

[Anonymous]

OP again.

He started counseling a few weeks ago. I joined him in a session last night. He lied, and blamed me for the things he didn't deny.

I think I made it clear to the counselor that this is not a joint issue that needs to be worked on. With all of his lying, who knows what she thinks. She did ask me to continue coming to the sessions. Joint counseling is not advised when people are dealing with abuse. He's not going to make much progress with so much denial and lying. It's frustrating.

Do I just leave him and his counselor to work this stuff out? Do I go back to tell her that he isn't being honest? Any counselors on here have a suggestion?

[Anonymous]

stop telling him anything and just do. You won't be taken seriously, because you talk and nag. You need to just do.

Also, go to Alanon.

[Anonymous]

if you want to work on your marriage go to the counseling. And tell him and her at the same time what is not true. Only if he is confronted in front of the therapist will it change.

Also, if you don't want to do it anymore, just leave. Stop talking aobut it and just do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What has worked for us is a diagnosis of a mental health disorder, proper meds, and then counseling to understand the various reasons to carry around so much rage, the reasons it gets acted out, the triggers, and the tools to recognize when it's about to happen and nip it in the bud.

+1. He needs a psychiatrist (MD), not just counseling. If he's not willing or able to consider meds in addition to regular counseling, I agree with the other PP that you need to consult with a divorce lawyer and get your ducks in a row. I'm sorry this is happening to you. My father was like this and I am grateful 30 years later that my mother got us out. I've gone through two bought of therapy to deal with repercussions of his behavior on me. You do need to protect your children. I still remember how terrifying my father was to me as a child, because you never knew what would set him off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is the anger from? Is it a symptom of mental illness? Poor coping skills? Family anger? Childhood abuse?

He needs to not just deal with it behaviorally but to understand it or it will just keep coming back. Anger is like pain - just a symptom of the bigger problem. You need to find and treat the source.

This. What do you know of his early childhood?
Was he neglected in any way?
Whatever it was, it's NO excuse to be abusive.

His childhood was not easy. When I spoke to his sister about this, she said it was a huge problem when he was a teen/young adult. She said their mother was afraid of him. It's not an excuse to be abusive, though he offers excuses along with apologies after one of these blow ups. He needs to find a better way to communicate.

My plan is to just walk out and go to a friend's house or a hotel when/if it happens again. I hope 24-48 hours out of the house will be enough to make it clear.

Thanks for the advice.

It won't be. Don't kid yourself, OP. If your husband has been like this since he was a teenager, he is not going to change. 48 hours at a friend's house won't change him. He has to want to change, not for you or for anyone else, but for himself. He obviously doesn't want to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:stop telling him anything and just do. You won't be taken seriously, because you talk and nag. You need to just do.

Also, go to Alanon.

+1

[Anonymous]

There is NO reason for him to change bc OP is putting up with it. Leave and be happy. For your kids sake, leace!

[Anonymous]

OMG OP. I have written about my exact same situation many times on this forum. Its been HELL.

My husband finally got a diagnosis of depression and ADHD, and finally got some meds that have leveled him out considerably. But he can still be a real ass- self righteous and self pitying. And he is still in denial, and has lied to therapists, and the whole nine yards. But with medication, I have seen glimmers of the person I know begin to emerge. I dont know what it means, or if it will be enough to save the marriage. But its definitely more than I ever expected. And it took the real threat to divorce, which has not been taken off the table yet at all.

His verbal and emotional abuse came on over a period of time. I think he is trying to change but its going to be such a long haul.

Its been awful OP. ive felt so alone. People here have been pretty kind- and Ive found others in the same point. I wish there was a way we could talk but privacy is so important to me and no doubt to you as well. Counselors are almost useless for this kind of ONE SIDED PROBLEM. I know ALL about that. THey all see what is going on and are powerless to help.

[Anonymous]

This could certainly be me too, how do you find the strength to get out when your worn down? I know I want out and I can't muster the strength to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
In the end, I did leave. See, I thought the threat of leaving was enough. Even when he did leave, I thought he'd be back within a couple of weeks. We had a family and so much to lose. How could it all be over?

So, I wonder if you are seeing leaving as a tactic (as I did) or as a truly viable solution to the issue? Think about that. I don't think my husband took me seriously because he saw what I didn't see until a couple of years later. He knew my end game was remaining intact as a family, not an end to his abuse.

