Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

ISIS beheads their victims because they are following the Quran and Mohammed. They say it in the videos.

While Shariah law is left to interpretation, is not the Quran gods law, the unaltered and direct words of God, as written by Muhammed, a human being? at least it is supposed to be that until it is not convenient.

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

It is not hard to figure out what is going on, even though many on this board are stuck in a politically correct dc view.

The only solution is to follow the money, stop the Saudi funding of terrorist schools that preach Wahabism and hate. Expand our energy resources and tax the oil from SA to sky high levels. And confirm the fundamental separation of church and state and equal rights for women. Let the ME rot in never ending moslem on moslem violence. We need to stay out of there. Obama had it right but caved in. Bombing from the sky is lunacy. Stop all immigration from ME. Stop all travel from SA at american airports. We need to be smart and fight this cancer with economic warfare.

"The belief that the Quran is the unquestionable word of God is fundamental to the Islamic faith, and held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, fundamentalist or progressive. Many of you believe that letting it go is as good as calling yourself non-Muslim. I get that. But does it have to be that way?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

ISIS beheads their victims because they are following the Quran and Mohammed. They say it in the videos.

While Shariah law is left to interpretation, is not the Quran gods law, the unaltered and direct words of God, as written by Muhammed, a human being? at least it is supposed to be that until it is not convenient.

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

It is not hard to figure out what is going on, even though many on this board are stuck in a politically correct dc view.

The only solution is to follow the money, stop the Saudi funding of terrorist schools that preach Wahabism and hate. Expand our energy resources and tax the oil from SA to sky high levels. And confirm the fundamental separation of church and state and equal rights for women. Let the ME rot in never ending moslem on moslem violence. We need to stay out of there. Obama had it right but caved in. Bombing from the sky is lunacy. Stop all immigration from ME. Stop all travel from SA at american airports. We need to be smart and fight this cancer with economic warfare.

"The belief that the Quran is the unquestionable word of God is fundamental to the Islamic faith, and held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, fundamentalist or progressive. Many of you believe that letting it go is as good as calling yourself non-Muslim. I get that. But does it have to be that way?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html

Anonymous wrote:Is it fast -- like the swinging of a sword and then the person is dead right away -- little pain?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

ISIS beheads their victims because they are following the Quran and Mohammed. They say it in the videos.

While Shariah law is left to interpretation, is not the Quran gods law, the unaltered and direct words of God, as written by Muhammed, a human being? at least it is supposed to be that until it is not convenient.

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

It is not hard to figure out what is going on, even though many on this board are stuck in a politically correct dc view.

The only solution is to follow the money, stop the Saudi funding of terrorist schools that preach Wahabism and hate. Expand our energy resources and tax the oil from SA to sky high levels. And confirm the fundamental separation of church and state and equal rights for women. Let the ME rot in never ending moslem on moslem violence. We need to stay out of there. Obama had it right but caved in. Bombing from the sky is lunacy. Stop all immigration from ME. Stop all travel from SA at american airports. We need to be smart and fight this cancer with economic warfare.

"The belief that the Quran is the unquestionable word of God is fundamental to the Islamic faith, and held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, fundamentalist or progressive. Many of you believe that letting it go is as good as calling yourself non-Muslim. I get that. But does it have to be that way?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html

With regard to the article, the problem as I see it is less the claims of infallibility of the Quran than the insistence that what it says is good for all times and all places--that is that the Quran is eternal and co-existent with God. This is what prevent s Muslims from saying--okay those verses seems antiquated relative to today's mores but they came in response to a very specific historical situation and can't really be applied more broadly than that.

The createdness of the Quran in seventh century Arabia (as opposed to from the beginning of time) was a mainstream theological view for a few centuries but eventually it lost out to theologians arguing for the co-eternity of the Quran with God. This is a desperately needed reform in Islam as it will allow everyone to distance themselves from the most problematic aspects of the Quran, just as Christians and Jews are able to distance themselves from the most problematic aspects of the Bible.

As for infallibility, Islam does need to reform itself on that as well. It would be fine and well to imagine there is somewhere in virtual space an infallible Quran, but real scholars (not the bottom of the class men who, much to their families' disappointment were not bright enough to study medicine, engineering, or science and so entered the school of religion at their local university--the only school that would accept them) need to come forward and point out how they Quran was assembled in Arabic and all the room for error and changes in wording inherent in that process.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

ISIS beheads their victims because they are following the Quran and Mohammed. They say it in the videos.

While Shariah law is left to interpretation, is not the Quran gods law, the unaltered and direct words of God, as written by Muhammed, a human being? at least it is supposed to be that until it is not convenient.

