Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It pisses me off no end to go somewhere on a hot summer day and see little girls in long sleeves and jeans. That's just miserable and inappropriate for the weather. It's abusive. If you have to put your kids in wrist-to-ankle clothing, you could at least put them in a thin linen or khaki or cotton outfit. It's especially awful at a theme park like Six Flags, when the family is going to be there all day.

I don't care much about what adult women do, but when I see a grown woman in the US in a full black outfit, rather than just a head scarf, I have to think that there is a bit of a "fuck you" to American culture. Her family is trying to make sure that we understand that they don't approve of our culture. It's a bit rude.

Does this apply to everyone who chooses to wear all black and cover their head? I saw a young woman (I think) out yesterday in the heat.. head to toe black. Black jeans, black long sleeved shirt, black boots and a black scarf wrapped around her head. Not a hijab or anything like that -- just head to toe black. Was she also saying fuck you to American culture? Is it more appropriate to wear butt-bearing shorts and a bikini top?

So, you don't see a different between a woman wearing a full abaya and a girl in black jeans?

No difference if each is wearing what she wants to wear.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be ause they say they deserve those thing does not mean that they are receiving them.

Any woman hidden away and imprisoned in a Saudi burka requiring family could say in a survey that women deserve normal basic freedoms. It doesn't mean anything based on what she is required to do because of Islam and how it is practiced in that society.

The survey is really irrelevant when you look at the actual society.

Well following your thought process, the country is also irrelevant since they don't follow Islamic teachings. On the Islamic Index which shows how a country's laws, economy and social values are in line with Islamic law Saudi Arabia came at the 91th place in the world, so not a beacon of Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic" state, yes the majority is Muslim but they are not even close to being am Islamic state.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It pisses me off no end to go somewhere on a hot summer day and see little girls in long sleeves and jeans. That's just miserable and inappropriate for the weather. It's abusive. If you have to put your kids in wrist-to-ankle clothing, you could at least put them in a thin linen or khaki or cotton outfit. It's especially awful at a theme park like Six Flags, when the family is going to be there all day.

I don't care much about what adult women do, but when I see a grown woman in the US in a full black outfit, rather than just a head scarf, I have to think that there is a bit of a "fuck you" to American culture. Her family is trying to make sure that we understand that they don't approve of our culture. It's a bit rude.

You must be a very angry person. Do send us a photo of yourself and your children so we can all try to look like you and be like you so there's no chance of the rest of us being anti-American. First children are not required to wear the hijab, second the way parents choose to dress their children has nothing to do with you. The fact that you say there is a big fuck you to american culture when a grown woman chooses to dress the way she wants shows your narrowmindness. On a side note you are a perfect example of how liberalism and secularism are just the same as the ideologies they oppose. "Liberalism" - you can be anything you want, as long as you are liberal. "Secularism" - you can believe anything you want, as long as those beliefs are secular.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be ause they say they deserve those thing does not mean that they are receiving them.

Any woman hidden away and imprisoned in a Saudi burka requiring family could say in a survey that women deserve normal basic freedoms. It doesn't mean anything based on what she is required to do because of Islam and how it is practiced in that society.

The survey is really irrelevant when you look at the actual society.

Well following your thought process, the country is also irrelevant since they don't follow Islamic teachings. On the Islamic Index which shows how a country's laws, economy and social values are in line with Islamic law Saudi Arabia came at the 91th place in the world, so not a beacon of Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic" state, yes the majority is Muslim but they are not even close to being am Islamic state.

Yes, you might say this but country after country, village afte village, iman after iman say that their countries, not just in the middle east but in Africa as well are following the teaches of Islam by killing infidels, imprisoning those who are other religions, restricting women from basic human rights, enforcing child brides, killing a young woman because she dared to fall in love, etc.

If many islamic countries, cities, towns, villages, tribes and clergy say that their way is what Islam teaches and requires, why should other not believe them? Actions speak just as loud as words.

You are picking and choosing just as much as they are picking and choosing.

Don't get me wrong. I admire your efforts. It must be heartbreaking to see a large part of your society to present THAT as the mainstream of your faith.

If your beliefs and practices were actually a large and vocal majority as the face of your religion then you would be looking at a different response to what you are saying. Unfortunately though, your voice is not. I don't fault you for trying.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be ause they say they deserve those thing does not mean that they are receiving them.

Any woman hidden away and imprisoned in a Saudi burka requiring family could say in a survey that women deserve normal basic freedoms. It doesn't mean anything based on what she is required to do because of Islam and how it is practiced in that society.

The survey is really irrelevant when you look at the actual society.

Well following your thought process, the country is also irrelevant since they don't follow Islamic teachings. On the Islamic Index which shows how a country's laws, economy and social values are in line with Islamic law Saudi Arabia came at the 91th place in the world, so not a beacon of Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic" state, yes the majority is Muslim but they are not even close to being am Islamic state.

Yes, you might say this but country after country, village afte village, iman after iman say that their countries, not just in the middle east but in Africa as well are following the teaches of Islam by killing infidels, imprisoning those who are other religions, restricting women from basic human rights, enforcing child brides, killing a young woman because she dared to fall in love, etc.

