Can I go on vacation out of state with my kids if DH and I have no custody agreement?

[Anonymous]

OMG LAWYER.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Thanks again. I have no plans to keep them out of state permanently. I have been taking them every summer for seven weeks since kindergarten. I like the idea of me just going for longer so he is compelled to take care of them and I can take care of my parents. But they will hate it. They don’t have a close relationship and he feeds them sugar and unhealthy meals and no structure with video games and movies. They will enjoy that for a few days but not for much longer. They tell me they are still hungry on the one night a week he gives them dinner.

Make meals for them that he can reheat. They cannot develop a close relationship if they don't spend time together. This is a good time for them to spend time together. Movies and video games is ok in moderation.

DP. I am kind of codependent and a pushover, but even I would struggle doing this.
The guy is threatening to file for divorce and custody, and then have the police come to her 80 year old parents house.

And she’s threatening to take the kids out of state for 2 months while preparing to file for custody. I don’t agree with his threats but he’s not wrong to be concerned.

OP is coming off as a bit self-centered and clueless here - exactly like the type of person who would do something like decide “oh, it’s so nice here with the grandparents, obviously the best thing for the kids is to just stay here. I can get a new teaching job easily enough and mom & dad will let us stay here until I get on my feet.”

OP needs to face the reality of the situation and get the ball rolling on an actual custody agreement. And also accept that the era of spending 7 weeks with the grandparents is likely over.

I was with this line of thinking in my first reply until OP said he also doesn't want her to go without the kids because then he'd have to take care of them!

He has a FT job so obviously they’d need to arrange for childcare. OP isn’t being a reliable narrator.

Husband needs to arrange childcare since he's the one who has the issue. The OP is available for her kids.

That’s a needlessly high-conflict way to handle it. They can work together to figure out childcare. If OP wants truly zero coordination with her DH she needs to get divorced and get a detailed custody plan (which btw will almost certainly not include 7 weeks away).

How is it needlessly high conflict to ask your spouse to arrange for meals and childcare during the time they are responsible for the kids?

When you are married things like childcare are shared responsibilities, not the sole responsibility of one or the other. Even if one parent is on vacation and the other is left with the kids, they are both still responsible for the kids.

Plus, OP would be an idiot to establish so clearly for the courts that she thinks he is up to the challenge of full custody, unless she actually wants to give him the kids.

In a typical marriage, a lot of things are completely taken over by one person. OP has childcare. If it’s split along gender lines, then her husband probably takes care of the finances.

If the OP thinks her husband is going to steal all of their money, and she wants to get an account in her own name, then she can. But it isn’t her husband’s responsibility to walk her through it.

In the same vein, if the husband wants to keep the kids in his own for part of the summer, then he can, but it isn’t the OP’s job to figure it out for him. That’s ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

New poster here. It’s a power move on his part, my ex used to try to pull the same cr*p.
You won’t get in trouble legally, but he can file frivolous stuff and you will have to file responses etc etc
What I would do is I would say ok fine I’ll go for say 3 weeks (right when the school year ends). Then while there and it’s getting close to coming back you say- oh my parents are sick can you come take the kids home? He won’t, I bet you anything. Then you graciously agree to keep them there for longer though it would have been so much easier if he took them home!
Also, wtf is parallel parenting. Move out and I promise your ex will eventually get tired of all his power struggles and other sh*t unless ge is a true psycho.

[Anonymous]

I find these posts amusing. You always get one or two people who are determined to overlay their own scenario on top of OP's story, no matter what it is.

Anyway. OP, I think you hold all the cards here, quite frankly. Your husband has threatened you with divorce based on your intention to take the same trip you've taken for several years over the summer. I'd call his bluff and tell him to go ahead and file. You'll ask for the 7 weeks as normal as a start and if the judge goes with 50/50 then he can figure out child care during his 50%. Or he can sign an agreement acknowledging that you're taking the kids to your parents from X date to Y date and will return to the family home afterward.

Make no mistake, the police aren't going to come and haul kids back if there isn't a custody order pursuant to a separation or divorce on file. They aren't settling childcare disputes between married couples.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Thanks again. I have no plans to keep them out of state permanently. I have been taking them every summer for seven weeks since kindergarten. I like the idea of me just going for longer so he is compelled to take care of them and I can take care of my parents. But they will hate it. They don’t have a close relationship and he feeds them sugar and unhealthy meals and no structure with video games and movies. They will enjoy that for a few days but not for much longer. They tell me they are still hungry on the one night a week he gives them dinner.

Make meals for them that he can reheat. They cannot develop a close relationship if they don't spend time together. This is a good time for them to spend time together. Movies and video games is ok in moderation.

