Can I go on vacation out of state with my kids if DH and I have no custody agreement?

[Anonymous]

OP could fly her elderly parents out and have them come stay for seven weeks.

I’m sure spouse would love that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You cannot take children across state lines without the consent of both parents. I used to work in a job where we sent children on trips and if both parents were not going, they both needed to sign all the paperwork agreeing that the child could go. I don't know if that rule is specific to certain states, but it was definitely the case when I had that job.

We got into this with our neighbors who were divorcing - the dad wouldn't take his kids on the big dad/kid trip our friend group does every year and it happened to fall on the weekend the wife had the kids so she asked other dads if they would take her kids (which we had done in the past for certain dads couldn't attend for whatever reason). The answer was no because they were going out of state (driving, but still crossing state lines) and we weren't going to get into it with her husband, who sounds like OP's husband.

What? Of course you can! Who's going to stop you? I've done this without explicit permission from my DH. My parents live in Chicago and have taken my kids to Indiana Dunes without explicit permission. You just can't take them across state lines to exploit them.

It very much depends on the state. And even if it’s not a state with strict parental kidnaping law, the dad can file for temporary emergency custody. 7 weeks out of state unilaterally isn’t going to be kindly viewed by the judge.

Errrrr...I've lived 5 miles from state lines twice in my life and never once asked DH if I cross them with the kids.

Are you being purposefully obtuse?

Yes, I crossed state lines with my kids last weekend, but my husband was fine with. OP's husband is telling her she cannot take the kids out of state. This is obviously a different situation she is dealing with. He has explicitly told her she cannot take the kids out of state. Do you want her to roll the dice and find out what happens if she does so against his explicit instructions?

Did you get lost on your way to Saudi Arabia?

They’re still married. She can take her children wherever she wants including out of the country. Yes he could file a fraudulent order of emergency custody but a judge seeing that and then coming to understand that a teacher has taken her children to see their grandparents every summer continued to do so this summer is really, really unlikely to see a kidnapped.

Once again, the parental kidnaping laws vary from state to state. I bet you anything that OP plans to relocate permanently there, she just won’t admit it.

What state law forbids a married parent from taking their kid out of state. I’ll wait.

If they are married there is nothing stopping her from taking them. Even if they are divorced and there is an order, rarely do they hold the mother accountable for custody/visitation refusal.

If you take a child out of state for 2 months at the beginning of rancorous divorce proceedings, over the objections of their other parent, you best be ready for legal action.

Except they aren’t at the beginning of rancorous divorce proceedings. Nothing has been filed. What OP would be doing is keeping the kids on their status quo summer schedule and maintaining normalcy for her children. Yes could her DH file a false police report and get her in trouble? Maybe. But he could do the same if she goes to the mall. Living in fear of the irrational partners behavior is no way to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I usually take my kids to see my parents for 7 weeks in the summer. I am a teacher so I can do this. They live across the country. DH and I are parallel parenting in same house but nothing formal filed. He said if I take them on the date I usually take them then he will file an order in court and get the police to come to my parent's house when I get there. I am going to talk to a lawyer, but since this "talk" just happened, looking to the folks on DCUM to tell me if he can actually do this. He also wants to dictate when I must come back. My parents are in their late 80s and they don't come here anymore so I want to spend as much time as possible and so do my kids who are in upper elementary. Legally, can he dictate my dates?

What are the police going to do when they get there? Is your husband going to come with them and get the kids? What’s he going to do with them when they get home and you are still with your parents? Is he expecting that you will just come back and parallel parent?

This sounds like more of a threat than a reality to me. He is scared, and he wants some control.

No, he could absolutely file for emergency custody and then get the order enforced by local police. This is not something to take lightly. Who knows if he would actually do it. But taking the kids out of state unilaterally for months is a really very bad idea. OP needs to wrap her head around the fact that she needs to compromise.

On NO planet will he get an emergency order. On top of that, enforcement across state lines is a joke. It is an empty threat, but you are doing yourself no favors if you go without his consent. I’d suggest coming to an agreement about 4 weeks and then hope he likes having you guys gone and isn’t anxious for your return. Then 4 weeks can turn to five to six, etc etc.