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

It is not hard to figure out what is going on, even though many on this board are stuck in a politically correct dc view.

The only solution is to follow the money, stop the Saudi funding of terrorist schools that preach Wahabism and hate. Expand our energy resources and tax the oil from SA to sky high levels. And confirm the fundamental separation of church and state and equal rights for women. Let the ME rot in never ending moslem on moslem violence. We need to stay out of there. Obama had it right but caved in. Bombing from the sky is lunacy. Stop all immigration from ME. Stop all travel from SA at american airports. We need to be smart and fight this cancer with economic warfare.

"The belief that the Quran is the unquestionable word of God is fundamental to the Islamic faith, and held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, fundamentalist or progressive. Many of you believe that letting it go is as good as calling yourself non-Muslim. I get that. But does it have to be that way?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html

Correction: Muslims do not believe that the Quran was written by Mohamed saw. We believe that it is the Word of God revealed to the Prophet saw through the angel Gabriel. Fun fact, Prophet Mohamed saw was actually illiterate, he couldn't read nor write, so yeh he didn't write the Quran, moving on.....Those verses that you cited have been debated over and over again on this forum, explanations have been provided, context has been provided, no need to rehash them over and over.

And the article that you quoted is from a self-proclaimed Atheist Muslim who is advising Muslims to disassociate "Islamic identity from Muslim identity by coming together on a sense of community, not ideology". The inference from such a statement is that the Islamic Identity is attributable to those few verses of the Noble Quran that seems to call for violence against all nonMuslims. Out of more than 6,000 verses in the Quran, he cited the verses the so called radical Muslims act upon and he used a simplified rhetoric to give the notion that these verses sum up the entire Islamic identity. What he and so many fail to understand, is that for the Muslims who embrace and understand this religion, Islam has never been wrong, we do not need to drift away from this ideology, from our Islamic identities to be decent citizens. The problem is, people who do not have a sound understanding of the religion itself, its scripture, or half/selective understanding and interpretations. That is the real danger!

Now, as for you, saying "ISIS beheads their victims because they are following the Quran and Mohammed", ISIS have successfully beaten you, their attempt at spreading fear has worked. You now think that they're greater in numbers than they are, and are a greater threat than they actually are. They have successfully "beheaded" you. Congratulations ISIS!

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

ISIS beheads their victims because they are following the Quran and Mohammed. They say it in the videos.

While Shariah law is left to interpretation, is not the Quran gods law, the unaltered and direct words of God, as written by Muhammed, a human being? at least it is supposed to be that until it is not convenient.

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

It is not hard to figure out what is going on, even though many on this board are stuck in a politically correct dc view.

The only solution is to follow the money, stop the Saudi funding of terrorist schools that preach Wahabism and hate. Expand our energy resources and tax the oil from SA to sky high levels. And confirm the fundamental separation of church and state and equal rights for women. Let the ME rot in never ending moslem on moslem violence. We need to stay out of there. Obama had it right but caved in. Bombing from the sky is lunacy. Stop all immigration from ME. Stop all travel from SA at american airports. We need to be smart and fight this cancer with economic warfare.

"The belief that the Quran is the unquestionable word of God is fundamental to the Islamic faith, and held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, fundamentalist or progressive. Many of you believe that letting it go is as good as calling yourself non-Muslim. I get that. But does it have to be that way?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html

Correction: Muslims do not believe that the Quran was written by Mohamed saw. We believe that it is the Word of God revealed to the Prophet saw through the angel Gabriel. Fun fact, Prophet Mohamed saw was actually illiterate, he couldn't read nor write, so yeh he didn't write the Quran, moving on.....Those verses that you cited have been debated over and over again on this forum, explanations have been provided, context has been provided, no need to rehash them over and over.

And the article that you quoted is from a self-proclaimed Atheist Muslim who is advising Muslims to disassociate "Islamic identity from Muslim identity by coming together on a sense of community, not ideology". The inference from such a statement is that the Islamic Identity is attributable to those few verses of the Noble Quran that seems to call for violence against all nonMuslims. Out of more than 6,000 verses in the Quran, he cited the verses the so called radical Muslims act upon and he used a simplified rhetoric to give the notion that these verses sum up the entire Islamic identity. What he and so many fail to understand, is that for the Muslims who embrace and understand this religion, Islam has never been wrong, we do not need to drift away from this ideology, from our Islamic identities to be decent citizens. The problem is, people who do not have a sound understanding of the religion itself, its scripture, or half/selective understanding and interpretations. That is the real danger!

