Essential Proceedures

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not agree to give a written reference before the end of employment. We had a nanny who worked with us for a short while, and if asked about her early on, I would have said she was good. If asked about her at the end if her employment, I would have said she started out well but her performance changed significantly and she started making frequent unreasonable excuses for lateness, showed some surprising judgment lapses, and is I would not have rehired her and could not in good faith recommend her to anyone else. This isn't about me being angry if a nanny moves on - but being aware that another parent may make a decision based in what I write. I am not going to give a reference based on partial information, and partial information is all I have if asked to write a review before end of job term.

I understand what you're saying, and I've seen a lot of MBs say similar things, but what do you suggest a nanny do in order to protect herself? It has happened to too many of us that we do a great job and choose to move on for whatever reason, and we lose the reference because our employer isn't happy we left. Even if they agree to serve as a reference, you don't think anger or frustration might color their recollection of things? Suddenly they remember nanny was late all the time (she was really only late a couple of times with a completely legitimate reason), or she was sick all the time (failing to remember that it was actually your kids that got her sick), or that she had an attitude problem (that you've completely invented in your mind because YOU actually have an attitude now), and so on. What are we supposed to do exactly? Cross our fingers and hope? References are everything in this industry and its just too easy for an employer to screw you with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not agree to give a written reference before the end of employment. We had a nanny who worked with us for a short while, and if asked about her early on, I would have said she was good. If asked about her at the end if her employment, I would have said she started out well but her performance changed significantly and she started making frequent unreasonable excuses for lateness, showed some surprising judgment lapses, and is I would not have rehired her and could not in good faith recommend her to anyone else. This isn't about me being angry if a nanny moves on - but being aware that another parent may make a decision based in what I write. I am not going to give a reference based on partial information, and partial information is all I have if asked to write a review before end of job term.

I understand what you're saying, and I've seen a lot of MBs say similar things, but what do you suggest a nanny do in order to protect herself? It has happened to too many of us that we do a great job and choose to move on for whatever reason, and we lose the reference because our employer isn't happy we left. Even if they agree to serve as a reference, you don't think anger or frustration might color their recollection of things? Suddenly they remember nanny was late all the time (she was really only late a couple of times with a completely legitimate reason), or she was sick all the time (failing to remember that it was actually your kids that got her sick), or that she had an attitude problem (that you've completely invented in your mind because YOU actually have an attitude now), and so on. What are we supposed to do exactly? Cross our fingers and hope? References are everything in this industry and its just too easy for an employer to screw you with them.

This is no different than the risk I run at my professional position. My employer may feel burned that I left and selectively remember the worst of my time here; but I have to believe that the consistent quality work I've done, and the relationship I've built - as well as making a choice to work with people who hold integrity as a key value - provide me some protection on that front. There's nothing you can really do about someone who is, at their core, malicious - but that person isn't likely to give you an interim letter of recommendation anyway as they'd be suspicious of your reasons for asking.

In any event, I'd say no to this request from a nanny candidate and I'd explain my reasoning. But I'm not going to attach my name to a document that could ultimately be very misleading. I will commit to giving a decent reference to someone who leaves on good terms, even if I wouldn't have wanted her to leave. But, in the case of someone who was great day to day but agreed to work for a year and left after 6 or 8 months, I'd include in the reference that she left before the agreed-upon term. I'd praise her performance in general but be also be honest about the lack of meeting her commitment. That's fair, that's honest, and that's complete based on the entirety of the experience.

[Anonymous]

PP, you know that it is disingenuous to compare a nanny's reference to one from a professional company with HR guidelines and some (ANY) level of protection for its employees.

For example, I used to work in non profits and had three supervisors/bosses (that's a crazy world). Anyway, one of them was craaaaazy and two were wonderful. Guess which ones I list on my resume/use as references? A nanny has ONE potential reference, a person who has not just a professional but a personal relationship with their employee too, and who is subject to no particular rules or oversight when it comes to giving a reference.

You are entitled to your own feelings and to say what you are and are not comfortable doing for your nanny, but it is ludicrous to compare the two sources of references the way you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Because no employer is going to give a nanny a reference letter.

You can stop the trolling now.


NP here (really!) and while I agree with most of what I think were your points, it is very common in England for nannies to present written references when applying for a new position. It is also, of course, standard for them to provide contact information for follow ups, but written references are expected. Experienced nannies wind up with a folder full of them. I used mine when I relocated and according to my references the presentation of the letters helped my new bosses narrow in on their questioning and pick out key points to address, shortening the call (which they appreciated). I don't think it's crazy to expect them (I include in my contract that a new one is written every 6 months) but of course they're no substitute for actually SPEAKING to a reference.