This is exactly why they are heading for divorce. If he says no, she should respect it or compromise at 2-3 weeks.

Because he’s a man? Because he’s making threats?

That’s not how it works. She says yes, and the trip is status quo which courts uphold in divorces. He can offer to find and pay childcare so the kids stay home with him, but she’s not a prisoner.

How about they both work tougher and find child care if she wants to go away for the entire summer. Their problem is they refuse to work together. He probably is paying for the bulk of the expense if she refuses to divorce and they are still living together was she does't have the income to support a second household which is why its suspicious that she'd move away.

Why should she find childcare? She has already offered 7 weeks of childcare at no cost to him. He turns that down it’s his problem.

You parent your kids. You are not a child care provider. Both the parents can work together to make a child care plan while she chooses to go out of town. These parents need to divorce if they cannot work together.

Exactly. She’s choosing to parent her kids in their grandparents home as she has in previous summers. He’s the one with an issue, he’s the one who needs to solve it or quit whining.

They are not her kids, they are their kids and its a joint decision.

It’s really not. He cannot prevent her from traveling, and short of filing for custody which he hasn’t done, he can’t prevent the kids from traveling. He’s trying to use a threat to control his spouse which is fairly entry-level abusive behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His logic doesn’t make sense to me.

1. He doesn’t want you to go alone to see your parents and leave the kids with him, and he won’t take time off to watch them.

2. He doesn’t want you to take the kids to visit your parents.

3. He has threatened he’ll seek emergency custody if you take the kids. Wouldn’t that mean he would have the problem in #1? He would need to hire childcare?

Is he trying to set a trap for you? Maybe he hopes you will take the kids and he can then get custody? Would his parents help HIM out with childcare?

It sounds to me like he thinks that he can get the police to force OP to come back with the kids and take care of them in his house while he continues to work

Actually, it sounds to me like he doesn’t want a divorce and he is scared, so he made this wild threat.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.[/quote]

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.[/quote]

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

[/quote]

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.[/quote]

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids? [/quote]

A job doesn’t stop someone from moving.

I know what it’s like. My husbands ex did it to him. [/quote]

Your husband’s ex moved with the kids before they divorced?
Did he file for emergency custody of the kids? Or did he move to wherever she was to be near the kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids?

A job doesn’t stop someone from moving.

I know what it’s like. My husbands ex did it to him.

Your husband’s ex moved with the kids before they divorced?
Did he file for emergency custody of the kids? Or did he move to wherever she was to be near the kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids?

A job doesn’t stop someone from moving.

I know what it’s like. My husbands ex did it to him.

Your husband’s ex moved with the kids before they divorced?
Did he file for emergency custody of the kids? Or did he move to wherever she was to be near the kids?

Yes she just moved, he asked for custody many times and the courts would not enforce anything not hold her in contempt. No, he could not follow cross country as he’d be court marshaled and thrown in jail. Why should he follow her to be with her affair partner? It’s truly sad how she messed up two sets of kids. Most courts do nothing. When she abused his kids, his were removed but not theirs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His logic doesn’t make sense to me.

1. He doesn’t want you to go alone to see your parents and leave the kids with him, and he won’t take time off to watch them.

2. He doesn’t want you to take the kids to visit your parents.

3. He has threatened he’ll seek emergency custody if you take the kids. Wouldn’t that mean he would have the problem in #1? He would need to hire childcare?

Is he trying to set a trap for you? Maybe he hopes you will take the kids and he can then get custody? Would his parents help HIM out with childcare?

It sounds to me like he thinks that he can get the police to force OP to come back with the kids and take care of them in his house while he continues to work

Actually, it sounds to me like he doesn’t want a divorce and he is scared, so he made this wild threat.

They both need to divorce. This isn’t healthy for the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids?

A job doesn’t stop someone from moving.

I know what it’s like. My husbands ex did it to him.

Your husband’s ex moved with the kids before they divorced?
Did he file for emergency custody of the kids? Or did he move to wherever she was to be near the kids?