Now, as for you, saying "ISIS beheads their victims because they are following the Quran and Mohammed", ISIS have successfully beaten you, their attempt at spreading fear has worked. You now think that they're greater in numbers than they are, and are a greater threat than they actually are. They have successfully "beheaded" you. Congratulations ISIS!

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

ISIS beheads their victims because they are following the Quran and Mohammed. They say it in the videos.

While Shariah law is left to interpretation, is not the Quran gods law, the unaltered and direct words of God, as written by Muhammed, a human being? at least it is supposed to be that until it is not convenient.

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

It is not hard to figure out what is going on, even though many on this board are stuck in a politically correct dc view.

The only solution is to follow the money, stop the Saudi funding of terrorist schools that preach Wahabism and hate. Expand our energy resources and tax the oil from SA to sky high levels. And confirm the fundamental separation of church and state and equal rights for women. Let the ME rot in never ending moslem on moslem violence. We need to stay out of there. Obama had it right but caved in. Bombing from the sky is lunacy. Stop all immigration from ME. Stop all travel from SA at american airports. We need to be smart and fight this cancer with economic warfare.

"The belief that the Quran is the unquestionable word of God is fundamental to the Islamic faith, and held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, fundamentalist or progressive. Many of you believe that letting it go is as good as calling yourself non-Muslim. I get that. But does it have to be that way?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html

With regard to the article, the problem as I see it is less the claims of infallibility of the Quran than the insistence that what it says is good for all times and all places--that is that the Quran is eternal and co-existent with God. This is what prevent s Muslims from saying--okay those verses seems antiquated relative to today's mores but they came in response to a very specific historical situation and can't really be applied more broadly than that.

The createdness of the Quran in seventh century Arabia (as opposed to from the beginning of time) was a mainstream theological view for a few centuries but eventually it lost out to theologians arguing for the co-eternity of the Quran with God. This is a desperately needed reform in Islam as it will allow everyone to distance themselves from the most problematic aspects of the Quran, just as Christians and Jews are able to distance themselves from the most problematic aspects of the Bible.

As for infallibility, Islam does need to reform itself on that as well. It would be fine and well to imagine there is somewhere in virtual space an infallible Quran, but real scholars (not the bottom of the class men who, much to their families' disappointment were not bright enough to study medicine, engineering, or science and so entered the school of religion at their local university--the only school that would accept them) need to come forward and point out how they Quran was assembled in Arabic and all the room for error and changes in wording inherent in that process.

This is just not true. Muslims do understand the context of the verses, when and why they were revealed, I mean really, you'd hope that the majority of Muslims do know this. Do you really think we are just a bunch of brainless sheep? Just because you refuse to understand that everything in the Quran has a context that you need to know to fully understand its verses, doesn't change this very basic fact of the Quran.

Yes, the Quran is timeless, infallible, that is our belief, you obviously do not believe that, it is your prerogative . It is your prerogative to interpret it but with due responsibility given the fact that we are dealing with a text that is 1400+ years old, written in a language that has changed in dialects over the years. Islam doesn't need a reform, Muslims do. Funny thing is, the Quran itself predicted this. It warns that those with a perverted heart will ignore the decisive foundational verses of the Quran, and manipulate the interpretive verses to promote discord and incorrect interpretations.

Anonymous wrote:
With regard to infallibility, Muslims need to acknowledge the way the Quran was put together--on friable materials and in a Persian hand--means that the Quran as it is put together today most certainly is not exactly what Mohammed recited to his followers. And then there is the problem of discerning the meaning of words that are 1400 years old. Biblical scholars are in the constant process of re-evaluating what certain things in the Bible meant in the language of the time and this feeds into renewed understanding of its passages. Islam today is very closed to such a process and needs to open up, rather than saying this was all decided by theologians in the first 300 hundred years of Islam and not subject to further interpretation.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

ISIS beheads their victims because they are following the Quran and Mohammed. They say it in the videos.

While Shariah law is left to interpretation, is not the Quran gods law, the unaltered and direct words of God, as written by Muhammed, a human being? at least it is supposed to be that until it is not convenient.

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

It is not hard to figure out what is going on, even though many on this board are stuck in a politically correct dc view.

The only solution is to follow the money, stop the Saudi funding of terrorist schools that preach Wahabism and hate. Expand our energy resources and tax the oil from SA to sky high levels. And confirm the fundamental separation of church and state and equal rights for women. Let the ME rot in never ending moslem on moslem violence. We need to stay out of there. Obama had it right but caved in. Bombing from the sky is lunacy. Stop all immigration from ME. Stop all travel from SA at american airports. We need to be smart and fight this cancer with economic warfare.