DP. I am kind of codependent and a pushover, but even I would struggle doing this.
The guy is threatening to file for divorce and custody, and then have the police come to her 80 year old parents house.

And she’s threatening to take the kids out of state for 2 months while preparing to file for custody. I don’t agree with his threats but he’s not wrong to be concerned.

OP is coming off as a bit self-centered and clueless here - exactly like the type of person who would do something like decide “oh, it’s so nice here with the grandparents, obviously the best thing for the kids is to just stay here. I can get a new teaching job easily enough and mom & dad will let us stay here until I get on my feet.”

OP needs to face the reality of the situation and get the ball rolling on an actual custody agreement. And also accept that the era of spending 7 weeks with the grandparents is likely over.

I was with this line of thinking in my first reply until OP said he also doesn't want her to go without the kids because then he'd have to take care of them!

He has a FT job so obviously they’d need to arrange for childcare. OP isn’t being a reliable narrator.

Husband needs to arrange childcare since he's the one who has the issue. The OP is available for her kids.

That’s a needlessly high-conflict way to handle it. They can work together to figure out childcare. If OP wants truly zero coordination with her DH she needs to get divorced and get a detailed custody plan (which btw will almost certainly not include 7 weeks away).

How is it needlessly high conflict to ask your spouse to arrange for meals and childcare during the time they are responsible for the kids?

When you are married things like childcare are shared responsibilities, not the sole responsibility of one or the other. Even if one parent is on vacation and the other is left with the kids, they are both still responsible for the kids.

Plus, OP would be an idiot to establish so clearly for the courts that she thinks he is up to the challenge of full custody, unless she actually wants to give him the kids.

In a typical marriage, a lot of things are completely taken over by one person. OP has childcare. If it’s split along gender lines, then her husband probably takes care of the finances.

If the OP thinks her husband is going to steal all of their money, and she wants to get an account in her own name, then she can. But it isn’t her husband’s responsibility to walk her through it.

In the same vein, if the husband wants to keep the kids in his own for part of the summer, then he can, but it isn’t the OP’s job to figure it out for him. That’s ridiculous.

Of course it’s ridiculous and extremely unhealthy for the kids. It’s literally turning the kids and their care into pawns in the parents’ discord. OP hasn’t said why she is persisting with this “parallel parenting in the same house” plan but she needs to grow up ASAP and put some actual plans into place. If she believes she should have no burdens wrt the details of responsibility for the kids when they are under their dad’s care - great, that’s precisely the kind of arrangement that divorce is designed to create.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. It’s a power move on his part, my ex used to try to pull the same cr*p.
You won’t get in trouble legally, but he can file frivolous stuff and you will have to file responses etc etc
What I would do is I would say ok fine I’ll go for say 3 weeks (right when the school year ends). Then while there and it’s getting close to coming back you say- oh my parents are sick can you come take the kids home? He won’t, I bet you anything. Then you graciously agree to keep them there for longer though it would have been so much easier if he took them home!
Also, wtf is parallel parenting. Move out and I promise your ex will eventually get tired of all his power struggles and other sh*t unless ge is a true psycho.

It’s not a power move he is protecting his rights. They both should agree to divorce at this point and stop playing games. Since things are bad, she can easily up and take the kids and not return and once the kids are moved and settled it’s unlikely a judge would order them to move back and even if a judge did if mom chooses not to, nothing would happen to mom.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids?

A job doesn’t stop someone from moving.

I know what it’s like. My husbands ex did it to him.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You cannot take children across state lines without the consent of both parents. I used to work in a job where we sent children on trips and if both parents were not going, they both needed to sign all the paperwork agreeing that the child could go. I don't know if that rule is specific to certain states, but it was definitely the case when I had that job.

We got into this with our neighbors who were divorcing - the dad wouldn't take his kids on the big dad/kid trip our friend group does every year and it happened to fall on the weekend the wife had the kids so she asked other dads if they would take her kids (which we had done in the past for certain dads couldn't attend for whatever reason). The answer was no because they were going out of state (driving, but still crossing state lines) and we weren't going to get into it with her husband, who sounds like OP's husband.

What? Of course you can! Who's going to stop you? I've done this without explicit permission from my DH. My parents live in Chicago and have taken my kids to Indiana Dunes without explicit permission. You just can't take them across state lines to exploit them.

It very much depends on the state. And even if it’s not a state with strict parental kidnaping law, the dad can file for temporary emergency custody. 7 weeks out of state unilaterally isn’t going to be kindly viewed by the judge.

Errrrr...I've lived 5 miles from state lines twice in my life and never once asked DH if I cross them with the kids.

Are you being purposefully obtuse?

