Nanny wants to use sick leave as vacation days

[Anonymous]

nannydebsays wrote:My employers offer me 15 days PTO. They expect that I, a fairly intelligent person, will know that it would be wise to "save up" some of my PTO to use as sick leave. If I choose not to act intelligently and plan ahead, that's on me.

Mine too! This is exactly my PTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I'm an employee relations specialist. Employees frequently get disciplined for excessive leave, even if it is sick leave they've earned, for taking lots if leave at in opportune times, for calling out every Friday or Monday, for calling out sick when they're not sick, etc. This insistence that you know how office jobs work and everyone who disagrees with you is "not so bright" is really getting irritating. I'm suspecting more trolls because that seems to be where this forum is headed...

Apples and oranges, pp. Did you skip the poster who told you we *see* exactly what some parents are doing when they have a sudden need for a mental health day? To her post, I'll add mine for you. MB drinks soda and eats chocolate all day when she needs a break from her job. Now, see how little you know? Maybe you could have a little chat with the nannies if you really want to know how sick your office workers are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I'm an employee relations specialist. Employees frequently get disciplined for excessive leave, even if it is sick leave they've earned, for taking lots if leave at in opportune times, for calling out every Friday or Monday, for calling out sick when they're not sick, etc. This insistence that you know how office jobs work and everyone who disagrees with you is "not so bright" is really getting irritating. I'm suspecting more trolls because that seems to be where this forum is headed...

What are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I'm an employee relations specialist. Employees frequently get disciplined for excessive leave, even if it is sick leave they've earned, for taking lots if leave at in opportune times, for calling out every Friday or Monday, for calling out sick when they're not sick, etc. This insistence that you know how office jobs work and everyone who disagrees with you is "not so bright" is really getting irritating. I'm suspecting more trolls because that seems to be where this forum is headed...

What are you talking about?

I don't think that employees who "call out every Friday or Monday", can afford to have nannies. Do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I'm an employee relations specialist. Employees frequently get disciplined for excessive leave, even if it is sick leave they've earned, for taking lots if leave at in opportune times, for calling out every Friday or Monday, for calling out sick when they're not sick, etc. This insistence that you know how office jobs work and everyone who disagrees with you is "not so bright" is really getting irritating. I'm suspecting more trolls because that seems to be where this forum is headed...

Apples and oranges, pp. Did you skip the poster who told you we *see* exactly what some parents are doing when they have a sudden need for a mental health day? To her post, I'll add mine for you. MB drinks soda and eats chocolate all day when she needs a break from her job. Now, see how little you know? Maybe you could have a little chat with the nannies if you really want to know how sick your office workers are.

PP, I was responding to the poster who didn't believe that an "adult professional" might be disciplined for leave abuse even though they were using their PTO. Your nastiness is KILLING this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I'm an employee relations specialist. Employees frequently get disciplined for excessive leave, even if it is sick leave they've earned, for taking lots if leave at in opportune times, for calling out every Friday or Monday, for calling out sick when they're not sick, etc. This insistence that you know how office jobs work and everyone who disagrees with you is "not so bright" is really getting irritating. I'm suspecting more trolls because that seems to be where this forum is headed...

Apples and oranges, pp. Did you skip the poster who told you we *see* exactly what some parents are doing when they have a sudden need for a mental health day? To her post, I'll add mine for you. MB drinks soda and eats chocolate all day when she needs a break from her job. Now, see how little you know? Maybe you could have a little chat with the nannies if you really want to know how sick your office workers are.

PP, I was responding to the poster who didn't believe that an "adult professional" might be disciplined for leave abuse even though they were using their PTO. Your nastiness is KILLING this board.

Which poster was that? What was said?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:01 the reason why it is totally reasonable to treat them separately is for exactly the reasons listed above - if it is all just PTO and nanny uses it up as vacation then what happens when she is actually sick. Moreover as any MBs have said - and in line with how our own employers treat this time - we want our nanny to take a certain amount of time off to rest each year. That equates to the vacation days granted. If all Nannies treated sick days as simply extra vacation then MBs would rightfully offer fewer sick days. I simply do not understand why it is a hard concept - most MBs get short trm disability too at their jobs if they are not fed workers. So is the argument that we should all be inventing some reason to take that leave every single year so it is not "wasted"? It is there if needed with the hope that it is not necessarily done on a regular basis

All that is well and good. You said it was not self serving. It is. Its in your interest to have her not use those days, be it for doctors appointments, mental health days, mourning, etc. In my opinion, these are all appropriate uses of sick time, and as someone who hasn't been sick enough to miss work in years, this is what I use my sick time for. And yes I do use it. Not all of it, but if I'm burnt out and wake up one morning and just really need a day, haven't had one in months, and haven't scheduled vacation, I will not hesitate to call in. They're my days to use, and my MB understands that.

If I have a nanny who is using her sick days basically as vacation days (that is, when she needs a break to relax) and is calling in the morning of, then I am scrambling to find back-up care or calling out last-minute myself. It would really be nice if my nanny would recognize that she's getting burnt out or needs a day off that she could schedule it with me at least a few days in advance so that I too can plan. If you're really not sick and you just don't feel like working, that's fine, we've all been there, but you're really screwing your bosses by calling in last minute when you don't really need to. Even if you just said you really need a day off and can you take off tomorrow, that would be better than last-minute.

+1. This is what all adult professionals do. Except for very low-level, uneducated office workers, I have never encountered an adult in a professional workplace who thought of sick days as another form of vacation days to be taken whenever the mood strikes and usually with no notice. Sick days are always subject to the contingency of actually being sick. Vacation days and federal holidays are to prevent and "treat" burnout and mental fatigue.

Nannies are no more entitled to use their sick days absent true illness than they are entitled to use the financial benefits of their health insurance without having sought medical treatment.

