Nanny wants to use sick leave as vacation days

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does it work if you get 15 days PTO with no provision for paid sick days? Illness happens suddenly, vacations are planned. If she uses all her PTO for vacation and is then ill, presumably this time is unpaid. She may therefore decide to haul herself into work, and potentially give whatever she's got to my kids (I know, she may have already given it to them anyway) and/or more importantly provide sub-par care while ill. I would much rather her feel she has some paid sick days to fall back on so that she can take the time to get better and come back to work when she is ready and able to do her job properly.

I posted a similar thought above, but this is expressed much better. This is what sick days are for - so you stay home when you are sick. I agree that if she's got it all saved up for vacation or has actually used all her PTO and she gets sick, then all of a sudden you've got a very sick nanny trying to come in because she doesn't want to take a day unpaid. That is the whole point of sick days.

I agree this is a problem. However, the same problem arises when the nanny thinks of sick leave as discretionary PTO and uses it up on vacation before actually getting sick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to 12:57. For that matter I actually normally lose some of my vacation days at work since I hold onto them in case one of my kids gets sick and I need to take off. Happily when they do not get sick I am then left with extra time but normally cannot take it all at year end.

Well it seems like your paid time off compensation isn't great, but its probably offset by your salary or other benefits. I would hazard a guess that your nanny receives a fraction of what you do in salary, benefits, and time off. Can you blame her for wanting to be sure uses the little she does get, considering most nannies spend their days alone with preverbal children? Even the biggest kid lover in the world needs adult interaction and time to mentally recharge. Nannies work LONG days, at least an hour or 2 longer than the people who employ them, have no coworkers, and many are told when to take half of their vacation which may or may not allow her to vacation with other adults/family. When it comes down to it, most nannies have 5 vacation days of their own scheduling, and their sick time. Do you realistically expect that she use one of those precious vacation days for a needed mental health day, instead of the sick days (also compensation) that she will otherwise lose? I'm just trying to explain the other side of things here. Those days matter far more than you realize.

Mental health days are vacation days. If the nanny needs more than five of them, she needs to negotiate that rather than misuse sick days when she is not actually ill.

[Anonymous]

If nanny has an extra stressful mb to put up with, she needs more time away to recover. That's just how it goes, PP.

[Anonymous]

I can see using maybe A sick day as annual health day - more than that is abusing the intent of employers offering ample sick days in case the employee actually does get sick. I fully expect my nanny to use ALL her vacation days each year and FWIW I also pay out sick days if unused at year end. But I think it is not reasonable to both expect generous (eg a whole week) of sick leave if the nanny ends up treating it as simply interchangeable with a full extra week of vacation. It is a perk but one that plays a very different role from vacation days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can see using maybe A sick day as annual health day - more than that is abusing the intent of employers offering ample sick days in case the employee actually does get sick. I fully expect my nanny to use ALL her vacation days each year and FWIW I also pay out sick days if unused at year end. But I think it is not reasonable to both expect generous (eg a whole week) of sick leave if the nanny ends up treating it as simply interchangeable with a full extra week of vacation. It is a perk but one that plays a very different role from vacation days.

I think that's a fair assessment given that you pay it out if unused. If you neither allow your nanny to roll over or pay out sick days at the end of the year, your expectation that she simply forgo this part of her compensation is self-serving and unrealistic, especially those of you with government jobs and oodles of leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So interesting how everyone has a different feeling about getting/being sick. For instance, I happen to never get sick. So if a potential employer wanted to offer me sick days as a "perk", I would not be interested. Sort of like health insurance if I already have it with my spouse. Sure, your tree might fall on my head, but not likely.

So your offer of a "perk" that I don't use, is not much of a perk at all. What's the point of that?

