Setting firm boundaries with someone who's abusive

[Anonymous]

PP here. YES. Exactly.

I have never considered myself a co-dependent because I am in fact not. DH is manipulative and selfish, and managed to elude EVERY therapist AND psychiatrist using techniques of deception and self deception in the perfect combo.

Now that the kitty is out of the bag, he is still completely in denial about the long term consequences of his years of inexcusable behavior. He just recently stated that he now sees how out of control he was, thanks to medication and time. I asked him to put that in writing- just a few things that he sees so I can have it tangibly. He said "Do I _have_ to write it down?" ilke its a big fucking bother. I saud calmly, yes, actually, you do. I need to have something you say be in tangible form.

A few weeks later when he had not done it I told him i thurt me that he didnt understand why I needed it and acted like it was a bother. This is via email because he is out of town. He wrote back a farily brief and nice note that addressed the things in question SORT of but then he added a couple of paragraphs about how he is demeaned by me "acting like" he wants going to write it. Then he was all pissy about how little itme he had that day and "all he had one" was write to me.

He could not grasp that this was not the sincere thing I was looking for. He cannot comprehend, because he is SO SELFISH, that its NOT NICE to write to the spouse that you know you have verbally abused for YEARS an email with a tone that lets her know how much it wastes your time to tell her anything. Then we talked briefly on the phone this morning and he told me that when "something is wrong with you, I lose focus" from his tasks at hand. WHAT AN ASS. I had to explain that his focus is not the only thing that matters, that I too have focus that gets thrown off when HE treats me like a bother for expressing emotions and feelings that are the direct result of his abuse.

I am starting to think I need to TELL him that I realize he does not nor ever has, and probably never will care about my feelings. But you know what? All that will do is destabilize his fragile self esteem and give him an excuse to abuse me further. And that is not going to happen.

Please dont take this the wrong way (eg aggressively, as criticism) but reading your post, I'm struck by the fact that you're still wanting/needing your DH (separated?) to validate your feelings and point of view. But as you said yourself, that is probably never going to happen. He has an illness that prevents him from this, and by dangling out in front of you the admission that he messed up, but then withholding the written acknowledgment, he's exerting whatever power he has left from the distance you have put him. He will not have ANY power once you stop caring, truly and completely, whether he ever admits to things. I know its infuriating and you feel that you want his recognition and acknowledgment of the damage he's done, but people who do this kind of stuff are not able to admit it. Their entire sense of self is predicated on falsehood and seeing things in their own narcissistc way and the only reason they offer apologies and mea culpas is to pull you back into the drama.

I hope you can continue to separate yourself and find peace.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I need to let go of this everlasting hope that he will take responsibility. It's surprisingly difficult.

I talked to his sister today. She says I need to accept the responsibility for my part. He's been taught this behavior is ok for a very long time. I told her asking him to stop the abuse will never again be on a contingency plan. This is their issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP here. YES. Exactly.

I have never considered myself a co-dependent because I am in fact not. DH is manipulative and selfish, and managed to elude EVERY therapist AND psychiatrist using techniques of deception and self deception in the perfect combo.

Now that the kitty is out of the bag, he is still completely in denial about the long term consequences of his years of inexcusable behavior. He just recently stated that he now sees how out of control he was, thanks to medication and time. I asked him to put that in writing- just a few things that he sees so I can have it tangibly. He said "Do I _have_ to write it down?" ilke its a big fucking bother. I saud calmly, yes, actually, you do. I need to have something you say be in tangible form.

A few weeks later when he had not done it I told him i thurt me that he didnt understand why I needed it and acted like it was a bother. This is via email because he is out of town. He wrote back a farily brief and nice note that addressed the things in question SORT of but then he added a couple of paragraphs about how he is demeaned by me "acting like" he wants going to write it. Then he was all pissy about how little itme he had that day and "all he had one" was write to me.