If many islamic countries, cities, towns, villages, tribes and clergy say that their way is what Islam teaches and requires, why should other not believe them? Actions speak just as loud as words.

You are picking and choosing just as much as they are picking and choosing.

Don't get me wrong. I admire your efforts. It must be heartbreaking to see a large part of your society to present THAT as the mainstream of your faith.

If your beliefs and practices were actually a large and vocal majority as the face of your religion then you would be looking at a different response to what you are saying. Unfortunately though, your voice is not. I don't fault you for trying.

Regardless of what those leaders say, the Muslims do not agree with them, nor do the, Muslims under their rules agree with them. I think you can understand how dictators think. I don't know if you read one of my earlier posts about this but I said that unfortunately they use religion in those areas to control and manipulate the masses. Look at all those regions, what do they have in common? Imperialism, colonialism, economic and political issues.What you're saying is that the religion in itself is the root of all those evils. That's the point I can't agree with. It's like you telling me the sky is purple, it doesn't matter how many times you say it, It won't be a fact, so saying those teachings are part of Islam because some people say they are wont make a fact. Yes , I'm a Muslim but I also study Islam academically. Islamic Law is very clear, precise but with complexities and we have scholars who dedicated their entire life to it. Just like Mathematics, there are a set of Basic Rules & Regulations that a mufti (Scholar who gives fatwa) must comply with. Those rules and regulations are The Holy Qur'an and the Sahih Ahadith which by any means cant be changed and haven't been changed for 1400 years and are used by all muslims. If you needed legal advice today, you wouldn't go ask Obama, you'd go to a lawyer. Just because someone says"this is an Islamic law" doesn't make it so. For me to agree with you, it would mean I'd have to say for the past 1400 years, all the scholars of Islam got it wrong, the only people who got it right are the politicians/leaders of these Muslim countries you're talking about. There are literally millions upon millions of Muslims in this world who agree with me that the Quran champions justice, equity, liberty, peace, and compassion and these Muslims accept the Quran in its entirety, which guides them to exemplify peace, tolerance, pluralism, and justice. Are we really going to believe that only the intolerant and dangerous Muslims accurately understand their faith, whereas the tolerant and peaceful Muslims do not? You want to judge Islam, do so but do it on its merit which is by the Quran and the example of the prophet Muhammad saw but not what Imam Google or Sheikh Wikipedia said.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be ause they say they deserve those thing does not mean that they are receiving them.

Any woman hidden away and imprisoned in a Saudi burka requiring family could say in a survey that women deserve normal basic freedoms. It doesn't mean anything based on what she is required to do because of Islam and how it is practiced in that society.

The survey is really irrelevant when you look at the actual society.

Well following your thought process, the country is also irrelevant since they don't follow Islamic teachings. On the Islamic Index which shows how a country's laws, economy and social values are in line with Islamic law Saudi Arabia came at the 91th place in the world, so not a beacon of Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic" state, yes the majority is Muslim but they are not even close to being am Islamic state.

Yes, you might say this but country after country, village afte village, iman after iman say that their countries, not just in the middle east but in Africa as well are following the teaches of Islam by killing infidels, imprisoning those who are other religions, restricting women from basic human rights, enforcing child brides, killing a young woman because she dared to fall in love, etc.

If many islamic countries, cities, towns, villages, tribes and clergy say that their way is what Islam teaches and requires, why should other not believe them? Actions speak just as loud as words.

You are picking and choosing just as much as they are picking and choosing.

Don't get me wrong. I admire your efforts. It must be heartbreaking to see a large part of your society to present THAT as the mainstream of your faith.

If your beliefs and practices were actually a large and vocal majority as the face of your religion then you would be looking at a different response to what you are saying. Unfortunately though, your voice is not. I don't fault you for trying.

Regardless of what those leaders say, the Muslims do not agree with them, nor do the, Muslims under their rules agree with them. I think you can understand how dictators think. I don't know if you read one of my earlier posts about this but I said that unfortunately they use religion in those areas to control and manipulate the masses. Look at all those regions, what do they have in common? Imperialism, colonialism, economic and political issues.What you're saying is that the religion in itself is the root of all those evils. That's the point I can't agree with. It's like you telling me the sky is purple, it doesn't matter how many times you say it, It won't be a fact, so saying those teachings are part of Islam because some people say they are wont make a fact. Yes , I'm a Muslim but I also study Islam academically. Islamic Law is very clear, precise but with complexities and we have scholars who dedicated their entire life to it. Just like Mathematics, there are a set of Basic Rules & Regulations that a mufti (Scholar who gives fatwa) must comply with. Those rules and regulations are The Holy Qur'an and the Sahih Ahadith which by any means cant be changed and haven't been changed for 1400 years and are used by all muslims. If you needed legal advice today, you wouldn't go ask Obama, you'd go to a lawyer. Just because someone says"this is an Islamic law" doesn't make it so. For me to agree with you, it would mean I'd have to say for the past 1400 years, all the scholars of Islam got it wrong, the only people who got it right are the politicians/leaders of these Muslim countries you're talking about. There are literally millions upon millions of Muslims in this world who agree with me that the Quran champions justice, equity, liberty, peace, and compassion and these Muslims accept the Quran in its entirety, which guides them to exemplify peace, tolerance, pluralism, and justice. Are we really going to believe that only the intolerant and dangerous Muslims accurately understand their faith, whereas the tolerant and peaceful Muslims do not? You want to judge Islam, do so but do it on its merit which is by the Quran and the example of the prophet Muhammad saw but not what Imam Google or Sheikh Wikipedia said.