In your particular case, if you are so certain you never need sick leave, you can ask for more PTO with the knowledge that once you use it up, and if you happen to get sick, you go unpaid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In all my private sector jobs, sick days were never accumulated nor rolled over. Sick days are there for when you get sick, not to use as a planned vacation allowance. For those who say let's just make it all PTO and no sick days, the problem with this is when your nanny uses all her PTO and THEN gets sick. What is she going to do? Ask for more paid time off? Expect sick time coverage? Sickness doesn't occur with advance notice, that's why employers provide sick time allowance for the times when you are - actually - sick.

So is it a "perk", or not??

Yeah I don't get it. "We offer you this compensation, but don't you dare use it! And at the end of the year I won't compensate you for it."

Yeah, clearly you don't get it. A perk isn't necessarily comparable to cash value. Perks commonly require you to meet some conditions. My employer covers gym memberships, but to do that, I actually need to join the gym. I can't get that cash in hand. The same with parking and metro. They will pay for parking and Metrochek, but I actually need to be enrolled with a parking garage or buy a Smartrip card. It's not cash value. I'd get laughed out of HR if I told them, you offer me this perk, why should I forgo it just because I don't use metro or need parking?

Sick days are for covering sickness. You need to get sick to use them. If you intend to use them interchangeably with PTO, ask for more PTO with the knowledge that you have no coverage if you get sick and have used up all your PTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In all my private sector jobs, sick days were never accumulated nor rolled over. Sick days are there for when you get sick, not to use as a planned vacation allowance. For those who say let's just make it all PTO and no sick days, the problem with this is when your nanny uses all her PTO and THEN gets sick. What is she going to do? Ask for more paid time off? Expect sick time coverage? Sickness doesn't occur with advance notice, that's why employers provide sick time allowance for the times when you are - actually - sick.

So is it a "perk", or not??

Yeah I don't get it. "We offer you this compensation, but don't you dare use it! And at the end of the year I won't compensate you for it."

Yeah, clearly you don't get it. A perk isn't necessarily comparable to cash value. Perks commonly require you to meet some conditions. My employer covers gym memberships, but to do that, I actually need to join the gym. I can't get that cash in hand. The same with parking and metro. They will pay for parking and Metrochek, but I actually need to be enrolled with a parking garage or buy a Smartrip card. It's not cash value. I'd get laughed out of HR if I told them, you offer me this perk, why should I forgo it just because I don't use metro or need parking?

Sick days are for covering sickness. You need to get sick to use them. If you intend to use them interchangeably with PTO, ask for more PTO with the knowledge that you have no coverage if you get sick and have used up all your PTO.

Sounds like what you want is a nanny who calls out for every sniffle. If that's what's required to get said compensation, so be it.

[Anonymous]

"If you neither allow your nanny to roll over or pay out sick days at the end of the year, your expectation that she simply forgo this part of her compensation is self-serving and unrealistic, especially those of you with government jobs and oodles of leave. "

you replied to me. I pay out since i'm a realist. That said, i do not find it at all "self-serving" to believe that a nanny should be capable of treating sick days as days to be used IF SICK (just as my non-gov work does with also no payout or rollover of sick days) rather than to pad her PTO tally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"If you neither allow your nanny to roll over or pay out sick days at the end of the year, your expectation that she simply forgo this part of her compensation is self-serving and unrealistic, especially those of you with government jobs and oodles of leave. "

you replied to me. I pay out since i'm a realist. That said, i do not find it at all "self-serving" to believe that a nanny should be capable of treating sick days as days to be used IF SICK (just as my non-gov work does with also no payout or rollover of sick days) rather than to pad her PTO tally.

How is it not self-serving? Whose interest is it in to section off part of the compensation package as both use it/lose it AND to be used only in the best interest of the employer? (ie. stay home when you are contagious or otherwise not able to perform to her standards, but come in otherwise even if uncomfortable or mentally exhausted and checked out). Its certainly not in the interest of the nanny. Its convenient for an MB to designate leave in this manner to protect her own PTO and her pocketbook.