I'm the poster you are quoting and I only posted once, so I'm not sure what points you are referring to. You also misunderstood my post.

My only point is that this discussion is absurd because most employers will not give a nanny a reference for themselves. Of course, employers will expected a nanny candidate to provide references, but it silly for a nanny candidate to expect a reference from the potential employer.


You're right, I missed that crazy argument that parents provide references to nanny candidates. Mea culpa.

No worries. This thread is all over the place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, you know that it is disingenuous to compare a nanny's reference to one from a professional company with HR guidelines and some (ANY) level of protection for its employees.

For example, I used to work in non profits and had three supervisors/bosses (that's a crazy world). Anyway, one of them was craaaaazy and two were wonderful. Guess which ones I list on my resume/use as references? A nanny has ONE potential reference, a person who has not just a professional but a personal relationship with their employee too, and who is subject to no particular rules or oversight when it comes to giving a reference.

You are entitled to your own feelings and to say what you are and are not comfortable doing for your nanny, but it is ludicrous to compare the two sources of references the way you have.

Very well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not agree to give a written reference before the end of employment. We had a nanny who worked with us for a short while, and if asked about her early on, I would have said she was good. If asked about her at the end if her employment, I would have said she started out well but her performance changed significantly and she started making frequent unreasonable excuses for lateness, showed some surprising judgment lapses, and is I would not have rehired her and could not in good faith recommend her to anyone else. This isn't about me being angry if a nanny moves on - but being aware that another parent may make a decision based in what I write. I am not going to give a reference based on partial information, and partial information is all I have if asked to write a review before end of job term.

I understand what you're saying, and I've seen a lot of MBs say similar things, but what do you suggest a nanny do in order to protect herself? It has happened to too many of us that we do a great job and choose to move on for whatever reason, and we lose the reference because our employer isn't happy we left. Even if they agree to serve as a reference, you don't think anger or frustration might color their recollection of things? Suddenly they remember nanny was late all the time (she was really only late a couple of times with a completely legitimate reason), or she was sick all the time (failing to remember that it was actually your kids that got her sick), or that she had an attitude problem (that you've completely invented in your mind because YOU actually have an attitude now), and so on. What are we supposed to do exactly? Cross our fingers and hope? References are everything in this industry and its just too easy for an employer to screw you with them.

Well, what should nannies do to protect themselves??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not agree to give a written reference before the end of employment. We had a nanny who worked with us for a short while, and if asked about her early on, I would have said she was good. If asked about her at the end if her employment, I would have said she started out well but her performance changed significantly and she started making frequent unreasonable excuses for lateness, showed some surprising judgment lapses, and is I would not have rehired her and could not in good faith recommend her to anyone else. This isn't about me being angry if a nanny moves on - but being aware that another parent may make a decision based in what I write. I am not going to give a reference based on partial information, and partial information is all I have if asked to write a review before end of job term.

I understand what you're saying, and I've seen a lot of MBs say similar things, but what do you suggest a nanny do in order to protect herself? It has happened to too many of us that we do a great job and choose to move on for whatever reason, and we lose the reference because our employer isn't happy we left. Even if they agree to serve as a reference, you don't think anger or frustration might color their recollection of things? Suddenly they remember nanny was late all the time (she was really only late a couple of times with a completely legitimate reason), or she was sick all the time (failing to remember that it was actually your kids that got her sick), or that she had an attitude problem (that you've completely invented in your mind because YOU actually have an attitude now), and so on. What are we supposed to do exactly? Cross our fingers and hope? References are everything in this industry and its just too easy for an employer to screw you with them.

Well, what should nannies do to protect themselves??

Nannies don't need to protect themselves, they need to grow up.

If you can't do a good enough job to command a good reference when you part ways how is that anyones fault but yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not agree to give a written reference before the end of employment. We had a nanny who worked with us for a short while, and if asked about her early on, I would have said she was good. If asked about her at the end if her employment, I would have said she started out well but her performance changed significantly and she started making frequent unreasonable excuses for lateness, showed some surprising judgment lapses, and is I would not have rehired her and could not in good faith recommend her to anyone else. This isn't about me being angry if a nanny moves on - but being aware that another parent may make a decision based in what I write. I am not going to give a reference based on partial information, and partial information is all I have if asked to write a review before end of job term.

I understand what you're saying, and I've seen a lot of MBs say similar things, but what do you suggest a nanny do in order to protect herself? It has happened to too many of us that we do a great job and choose to move on for whatever reason, and we lose the reference because our employer isn't happy we left. Even if they agree to serve as a reference, you don't think anger or frustration might color their recollection of things? Suddenly they remember nanny was late all the time (she was really only late a couple of times with a completely legitimate reason), or she was sick all the time (failing to remember that it was actually your kids that got her sick), or that she had an attitude problem (that you've completely invented in your mind because YOU actually have an attitude now), and so on. What are we supposed to do exactly? Cross our fingers and hope? References are everything in this industry and its just too easy for an employer to screw you with them.