"The belief that the Quran is the unquestionable word of God is fundamental to the Islamic faith, and held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, fundamentalist or progressive. Many of you believe that letting it go is as good as calling yourself non-Muslim. I get that. But does it have to be that way?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html

With regard to the article, the problem as I see it is less the claims of infallibility of the Quran than the insistence that what it says is good for all times and all places--that is that the Quran is eternal and co-existent with God. This is what prevent s Muslims from saying--okay those verses seems antiquated relative to today's mores but they came in response to a very specific historical situation and can't really be applied more broadly than that.

The createdness of the Quran in seventh century Arabia (as opposed to from the beginning of time) was a mainstream theological view for a few centuries but eventually it lost out to theologians arguing for the co-eternity of the Quran with God. This is a desperately needed reform in Islam as it will allow everyone to distance themselves from the most problematic aspects of the Quran, just as Christians and Jews are able to distance themselves from the most problematic aspects of the Bible.

As for infallibility, Islam does need to reform itself on that as well. It would be fine and well to imagine there is somewhere in virtual space an infallible Quran, but real scholars (not the bottom of the class men who, much to their families' disappointment were not bright enough to study medicine, engineering, or science and so entered the school of religion at their local university--the only school that would accept them) need to come forward and point out how they Quran was assembled in Arabic and all the room for error and changes in wording inherent in that process.

This is just not true. Muslims do understand the context of the verses, when and why they were revealed, I mean really, you'd hope that the majority of Muslims do know this. Do you really think we are just a bunch of brainless sheep? Just because you refuse to understand that everything in the Quran has a context that you need to know to fully understand its verses, doesn't change this very basic fact of the Quran.

Yes, the Quran is timeless, infallible, that is our belief, you obviously do not believe that, it is your prerogative . It is your prerogative to interpret it but with due responsibility given the fact that we are dealing with a text that is 1400+ years old, written in a language that has changed in dialects over the years. Islam doesn't need a reform, Muslims do. Funny thing is, the Quran itself predicted this. It warns that those with a perverted heart will ignore the decisive foundational verses of the Quran, and manipulate the interpretive verses to promote discord and incorrect interpretations.

Here is the problem: If the Quran is eternal a phrase like "Kill unbelievers wherever you find them" becomes a dictate that is valid in all ages so someone like Baghdadi can exhort his followers to do so today in the name of the Quran. If the Quran is not eternal, that dictate is strictly limited to the early days of the Islamic expansion and what Baghdadi is doing is a heretical perversion of Islam. If it is eternal, you then have to defend the passage and tie yourself up into knots explaining why Baghdadi does not represent true Islam.

Of course, it is also true that ISIS is following its own particular view of what constitutes an unbeliever. There is plenty in the Quran to indicate that people of the book (Jews, Christians, Zorastrians--of which Yazidis are an offshoot--and certainly other Muslims) are not unbelievers.

With regard to infallibility, Muslims need to acknowledge the way the Quran was put together--on friable materials and in a Persian hand--means that the Quran as it is put together today most certainly is not exactly what Mohammed recited to his followers. And then there is the problem of discerning the meaning of words that are 1400 years old. Biblical scholars are in the constant process of re-evaluating what certain things in the Bible meant in the language of the time and this feeds into renewed understanding of its passages. Islam today is very closed to such a process and needs to open up, rather than saying this was all decided by theologians in the first 300 hundred years of Islam and not subject to further interpretation.

Muslima wrote: I recently stumbled on an excerpt of aTED talk by Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran". I think it sums up very well most misunderstandings that people have about the Quran. I haven't watched the full talk yet which is about 90minutes but will definitely do so. I for one, appreciated the sincerity, and humor in her approach. Here's the excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g#t=560
Now, as far as Shariah law is concerned, it is fluid and decentralized.The Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf commented that ‘reducing Shariah down to the punishments is like reducing the US judicial system down to the electric chair’. Any scholar with enough years of study can issue a fatwa (opinion) and it is not binding on anyone other than the one who chooses to follow it. Shariah considers context, time and place in its rulings. It is not uniform, what is considered an obligation/binding on one person may be prohibited for another. Rulings are made on a case-by-case basis. The principles behind Shariah remain the same but the applications are widely varied depending on a lot of different things including time, place, ect. The only people who attempted to formalize and codify shariah were the British with their colonies when they created the ‘Anglo-Muhammadan Law’ in an attempt to better control the law . Because of the very nature of Shariah law, a simplistic comparison to other legal systems will for the most part always be misleading. In fact, most Muslims have a very basic understanding of Shariah law, and that is another problem as well.....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it fast -- like the swinging of a sword and then the person is dead right away -- little pain?

Wow, you are sick.