[Anonymous]

I am a nanny, I always require PTO days that are not specified. My boss trusts that I would never call out "sick" last minute if I was not truly sick. That said, I value a day off to relax once in a while! I work 65 hours a week and have used what others would call sick days as a mental health day multiple times before. I would not sign a work agreement that specified I could not. Thats ridiculous! If you are offering me PTO, it is none of your business what I do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny, I always require PTO days that are not specified. My boss trusts that I would never call out "sick" last minute if I was not truly sick. That said, I value a day off to relax once in a while! I work 65 hours a week and have used what others would call sick days as a mental health day multiple times before. I would not sign a work agreement that specified I could not. Thats ridiculous! If you are offering me PTO, it is none of your business what I do with it.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

22:01 the reason why it is totally reasonable to treat them separately is for exactly the reasons listed above - if it is all just PTO and nanny uses it up as vacation then what happens when she is actually sick. Moreover as any MBs have said - and in line with how our own employers treat this time - we want our nanny to take a certain amount of time off to rest each year. That equates to the vacation days granted. If all Nannies treated sick days as simply extra vacation then MBs would rightfully offer fewer sick days. I simply do not understand why it is a hard concept - most MBs get short trm disability too at their jobs if they are not fed workers. So is the argument that we should all be inventing some reason to take that leave every single year so it is not "wasted"? It is there if needed with the hope that it is not necessarily done on a regular basis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:22:01 the reason why it is totally reasonable to treat them separately is for exactly the reasons listed above - if it is all just PTO and nanny uses it up as vacation then what happens when she is actually sick. Moreover as any MBs have said - and in line with how our own employers treat this time - we want our nanny to take a certain amount of time off to rest each year. That equates to the vacation days granted. If all Nannies treated sick days as simply extra vacation then MBs would rightfully offer fewer sick days. I simply do not understand why it is a hard concept - most MBs get short trm disability too at their jobs if they are not fed workers. So is the argument that we should all be inventing some reason to take that leave every single year so it is not "wasted"? It is there if needed with the hope that it is not necessarily done on a regular basis

All that is well and good. You said it was not self serving. It is. Its in your interest to have her not use those days, be it for doctors appointments, mental health days, mourning, etc. In my opinion, these are all appropriate uses of sick time, and as someone who hasn't been sick enough to miss work in years, this is what I use my sick time for. And yes I do use it. Not all of it, but if I'm burnt out and wake up one morning and just really need a day, haven't had one in months, and haven't scheduled vacation, I will not hesitate to call in. They're my days to use, and my MB understands that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:01 the reason why it is totally reasonable to treat them separately is for exactly the reasons listed above - if it is all just PTO and nanny uses it up as vacation then what happens when she is actually sick. Moreover as any MBs have said - and in line with how our own employers treat this time - we want our nanny to take a certain amount of time off to rest each year. That equates to the vacation days granted. If all Nannies treated sick days as simply extra vacation then MBs would rightfully offer fewer sick days. I simply do not understand why it is a hard concept - most MBs get short trm disability too at their jobs if they are not fed workers. So is the argument that we should all be inventing some reason to take that leave every single year so it is not "wasted"? It is there if needed with the hope that it is not necessarily done on a regular basis

All that is well and good. You said it was not self serving. It is. Its in your interest to have her not use those days, be it for doctors appointments, mental health days, mourning, etc. In my opinion, these are all appropriate uses of sick time, and as someone who hasn't been sick enough to miss work in years, this is what I use my sick time for. And yes I do use it. Not all of it, but if I'm burnt out and wake up one morning and just really need a day, haven't had one in months, and haven't scheduled vacation, I will not hesitate to call in. They're my days to use, and my MB understands that.

If I have a nanny who is using her sick days basically as vacation days (that is, when she needs a break to relax) and is calling in the morning of, then I am scrambling to find back-up care or calling out last-minute myself. It would really be nice if my nanny would recognize that she's getting burnt out or needs a day off that she could schedule it with me at least a few days in advance so that I too can plan. If you're really not sick and you just don't feel like working, that's fine, we've all been there, but you're really screwing your bosses by calling in last minute when you don't really need to. Even if you just said you really need a day off and can you take off tomorrow, that would be better than last-minute.