Yes, I crossed state lines with my kids last weekend, but my husband was fine with. OP's husband is telling her she cannot take the kids out of state. This is obviously a different situation she is dealing with. He has explicitly told her she cannot take the kids out of state. Do you want her to roll the dice and find out what happens if she does so against his explicit instructions?

Did you get lost on your way to Saudi Arabia?

They’re still married. She can take her children wherever she wants including out of the country. Yes he could file a fraudulent order of emergency custody but a judge seeing that and then coming to understand that a teacher has taken her children to see their grandparents every summer continued to do so this summer is really, really unlikely to see a kidnapped.

[Anonymous]

He can say he doesn’t want the kids to go. He cannot say you cannot go.

I would offer him the choice of you go with the kids as usual or you go without the kids. He will have to find them some camps. Make sure not to contribute any money to those camps because they are solely for his convenience.

[Anonymous]

You are married. You both have custody.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I usually take my kids to see my parents for 7 weeks in the summer. I am a teacher so I can do this. They live across the country. DH and I are parallel parenting in same house but nothing formal filed. He said if I take them on the date I usually take them then he will file an order in court and get the police to come to my parent's house when I get there. I am going to talk to a lawyer, but since this "talk" just happened, looking to the folks on DCUM to tell me if he can actually do this. He also wants to dictate when I must come back. My parents are in their late 80s and they don't come here anymore so I want to spend as much time as possible and so do my kids who are in upper elementary. Legally, can he dictate my dates?

What are the police going to do when they get there? Is your husband going to come with them and get the kids? What’s he going to do with them when they get home and you are still with your parents? Is he expecting that you will just come back and parallel parent?

This sounds like more of a threat than a reality to me. He is scared, and he wants some control.

No, he could absolutely file for emergency custody and then get the order enforced by local police. This is not something to take lightly. Who knows if he would actually do it. But taking the kids out of state unilaterally for months is a really very bad idea. OP needs to wrap her head around the fact that she needs to compromise.

On NO planet will he get an emergency order. On top of that, enforcement across state lines is a joke. It is an empty threat, but you are doing yourself no favors if you go without his consent. I’d suggest coming to an agreement about 4 weeks and then hope he likes having you guys gone and isn’t anxious for your return. Then 4 weeks can turn to five to six, etc etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I usually take my kids to see my parents for 7 weeks in the summer. I am a teacher so I can do this. They live across the country. DH and I are parallel parenting in same house but nothing formal filed. He said if I take them on the date I usually take them then he will file an order in court and get the police to come to my parent's house when I get there. I am going to talk to a lawyer, but since this "talk" just happened, looking to the folks on DCUM to tell me if he can actually do this. He also wants to dictate when I must come back. My parents are in their late 80s and they don't come here anymore so I want to spend as much time as possible and so do my kids who are in upper elementary. Legally, can he dictate my dates?

What are the police going to do when they get there? Is your husband going to come with them and get the kids? What’s he going to do with them when they get home and you are still with your parents? Is he expecting that you will just come back and parallel parent?

This sounds like more of a threat than a reality to me. He is scared, and he wants some control.

No, he could absolutely file for emergency custody and then get the order enforced by local police. This is not something to take lightly. Who knows if he would actually do it. But taking the kids out of state unilaterally for months is a really very bad idea. OP needs to wrap her head around the fact that she needs to compromise.

On NO planet will he get an emergency order. On top of that, enforcement across state lines is a joke. It is an empty threat, but you are doing yourself no favors if you go without his consent. I’d suggest coming to an agreement about 4 weeks and then hope he likes having you guys gone and isn’t anxious for your return. Then 4 weeks can turn to five to six, etc etc.

This is exactly why they are heading for divorce. If he says no, she should respect it or compromise at 2-3 weeks.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You cannot take children across state lines without the consent of both parents. I used to work in a job where we sent children on trips and if both parents were not going, they both needed to sign all the paperwork agreeing that the child could go. I don't know if that rule is specific to certain states, but it was definitely the case when I had that job.

We got into this with our neighbors who were divorcing - the dad wouldn't take his kids on the big dad/kid trip our friend group does every year and it happened to fall on the weekend the wife had the kids so she asked other dads if they would take her kids (which we had done in the past for certain dads couldn't attend for whatever reason). The answer was no because they were going out of state (driving, but still crossing state lines) and we weren't going to get into it with her husband, who sounds like OP's husband.

What? Of course you can! Who's going to stop you? I've done this without explicit permission from my DH. My parents live in Chicago and have taken my kids to Indiana Dunes without explicit permission. You just can't take them across state lines to exploit them.

It very much depends on the state. And even if it’s not a state with strict parental kidnaping law, the dad can file for temporary emergency custody. 7 weeks out of state unilaterally isn’t going to be kindly viewed by the judge.