Well, what should nannies do to protect themselves??

Nannies don't need to protect themselves, they need to grow up.

If you can't do a good enough job to command a good reference when you part ways how is that anyones fault but yours.

It's ms crazy again. Please go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not agree to give a written reference before the end of employment. We had a nanny who worked with us for a short while, and if asked about her early on, I would have said she was good. If asked about her at the end if her employment, I would have said she started out well but her performance changed significantly and she started making frequent unreasonable excuses for lateness, showed some surprising judgment lapses, and is I would not have rehired her and could not in good faith recommend her to anyone else. This isn't about me being angry if a nanny moves on - but being aware that another parent may make a decision based in what I write. I am not going to give a reference based on partial information, and partial information is all I have if asked to write a review before end of job term.

I understand what you're saying, and I've seen a lot of MBs say similar things, but what do you suggest a nanny do in order to protect herself? It has happened to too many of us that we do a great job and choose to move on for whatever reason, and we lose the reference because our employer isn't happy we left. Even if they agree to serve as a reference, you don't think anger or frustration might color their recollection of things? Suddenly they remember nanny was late all the time (she was really only late a couple of times with a completely legitimate reason), or she was sick all the time (failing to remember that it was actually your kids that got her sick), or that she had an attitude problem (that you've completely invented in your mind because YOU actually have an attitude now), and so on. What are we supposed to do exactly? Cross our fingers and hope? References are everything in this industry and its just too easy for an employer to screw you with them.

Well, what should nannies do to protect themselves??

Nannies don't need to protect themselves, they need to grow up.

If you can't do a good enough job to command a good reference when you part ways how is that anyones fault but yours.

It's ms crazy again. Please go away.

No one wants your commentary.

[Anonymous]

Can we get this to the bimbo parents in CA who hired a street woman to move in and work for free?

[Anonymous]

When we hired DS' nanny, we told her we'd give her a written reference every 6 months for her to use for babysitting or just for her personal record. The references are clearly dated so I'm sure a potential employer would wonder why she was turning in a reference letter that was very outdated. In exchange, we asked she do the same for us She's now just leaving us after 6 years because the youngest is off to school and unfortunately she needs 40 plus hours a week and we can only offer less than half that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we hired DS' nanny, we told her we'd give her a written reference every 6 months for her to use for babysitting or just for her personal record. The references are clearly dated so I'm sure a potential employer would wonder why she was turning in a reference letter that was very outdated. In exchange, we asked she do the same for us She's now just leaving us after 6 years because the youngest is off to school and unfortunately she needs 40 plus hours a week and we can only offer less than half that.

I vote you for:
"MB of the Month" award.

Thank you for your fairness and consideration. It's no accident that your children had the same nanny for six years. Perfect example of giving your children the gift of stability at home.

You have built a firm foundation for their lifelong success.
Kudos to you.

[Anonymous]

Bumping up for the nanny who is still waiting for her overdue paycheck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, you know that it is disingenuous to compare a nanny's reference to one from a professional company with HR guidelines and some (ANY) level of protection for its employees.

For example, I used to work in non profits and had three supervisors/bosses (that's a crazy world). Anyway, one of them was craaaaazy and two were wonderful. Guess which ones I list on my resume/use as references? A nanny has ONE potential reference, a person who has not just a professional but a personal relationship with their employee too, and who is subject to no particular rules or oversight when it comes to giving a reference.

You are entitled to your own feelings and to say what you are and are not comfortable doing for your nanny, but it is ludicrous to compare the two sources of references the way you have.

You seem to have an unrealistic sense of the "protections" that most professional employees enjoy. Most of us have one boss. The impression we make on that person can make or break our ability to land future jobs. It is not uncommon for stessed-out bosses and employees to sour on each other for any number of reasons, legitimate and otherwise. Most companies do not bar employees from providing references for other employees, and absent an outright ban on providing references, people are as open and forthcoming as they want to be,with no mythical corporate big brother ensuring that they are fair to the departed employee. Everyone, in every job, has to be mindful of how his or her resignation might affect the boss, and thus, the future reference. Leaving in a responsible manner is an essential procedure when it comes to being a good employee and getting references to that effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nannies must insist on regular reference letters at least every six months, if not every three months. You never know how your trusted family will suddenly turn evil and vindictive when you give notice. If they seem hesitant, there's your red flag. RUN!

Nannies must protect themselves.