He could not grasp that this was not the sincere thing I was looking for. He cannot comprehend, because he is SO SELFISH, that its NOT NICE to write to the spouse that you know you have verbally abused for YEARS an email with a tone that lets her know how much it wastes your time to tell her anything. Then we talked briefly on the phone this morning and he told me that when "something is wrong with you, I lose focus" from his tasks at hand. WHAT AN ASS. I had to explain that his focus is not the only thing that matters, that I too have focus that gets thrown off when HE treats me like a bother for expressing emotions and feelings that are the direct result of his abuse.

I am starting to think I need to TELL him that I realize he does not nor ever has, and probably never will care about my feelings. But you know what? All that will do is destabilize his fragile self esteem and give him an excuse to abuse me further. And that is not going to happen.

Please dont take this the wrong way (eg aggressively, as criticism) but reading your post, I'm struck by the fact that you're still wanting/needing your DH (separated?) to validate your feelings and point of view. But as you said yourself, that is probably never going to happen. He has an illness that prevents him from this, and by dangling out in front of you the admission that he messed up, but then withholding the written acknowledgment, he's exerting whatever power he has left from the distance you have put him. He will not have ANY power once you stop caring, truly and completely, whether he ever admits to things. I know its infuriating and you feel that you want his recognition and acknowledgment of the damage he's done, but people who do this kind of stuff are not able to admit it. Their entire sense of self is predicated on falsehood and seeing things in their own narcissistc way and the only reason they offer apologies and mea culpas is to pull you back into the drama.

I hope you can continue to separate yourself and find peace.

I really appreciate your thoughtful response. No offense at all.

What you are picking up on maybe more than anything is my lack of solid evidence that he _always_ had this mental illness. I am struggling with trying to recall what he was like before. When it comes back to me, I can see that NO he was NOT always like this. His descent into this worst of him began very clearly with the stress of his failing career due to the recession.

Yet now I am coming to believe he has suffered from depression and anxiety since he was a kid, but that he masked it very well with building his career and attaining success in a field that most people who even attempt it cant make work at all. I think for a while he was actually doing pretty well- that was when I married him.

His decent was so gradual and so nuanced. I cant even describe how that is possible, but it is.

[Anonymous]

PP here- DH is out of town on a work contract. So we got a freebie temporary separation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I need to let go of this everlasting hope that he will take responsibility. It's surprisingly difficult.

I talked to his sister today. She says I need to accept the responsibility for my part. He's been taught this behavior is ok for a very long time. I told her asking him to stop the abuse will never again be on a contingency plan. This is their issue.

OP -PP here.

Was he really always like this? How long have you been married?

I am struggling to figure out if that makes a difference. Im wondering if his behavior was an inevitable consequence of his childhood, and possibly anxiety and depression that he had BACK THEN that went undiagnosed, OR, if this really came on with _extreme_ stress, including chronic back pain and a failing career during the recession.

I think it would make a difference to me to understand how these things relate. I just wish I understood how broken he really is. He had have moments of clarity in which he appeared to see, but when the depression kicked in full swing, he saw nothing. And still after over a year of treatment he sees nothing. He does not respond to therapy. All of our therapists throw their hands up in the air. His new psychiatrist may offer some hope. I think I need to tell her what is going on in more detail. I dont know anymore.

[Anonymous]

I've known him for 15 years. He had this problem in his late teens, according to his family. He told me he was verbally abusive to his last long time girlfriend.

I don't know if it's mental illness or an issue of utter entitlement. I don't really care anymore, tbh.

While I'm sure I'll get flamed for admitting this, there was a child abuse case against him 10 years ago. He seemed to be taking it seriously for a while. I left when he blamed me after we left court one day. He said I shouldn't have taken her to the doctor, who called CPS. He went through classes and therapy back then, and I went back after 2 years. That was a bad choice.

I'm prepping to leave. It won't be easy on $50K a year. I have someplace to go if I need to get out in a hurry.

[Anonymous]

I see. Yes that is extreme. in that case it really doesnt matter what the root cause.

If he had crossed the line physically with me or our child, that would make me think really differently too.

If I had $50K a year I would have been gone long ago, even without that as part of the history. I dont blame you for going back after two years. We dont get a guidebook for this thing called life. Obviously you knew less than you do now.

You have your answer OP. He is a bully. Im so sorry. You can definitely manage on that income- not in high style but in PEACE. Good Luck.