Errrrr...I've lived 5 miles from state lines twice in my life and never once asked DH if I cross them with the kids.

Are you being purposefully obtuse?

Yes, I crossed state lines with my kids last weekend, but my husband was fine with. OP's husband is telling her she cannot take the kids out of state. This is obviously a different situation she is dealing with. He has explicitly told her she cannot take the kids out of state. Do you want her to roll the dice and find out what happens if she does so against his explicit instructions?

Did you get lost on your way to Saudi Arabia?

They’re still married. She can take her children wherever she wants including out of the country. Yes he could file a fraudulent order of emergency custody but a judge seeing that and then coming to understand that a teacher has taken her children to see their grandparents every summer continued to do so this summer is really, really unlikely to see a kidnapped.

Once again, the parental kidnaping laws vary from state to state. I bet you anything that OP plans to relocate permanently there, she just won’t admit it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot take children across state lines without the consent of both parents. I used to work in a job where we sent children on trips and if both parents were not going, they both needed to sign all the paperwork agreeing that the child could go. I don't know if that rule is specific to certain states, but it was definitely the case when I had that job.

We got into this with our neighbors who were divorcing - the dad wouldn't take his kids on the big dad/kid trip our friend group does every year and it happened to fall on the weekend the wife had the kids so she asked other dads if they would take her kids (which we had done in the past for certain dads couldn't attend for whatever reason). The answer was no because they were going out of state (driving, but still crossing state lines) and we weren't going to get into it with her husband, who sounds like OP's husband.

What? Of course you can! Who's going to stop you? I've done this without explicit permission from my DH. My parents live in Chicago and have taken my kids to Indiana Dunes without explicit permission. You just can't take them across state lines to exploit them.

It very much depends on the state. And even if it’s not a state with strict parental kidnaping law, the dad can file for temporary emergency custody. 7 weeks out of state unilaterally isn’t going to be kindly viewed by the judge.

Errrrr...I've lived 5 miles from state lines twice in my life and never once asked DH if I cross them with the kids.

Are you being purposefully obtuse?

Yes, I crossed state lines with my kids last weekend, but my husband was fine with. OP's husband is telling her she cannot take the kids out of state. This is obviously a different situation she is dealing with. He has explicitly told her she cannot take the kids out of state. Do you want her to roll the dice and find out what happens if she does so against his explicit instructions?

Did you get lost on your way to Saudi Arabia?

They’re still married. She can take her children wherever she wants including out of the country. Yes he could file a fraudulent order of emergency custody but a judge seeing that and then coming to understand that a teacher has taken her children to see their grandparents every summer continued to do so this summer is really, really unlikely to see a kidnapped.

Once again, the parental kidnaping laws vary from state to state. I bet you anything that OP plans to relocate permanently there, she just won’t admit it.

Then why hasn’t she on any of the previous annual trips to see her parents all summer, during which her spouse gets free childcare?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I usually take my kids to see my parents for 7 weeks in the summer. I am a teacher so I can do this. They live across the country. DH and I are parallel parenting in same house but nothing formal filed. He said if I take them on the date I usually take them then he will file an order in court and get the police to come to my parent's house when I get there. I am going to talk to a lawyer, but since this "talk" just happened, looking to the folks on DCUM to tell me if he can actually do this. He also wants to dictate when I must come back. My parents are in their late 80s and they don't come here anymore so I want to spend as much time as possible and so do my kids who are in upper elementary. Legally, can he dictate my dates?

What are the police going to do when they get there? Is your husband going to come with them and get the kids? What’s he going to do with them when they get home and you are still with your parents? Is he expecting that you will just come back and parallel parent?

This sounds like more of a threat than a reality to me. He is scared, and he wants some control.

No, he could absolutely file for emergency custody and then get the order enforced by local police. This is not something to take lightly. Who knows if he would actually do it. But taking the kids out of state unilaterally for months is a really very bad idea. OP needs to wrap her head around the fact that she needs to compromise.

On NO planet will he get an emergency order. On top of that, enforcement across state lines is a joke. It is an empty threat, but you are doing yourself no favors if you go without his consent. I’d suggest coming to an agreement about 4 weeks and then hope he likes having you guys gone and isn’t anxious for your return. Then 4 weeks can turn to five to six, etc etc.

This is exactly why they are heading for divorce. If he says no, she should respect it or compromise at 2-3 weeks.

Because he’s a man? Because he’s making threats?

That’s not how it works. She says yes, and the trip is status quo which courts uphold in divorces. He can offer to find and pay childcare so the kids stay home with him, but she’s not a prisoner.