Are you looking into why you continue to be involved with a man who rages like this? Other posters have asked about the root of his issues. I'm asking you to look into your self and do the work that it'll take to be understand your motivations and behavior. Clears up your choices, it really does. It will also be apparent to your DH that you are moving on, into a space that doesn't include this violent BS.

It's a process. Took me two years after the divorce to let go of the idea of getting back together. I filed exactly 6 months to the day of giving him notice to get out, with the hope that this would get him to see how bad his behavior had become. I thought co-parenting would allow us to find a good place, that he couldn't abuse me from that distance. Nope. He falls into it whenever I give him the chance.

What's changed, OP? You said you've been in this relationship for 10 years and that your DH's behavior pre-dates your marriage. So, why now?

It's not about a rental agreement or retaining a lawyer. Firming up your sense of self and how you will allow yourself to be treated is what's most powerful. Focus on that.

OP here again. This message finally clicked today. I will be eternally grateful that you posted it.

I decided to call his therapist this morning to tell her this has been a problem since he was a teen. I told her I thought he'd be better off in an abuser treatment program, but it is beyond my control. I think she sees the whole picture now. I hope the counseling does something to help. I'm taking steps to work on documentation and will see an attorney soon. I'm trying to move through every step I can get through now, so it less daunting and scary if he starts with this stuff again. I can just walk out. I've done all the talking I can do. It's up to him to make a decision. I've washed my hands of it.

I've been checking out and accepting all of this as something that was controllable. If I just did X, Y and Z, he wouldn't have anything to get upset about. I've seen that for the bullshit it really is, and I'm done with it. That one piece has given me a sense of freedom. I'm free from the guilt and responsibility of his abuse problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This could certainly be me too, how do you find the strength to get out when your worn down? I know I want out and I can't muster the strength to do it.

I've been that way for so many years. I can't let my daughter get there too. I had an epiphany. He's not as scary now because I know what he says is bullshit. Letting go of that constant effort to keep things calm is amazing. I finally believe it isn't my fault. He still believes it is, but I am caring a lot less about what he thinks now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could certainly be me too, how do you find the strength to get out when your worn down? I know I want out and I can't muster the strength to do it.

I've been that way for so many years. I can't let my daughter get there too. I had an epiphany. He's not as scary now because I know what he says is bullshit. Letting go of that constant effort to keep things calm is amazing. I finally believe it isn't my fault. He still believes it is, but I am caring a lot less about what he thinks now.

Im one of the PP's in this boat. I also do not want my daughter growing up this way. DH may be improving slowly, but I am beginning to think he may be too far gone to ever have a happy marriage with. I might be able to achieve "ok".

The only thing that really kept me in this marraige besides false hope that the guy I married would come back or even ever existed is the fact that I am completely financially dependent on him. I also homeschool our daughter because the public school system would not accomodate her and we cannot afford the wonderful private montessori school we swumg for one year to rescue her from the public school situation. She is thriving, but she also has anxiety and ADD issues. Its such a terrible mess. I hope I can just keep things around here stable enough for her while I somehow figure out a way to make a living around homeschooling, or at least get something started and eventually maybe she can re-integrate into a public school.

To the poster quoted at top, I think you and I will probably both need to figure out a way to rebuild ourselves while still in the marriage in order to find that strength to leave.

If I had an independent career, I would have moved out long ago. Im not sure it would have been the right thing then, but by the time I manage to do it, it will be the right and only right thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could certainly be me too, how do you find the strength to get out when your worn down? I know I want out and I can't muster the strength to do it.

I've been that way for so many years. I can't let my daughter get there too. I had an epiphany. He's not as scary now because I know what he says is bullshit. Letting go of that constant effort to keep things calm is amazing. I finally believe it isn't my fault. He still believes it is, but I am caring a lot less about what he thinks now.

Im one of the PP's in this boat. I also do not want my daughter growing up this way. DH may be improving slowly, but I am beginning to think he may be too far gone to ever have a happy marriage with. I might be able to achieve "ok".