You are really naive. "Adult professionals" call in sick when they need/want a day off, and then they keep their mouth shut about what they did or where they went.

Sweeping generalizations rarely apply to all. So it's best to address your individual situation with your own employee/employer.

[Anonymous]

nannydebsays wrote:My employers offer me 15 days PTO. They expect that I, a fairly intelligent person, will know that it would be wise to "save up" some of my PTO to use as sick leave. If I choose not to act intelligently and plan ahead, that's on me.

Do you have additional time off when they go on vacation or just 15 days total?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I have never in my entire career called in sick when I wasn't or taken a mental health day so I will never be able to understand people who do.

But my follow up question to the nannies is this: would it be better if I offered straight PTO or paid out the unused sick days? I am never going to agree with nanny about sick days so what is a fair compromise so we can both be happy.

I agree that either one could work, but if you're still concerned about her using all her PTO and having none for if she does get sick, perhaps the payout is a better option. Or you have to make it expressly clear that any days taken beyond her PTO will be unpaid, no ifs ands or buts.

OP here -- this is what I'm really asking. If I offer to pay out unused sick days, will the natural consequence of that be that she only uses the sick days when she is actually sick? I would rather limit the amount of time off, because I don't have family in the area for free back-up childcare, so I end up paying someone to care for the kids on the days when nanny is off anyway. I figure I may as well pay nanny extra at the end of the year, if that is going to be an incentive for her to use the sick days only as sick days. Right now, I feel used and nanny feels cheated so I want to address that. I also want those 5 days of sick leave to be a maximum, not a minimum, because I do not have that much flexibility with my job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I have never in my entire career called in sick when I wasn't or taken a mental health day so I will never be able to understand people who do.

But my follow up question to the nannies is this: would it be better if I offered straight PTO or paid out the unused sick days? I am never going to agree with nanny about sick days so what is a fair compromise so we can both be happy.

I agree that either one could work, but if you're still concerned about her using all her PTO and having none for if she does get sick, perhaps the payout is a better option. Or you have to make it expressly clear that any days taken beyond her PTO will be unpaid, no ifs ands or buts.

OP here -- this is what I'm really asking. If I offer to pay out unused sick days, will the natural consequence of that be that she only uses the sick days when she is actually sick? I would rather limit the amount of time off, because I don't have family in the area for free back-up childcare, so I end up paying someone to care for the kids on the days when nanny is off anyway. I figure I may as well pay nanny extra at the end of the year, if that is going to be an incentive for her to use the sick days only as sick days. Right now, I feel used and nanny feels cheated so I want to address that. I also want those 5 days of sick leave to be a maximum, not a minimum, because I do not have that much flexibility with my job.

If that is your goal, then the payout is a good solution. Knowing that if I don't use my sick days, I will still be paid the value of them at the end of the year definitely alleviates the need to use them all for me.

[Anonymous]

OP-- I am with you- I just hate the 7am phone call-- and the resulting shuffle to figure out schedules-- call the backup agency to send someone who the kids don't know and have them super stressed out the whole day with someone they aren't used to. I would SO much rather pay out 800 bucks at the end of the year if the sick days aren't used. I think I am going to propose this to my nanny for next year because I am pretty sure she will work those days instead of calling in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I have never in my entire career called in sick when I wasn't or taken a mental health day so I will never be able to understand people who do.

But my follow up question to the nannies is this: would it be better if I offered straight PTO or paid out the unused sick days? I am never going to agree with nanny about sick days so what is a fair compromise so we can both be happy.

I agree that either one could work, but if you're still concerned about her using all her PTO and having none for if she does get sick, perhaps the payout is a better option. Or you have to make it expressly clear that any days taken beyond her PTO will be unpaid, no ifs ands or buts.

OP here -- this is what I'm really asking. If I offer to pay out unused sick days, will the natural consequence of that be that she only uses the sick days when she is actually sick? I would rather limit the amount of time off, because I don't have family in the area for free back-up childcare, so I end up paying someone to care for the kids on the days when nanny is off anyway. I figure I may as well pay nanny extra at the end of the year, if that is going to be an incentive for her to use the sick days only as sick days. Right now, I feel used and nanny feels cheated so I want to address that. I also want those 5 days of sick leave to be a maximum, not a minimum, because I do not have that much flexibility with my job.

If that is your goal, then the payout is a good solution. Knowing that if I don't use my sick days, I will still be paid the value of them at the end of the year definitely alleviates the need to use them all for me.

I agree with 9:33. Seems like what any wise employer would do. When you do a payout, the nanny doesn't have to feel screwed for not using her sick day "perks".

[Anonymous]

For the love of god - you are not getting screwed if you do not end up sick!! If your employer wanted you to be able to use the max days they would offer it is PTO nif it is offered as sick then that is very clearly the intention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the love of god - you are not getting screwed if you do not end up sick!! If your employer wanted you to be able to use the max days they would offer it is PTO nif it is offered as sick then that is very clearly the intention.

Then just don't ever call it a "perk", ok? You can't have it every which way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the love of god - you are not getting screwed if you do not end up sick!! If your employer wanted you to be able to use the max days they would offer it is PTO nif it is offered as sick then that is very clearly the intention.

Then just don't ever call it a "perk", ok? You can't have it every which way.

Why are some of you nannies so thick? Of course sick leave is a benefit or perk. However, utilization of that benefit or perk is subject to a condition--that you are actually unable to work due to illness. It is unethical and irresponsible to use your sick days unless you are sick, and you certainly aren't "getting screwed" for being healthy enough not to need them. If you want the freedom to call out because you need a break here and there apart from your vacations and federal holidays, you need to negotiate unspecified PTO, not a combination of sick leave and vacation leave.