Not paying over time when over the table taxable income ?

[Anonymous]

I got offered a new nanny job , i am working now as part time and this job will be full time plus. I now make 15 an hour under the table for three kids (30 minutes outside of boston) Where going rate is from 14-17 an hour , i will now be working with two kids.

The new job would be 715 am - 615 pm (i live about 15 minutes away so i'm not worried about the longer hours) The offer i got was 680 a week on the books they pay the employer taxes on top of that and i have taxes with held from the 680 through the payroll company they will use. The reason the offer is lower then i expected is the parents are divorced and both planning to take 4 weeks each with the kids. So i will have 8 weeks paid time off as well as hoildays. (one week of my picking and 7 weeks of there picking).

This is my first over the table job as a nanny and i have noticed i won't be making over time after the 40 hours of a 55 hour week. They figured it that my pay will be 14.65 if including the 8 weeks paid time off.

Should i ask for overtime after 40 hours ? I am assuming since they are using a payroll system anything over 40 they will make time and a half but i don't want it to come as a big suprise and they knock my hourly rate down.

I really liked the kids as well as the parents. It is there first time hiring a nanny instead of daycare , Should i bring up the overtime dicussion or ask for a slighty higher weekly pay ? (i was thinking 700 instead of 680 so not a big difference)

[Anonymous]

It sounds like they're offering you $680/week rather than an hourly rate. So if you're working 55 hours, your hourly rate would be about $11/hour for 40 hours and then $16.5/hour for the remaining 15 hours.

Maybe they're doing it as total hours worked over the year compared to total hours paid, in which case the hourly rate would be about $13/hour.

I've heard it's fairly typical to get two weeks off, so you're essentially getting six additional paid weeks off, which the family probably thinks is a big benefit (and it would be to someone who valued the time off). If it's not a big enough benefit to you to go with a lower hourly rate, then you'll need to negotiate. But keep in mind that if the going rate is $14-17, then the parents will probably want to pay on the low end of this to off-set the tons of vacation they offer.

[Anonymous]

Its not that you are not getting overtime for this rate, its that the rate is lower than what you expected. Jobs that offer more hours usually do offer lower rates. Whether or not you can find a higher paying job is really up to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like they're offering you $680/week rather than an hourly rate. So if you're working 55 hours, your hourly rate would be about $11/hour for 40 hours and then $16.5/hour for the remaining 15 hours.

Maybe they're doing it as total hours worked over the year compared to total hours paid, in which case the hourly rate would be about $13/hour.

I've heard it's fairly typical to get two weeks off, so you're essentially getting six additional paid weeks off, which the family probably thinks is a big benefit (and it would be to someone who valued the time off). If it's not a big enough benefit to you to go with a lower hourly rate, then you'll need to negotiate. But keep in mind that if the going rate is $14-17, then the parents will probably want to pay on the low end of this to off-set the tons of vacation they offer.

I agree with all of this.

They're offering you OT, but it's a lower hourly rate than what you'd calculated. This would suit people who wanted the additional time off but not people who needed additional income - it's probably not negotiable with the family (although you should try), just a matter of deciding whether their offer works for you.

[Anonymous]

For the one quadrillionith time: NANNIES ARE HOURLY EMPLOYEES AND CANNOT BE SALARIED AND MUST BE PAID OT FOR OVER 40 hours. Stop letting yourself be cheated. It is immaterial that you get 8 weeks off, you still are paid OT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the one quadrillionith time: NANNIES ARE HOURLY EMPLOYEES AND CANNOT BE SALARIED AND MUST BE PAID OT FOR OVER 40 hours. Stop letting yourself be cheated. It is immaterial that you get 8 weeks off, you still are paid OT.

PP, there is no indication here that the OP wasn't offered OT. She was offered a weekly amount for 55 hours of work. As I calculated in my post above, that weekly amount can be broken down to an hourly rate and an OT rate to total the $680 per week. It is of course immaterial to being paid OT how much time off she gets; however, it is entirely material to the hourly rate.