The only thing that really kept me in this marraige besides false hope that the guy I married would come back or even ever existed is the fact that I am completely financially dependent on him. I also homeschool our daughter because the public school system would not accomodate her and we cannot afford the wonderful private montessori school we swumg for one year to rescue her from the public school situation. She is thriving, but she also has anxiety and ADD issues. Its such a terrible mess. I hope I can just keep things around here stable enough for her while I somehow figure out a way to make a living around homeschooling, or at least get something started and eventually maybe she can re-integrate into a public school.

To the poster quoted at top, I think you and I will probably both need to figure out a way to rebuild ourselves while still in the marriage in order to find that strength to leave.

If I had an independent career, I would have moved out long ago. Im not sure it would have been the right thing then, but by the time I manage to do it, it will be the right and only right thing.

A big part of my motivation is the realization that I'm teaching my daughter this is what love is supposed to be like.

I started reading a book on codependency because it had info on setting boundaries. I'm shocked about how much of it is accurate. It says in hurting him by letting it continue without consequence and I'm losing myself in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could certainly be me too, how do you find the strength to get out when your worn down? I know I want out and I can't muster the strength to do it.

I've been that way for so many years. I can't let my daughter get there too. I had an epiphany. He's not as scary now because I know what he says is bullshit. Letting go of that constant effort to keep things calm is amazing. I finally believe it isn't my fault. He still believes it is, but I am caring a lot less about what he thinks now.

Im one of the PP's in this boat. I also do not want my daughter growing up this way. DH may be improving slowly, but I am beginning to think he may be too far gone to ever have a happy marriage with. I might be able to achieve "ok".

The only thing that really kept me in this marraige besides false hope that the guy I married would come back or even ever existed is the fact that I am completely financially dependent on him. I also homeschool our daughter because the public school system would not accomodate her and we cannot afford the wonderful private montessori school we swumg for one year to rescue her from the public school situation. She is thriving, but she also has anxiety and ADD issues. Its such a terrible mess. I hope I can just keep things around here stable enough for her while I somehow figure out a way to make a living around homeschooling, or at least get something started and eventually maybe she can re-integrate into a public school.

To the poster quoted at top, I think you and I will probably both need to figure out a way to rebuild ourselves while still in the marriage in order to find that strength to leave.

If I had an independent career, I would have moved out long ago. Im not sure it would have been the right thing then, but by the time I manage to do it, it will be the right and only right thing.

A big part of my motivation is the realization that I'm teaching my daughter this is what love is supposed to be like.

I started reading a book on codependency because it had info on setting boundaries. I'm shocked about how much of it is accurate. It says in hurting him by letting it continue without consequence and I'm losing myself in the process.

PP here. YES. Exactly.

I have never considered myself a co-dependent because I am in fact not. DH is manipulative and selfish, and managed to elude EVERY therapist AND psychiatrist using techniques of deception and self deception in the perfect combo.

Now that the kitty is out of the bag, he is still completely in denial about the long term consequences of his years of inexcusable behavior. He just recently stated that he now sees how out of control he was, thanks to medication and time. I asked him to put that in writing- just a few things that he sees so I can have it tangibly. He said "Do I _have_ to write it down?" ilke its a big fucking bother. I saud calmly, yes, actually, you do. I need to have something you say be in tangible form.

A few weeks later when he had not done it I told him i thurt me that he didnt understand why I needed it and acted like it was a bother. This is via email because he is out of town. He wrote back a farily brief and nice note that addressed the things in question SORT of but then he added a couple of paragraphs about how he is demeaned by me "acting like" he wants going to write it. Then he was all pissy about how little itme he had that day and "all he had one" was write to me.

He could not grasp that this was not the sincere thing I was looking for. He cannot comprehend, because he is SO SELFISH, that its NOT NICE to write to the spouse that you know you have verbally abused for YEARS an email with a tone that lets her know how much it wastes your time to tell her anything. Then we talked briefly on the phone this morning and he told me that when "something is wrong with you, I lose focus" from his tasks at hand. WHAT AN ASS. I had to explain that his focus is not the only thing that matters, that I too have focus that gets thrown off when HE treats me like a bother for expressing emotions and feelings that are the direct result of his abuse.

I am starting to think I need to TELL him that I realize he does not nor ever has, and probably never will care about my feelings. But you know what? All that will do is destabilize his fragile self esteem and give him an excuse to abuse me further. And that is not going to happen.