Your previous quote on a different thread:

"Well they have been rejected by all reputable Muslim scholars and Theologians. Their actions are against Islam so ya they might think of me as a kuffar but it doesn't make them right. Btw, I don't like the term moderate Muslim, it somehow implies that Islam is only acceptable when it is diluted and that Orthodox Islam is violent or extreme. Muslims are just Muslims, some follow their religion, others don't. Same with all religions. There are practicing Christians and non practicing Christians. I wouldn't call them radical Christians or moderate Christians. The irony is Islam in itself is moderate so the term moderate Muslim is redundant....."

This is an example of where it seems you pick and choose as you see fit. Yet you say that others pick and choose to judge Islam as we see fit, instead of the 'correct' way.

Anonymous wrote:I get that hijab = modesty, and as long as the woman herself chooses to wear it, I have no issue. I do have an issue with young women wearing tight jeans that emphasize their form and yes, a head scarf. If they choose to embrace their Islamic affiliation, they should also embrace the tenets of modesty... or take off the headscarf.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be ause they say they deserve those thing does not mean that they are receiving them.

Any woman hidden away and imprisoned in a Saudi burka requiring family could say in a survey that women deserve normal basic freedoms. It doesn't mean anything based on what she is required to do because of Islam and how it is practiced in that society.

The survey is really irrelevant when you look at the actual society.

Well following your thought process, the country is also irrelevant since they don't follow Islamic teachings. On the Islamic Index which shows how a country's laws, economy and social values are in line with Islamic law Saudi Arabia came at the 91th place in the world, so not a beacon of Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic" state, yes the majority is Muslim but they are not even close to being am Islamic state.

Yes, you might say this but country after country, village afte village, iman after iman say that their countries, not just in the middle east but in Africa as well are following the teaches of Islam by killing infidels, imprisoning those who are other religions, restricting women from basic human rights, enforcing child brides, killing a young woman because she dared to fall in love, etc.

If many islamic countries, cities, towns, villages, tribes and clergy say that their way is what Islam teaches and requires, why should other not believe them? Actions speak just as loud as words.

You are picking and choosing just as much as they are picking and choosing.

Don't get me wrong. I admire your efforts. It must be heartbreaking to see a large part of your society to present THAT as the mainstream of your faith.

If your beliefs and practices were actually a large and vocal majority as the face of your religion then you would be looking at a different response to what you are saying. Unfortunately though, your voice is not. I don't fault you for trying.

Regardless of what those leaders say, the Muslims do not agree with them, nor do the, Muslims under their rules agree with them. I think you can understand how dictators think. I don't know if you read one of my earlier posts about this but I said that unfortunately they use religion in those areas to control and manipulate the masses. Look at all those regions, what do they have in common? Imperialism, colonialism, economic and political issues.What you're saying is that the religion in itself is the root of all those evils. That's the point I can't agree with. It's like you telling me the sky is purple, it doesn't matter how many times you say it, It won't be a fact, so saying those teachings are part of Islam because some people say they are wont make a fact. Yes , I'm a Muslim but I also study Islam academically. Islamic Law is very clear, precise but with complexities and we have scholars who dedicated their entire life to it. Just like Mathematics, there are a set of Basic Rules & Regulations that a mufti (Scholar who gives fatwa) must comply with. Those rules and regulations are The Holy Qur'an and the Sahih Ahadith which by any means cant be changed and haven't been changed for 1400 years and are used by all muslims. If you needed legal advice today, you wouldn't go ask Obama, you'd go to a lawyer. Just because someone says"this is an Islamic law" doesn't make it so. For me to agree with you, it would mean I'd have to say for the past 1400 years, all the scholars of Islam got it wrong, the only people who got it right are the politicians/leaders of these Muslim countries you're talking about. There are literally millions upon millions of Muslims in this world who agree with me that the Quran champions justice, equity, liberty, peace, and compassion and these Muslims accept the Quran in its entirety, which guides them to exemplify peace, tolerance, pluralism, and justice. Are we really going to believe that only the intolerant and dangerous Muslims accurately understand their faith, whereas the tolerant and peaceful Muslims do not? You want to judge Islam, do so but do it on its merit which is by the Quran and the example of the prophet Muhammad saw but not what Imam Google or Sheikh Wikipedia said.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To each his own.

That's right. And to each HER own. And as long as the woman is free to choose, I support her choice.

Anonymous wrote:I get that hijab = modesty, and as long as the woman herself chooses to wear it, I have no issue. I do have an issue with young women wearing tight jeans that emphasize their form and yes, a head scarf. If they choose to embrace their Islamic affiliation, they should also embrace the tenets of modesty... or take off the headscarf.