Yes she just moved, he asked for custody many times and the courts would not enforce anything not hold her in contempt. No, he could not follow cross country as he’d be court marshaled and thrown in jail. Why should he follow her to be with her affair partner? It’s truly sad how she messed up two sets of kids. Most courts do nothing. When she abused his kids, his were removed but not theirs.

I guess that he would move to be near his children, not to be near his wife’s affair partner. Or, in OP’s case, her elderly parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids?

A job doesn’t stop someone from moving.

I know what it’s like. My husbands ex did it to him.

Your husband’s ex moved with the kids before they divorced?
Did he file for emergency custody of the kids? Or did he move to wherever she was to be near the kids?

Yes she just moved, he asked for custody many times and the courts would not enforce anything not hold her in contempt. No, he could not follow cross country as he’d be court marshaled and thrown in jail. Why should he follow her to be with her affair partner? It’s truly sad how she messed up two sets of kids. Most courts do nothing. When she abused his kids, his were removed but not theirs.

ok … clearly there’s a lot more to this story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids?

A job doesn’t stop someone from moving.

I know what it’s like. My husbands ex did it to him.

Your husband’s ex moved with the kids before they divorced?
Did he file for emergency custody of the kids? Or did he move to wherever she was to be near the kids?

Yes she just moved, he asked for custody many times and the courts would not enforce anything not hold her in contempt. No, he could not follow cross country as he’d be court marshaled and thrown in jail. Why should he follow her to be with her affair partner? It’s truly sad how she messed up two sets of kids. Most courts do nothing. When she abused his kids, his were removed but not theirs.

I guess that he would move to be near his children, not to be near his wife’s affair partner. Or, in OP’s case, her elderly parents.

You think everyone can just pick up and move? How would he pay child support and alimony without a job? How would he move and get a new job if his current employer, the military wouldn't release him from service?

There is no true accountability. OP can do what she wants but she will seriously screw up her kids but this household sounds pretty toxic as it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids?

A job doesn’t stop someone from moving.

I know what it’s like. My husbands ex did it to him.

Your husband’s ex moved with the kids before they divorced?
Did he file for emergency custody of the kids? Or did he move to wherever she was to be near the kids?

Yes she just moved, he asked for custody many times and the courts would not enforce anything not hold her in contempt. No, he could not follow cross country as he’d be court marshaled and thrown in jail. Why should he follow her to be with her affair partner? It’s truly sad how she messed up two sets of kids. Most courts do nothing. When she abused his kids, his were removed but not theirs.

I guess that he would move to be near his children, not to be near his wife’s affair partner. Or, in OP’s case, her elderly parents.

You think everyone can just pick up and move? How would he pay child support and alimony without a job? How would he move and get a new job if his current employer, the military wouldn't release him from service?

There is no true accountability. OP can do what she wants but she will seriously screw up her kids but this household sounds pretty toxic as it is.

OP didn’t say that her husband was in the military.
And her household seems much less toxic than yours does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids?

A job doesn’t stop someone from moving.

I know what it’s like. My husbands ex did it to him.

Your husband’s ex moved with the kids before they divorced?
Did he file for emergency custody of the kids? Or did he move to wherever she was to be near the kids?

Yes she just moved, he asked for custody many times and the courts would not enforce anything not hold her in contempt. No, he could not follow cross country as he’d be court marshaled and thrown in jail. Why should he follow her to be with her affair partner? It’s truly sad how she messed up two sets of kids. Most courts do nothing. When she abused his kids, his were removed but not theirs.

I guess that he would move to be near his children, not to be near his wife’s affair partner. Or, in OP’s case, her elderly parents.

You think everyone can just pick up and move? How would he pay child support and alimony without a job? How would he move and get a new job if his current employer, the military wouldn't release him from service?

There is no true accountability. OP can do what she wants but she will seriously screw up her kids but this household sounds pretty toxic as it is.

OP didn’t say that her husband was in the military.
And her household seems much less toxic than yours does.

Our household I not toxic. Two different households impact the kids.

Either way it is very toxic and most here want to ignore the damage that can be done to these kids with all the conflict, games and dysfunction.

[Anonymous]

I’m traveling right now and imagining OP’s kids calling the number on the Human Trafficking sign after their dad forcibly takes them from their grandparents house. “If you are traveling against your will…”