[Anonymous]

I'm a Boston nanny, where exactly is this position located because that is really low even for the suburbs. If its only 30mins outside Boston then the rates are very similar to city rates. 15 is normal for one child, 17-20 for two even if your in Lexington/Andover or Milton/ Wellesley. I've had jobs for $20 an hour with 4weeks paid vacation and I don't even have college degree yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Boston nanny, where exactly is this position located because that is really low even for the suburbs. If its only 30mins outside Boston then the rates are very similar to city rates. 15 is normal for one child, 17-20 for two even if your in Lexington/Andover or Milton/ Wellesley. I've had jobs for $20 an hour with 4weeks paid vacation and I don't even have college degree yet.

With 8 weeks off paid?
I'd jump at the chance to have that much vacation time during the year. Two weeks isn't enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Boston nanny, where exactly is this position located because that is really low even for the suburbs. If its only 30mins outside Boston then the rates are very similar to city rates. 15 is normal for one child, 17-20 for two even if your in Lexington/Andover or Milton/ Wellesley. I've had jobs for $20 an hour with 4weeks paid vacation and I don't even have college degree yet.

The difference lies in the average effective rate. If the OP is getting the standard 10 vacation days plus 8 weeks paid vacation, her average rate per actual hour worked would be roughly $15 per hour. Pretty standard. As other PPs have noted, this average effective rate can be further broken down into a base rate and an overtime rate. It is very common for parents to make this kind of calculation when preparing an offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Boston nanny, where exactly is this position located because that is really low even for the suburbs. If its only 30mins outside Boston then the rates are very similar to city rates. 15 is normal for one child, 17-20 for two even if your in Lexington/Andover or Milton/ Wellesley. I've had jobs for $20 an hour with 4weeks paid vacation and I don't even have college degree yet.

The difference lies in the average effective rate. If the OP is getting the standard 10 vacation days plus 8 weeks paid vacation, her average rate per actual hour worked would be roughly $15 per hour. Pretty standard. As other PPs have noted, this average effective rate can be further broken down into a base rate and an overtime rate. It is very common for parents to make this kind of calculation when preparing an offer.

I understand that but her pay is still very low for two children even with that much time off in this area. I'm not saying she should be getting $20 plus 8weeks for two kids but the rate should only be dropped to about $15-16 (the cost of one child) with over time. Her pay should be about $100 more a week after taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Boston nanny, where exactly is this position located because that is really low even for the suburbs. If its only 30mins outside Boston then the rates are very similar to city rates. 15 is normal for one child, 17-20 for two even if your in Lexington/Andover or Milton/ Wellesley. I've had jobs for $20 an hour with 4weeks paid vacation and I don't even have college degree yet.

The difference lies in the average effective rate. If the OP is getting the standard 10 vacation days plus 8 weeks paid vacation, her average rate per actual hour worked would be roughly $15 per hour. Pretty standard. As other PPs have noted, this average effective rate can be further broken down into a base rate and an overtime rate. It is very common for parents to make this kind of calculation when preparing an offer.

I understand that but her pay is still very low for two children even with that much time off in this area. I'm not saying she should be getting $20 plus 8weeks for two kids but the rate should only be dropped to about $15-16 (the cost of one child) with over time. Her pay should be about $100 more a week after taxes.

PP, maybe I missed it, but do we know where PP is located? Or what her experience and education level is? What else she brings to the table (or does not)? Or what the "average" rate really is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Boston nanny, where exactly is this position located because that is really low even for the suburbs. If its only 30mins outside Boston then the rates are very similar to city rates. 15 is normal for one child, 17-20 for two even if your in Lexington/Andover or Milton/ Wellesley. I've had jobs for $20 an hour with 4weeks paid vacation and I don't even have college degree yet.

The difference lies in the average effective rate. If the OP is getting the standard 10 vacation days plus 8 weeks paid vacation, her average rate per actual hour worked would be roughly $15 per hour. Pretty standard. As other PPs have noted, this average effective rate can be further broken down into a base rate and an overtime rate. It is very common for parents to make this kind of calculation when preparing an offer.

I understand that but her pay is still very low for two children even with that much time off in this area. I'm not saying she should be getting $20 plus 8weeks for two kids but the rate should only be dropped to about $15-16 (the cost of one child) with over time. Her pay should be about $100 more a week after taxes.

It isn't clear what kind of experience OP has, but she is currently making $15 under the table for 3 kids. That's at the low end of the spectrum. I'm sure there are plenty of jobs in the Boston exurbs that pay $13-$15 for one child. That may be where her experience and credentials place her. Also, you mention Lexington/Andover and Milton/Wellesley as towns in which you are familiar with nanny pay, but these towns are much wealthier (and thus very different nanny markets) than a lot of the towns that are just a bit further out (about 30 minutes outside of Boston).

[Anonymous]

Pp here the town is Sharon (a very wealth town) and I have 6 years experience with great reference and would be in charge of grocery shopping and light cleaning as well as laundry in the fall when the younger is in pre school two morning a week ... Was offered 17 an hour on the table for current job or 15 under the table. (Part time job I am working now till end of school year)

Because this job is over the table I'm willing to negotiate a little (a lot of jobs around here like to pay under table ) and was ok with lower rate but would like to be able to pick 2.5 weeks of 8 weeks and/or an extra 20-30 dollars a week. Was just wondering if MB would be willing to negotiate or not. And should I negotiate a little of just accept the offer ?

[Anonymous]

Its normal for a compensation to be balanced. If there is significantly more PTO then the rate will be lower. As a PP noted, this type of offer appeals to some candidates and not to others.

Some nannies do want 8 weeks off to travel back to the home countries. They are not negotiating an additional 8 weeks off in addition to their normal pay. They are lucky to be able to negotiate taking 2 months as leave without pay. For these candidates, this is an attractive job offer. It may also appeal to a nanny with school age kids (assuming the 2 months occurs in the summer) where she can save the costs of a sitter or camps for her own kids.

For nannies that don't want or don't need 8 weeks off, this isn't an attractive offer. However, there is no point in whining that you want the 8 weeks and a higher rate that goes along with a standard two weeks of vacation.

[Anonymous]

I'm an MB and I think you should negotiate.

You should say that you really enjoyed meeting them and loved the kids, and very much appreciate the offer. But in doing the math you've realized that at this weekly amount for the time your base hourly rate would be only X, even just Y if you simply divide the salary by 55 hours. (You don't have to get in to the legalities if you don't want to - either way the hourly rate is very very low and I think they'd have to understand your desire to talk about that.)

"I'd love to find a way to accept your offer but with that long a workday I wouldn't have time or energy to make up income elsewhere so I'm wondering if there is some room for flexibility. And while I really appreciate all of the vacation time it doesn't help me with needing to pay my bills year round."

Then you should know what your minimum acceptable offer is (you said only $20 or 30 - that's really very very little so if you negotiate well it shouldn't be issue.) Ask for more than your minimum acceptable. Pick something - either base hourly rate (calculating 40 hrs at that plus 15 hrs at the rate and a half) or straight hourly rate using the offer divided by 55 hours, or a weekly salary amount, or whatever, and ask for something higher. $750 a week. or $14/hr x 55, or whatever...

Then see what they do. If they've offered you the job they want you. If all they need to come up with is another $150 bucks a month (or so) it may be very feasible. So see what their counter-offer is.

Also, assuming they offer some slight increase, and it's enough for you to take the job but not everything you requested, ask for a salary review in six months at which time you could be bumped up to the level you requested if they're happy with your work.

That's how you negotiate to get to an end point that you're happy with, and that allows them some room for compromise.

Good luck - I hope you get it, and at a better salary level!