Anonymous wrote:

TheWife wrote:
Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

(Who just made an "all about me" post, since it is responsive to direct comments about me, and not specifically related to the nurse-in. Oh well. Such is life.)

You do realize this is getting really tedious? And that you are turning off supporters of the nurse-in? What are you trying to accomplish?

You know what? You're right. This is getting tedious. Anyone with any semblance of brain power who stumbles across this forum will see a group of women, hiding behind anonymity, taking every opportunity to criticize and attack someone (or any number of people) with a differing opinion. They will see women, who claim to be in support of breastfeeding and breastfeeding mothers, use such an environment to give voice to statements that they would, with their real name, in "real life," never feel comfortable airing because of their... at best inflammatory nature. Which is somewhat sad, actually. Because, you see, I feel confident enough in myself and my opinions to voice them as myself. But that is really beside the point.

I've been nothing but respectful here (well, perhaps except for that "widdle feewings" comment, but I am, after all, only human), and I have reasonably and fully explained my position and my intent. Aside from a few bizarre, half-illiterate rantings of undetermined intent, most people have merely used this opportunity to complain. Nothing constructive seems to have been achieved, and certainly those in support of breastfeeding rights and who support nursing mothers are not going to change their minds. So... I've said my piece. My opinion and beliefs are out there. At the risk of being self-aggrandizing, I have provided a voice of reason. Since I have not hidden behind an anonymous face, anyone who would like to speak with me about this can easily find me. And anyone who would like to continue this discussion may contact me to do so, publicly or privately.

In the meantime? I have a headache. I'm tired. I've spent the day caring for my children and doing chores, on top of getting very little sleep since I am a chronic insomniac. And I have a busy and important week ahead of me. So, hey: you win. I'm calling it, literally and figuratively, a day. And if that appears to be a "flounce," well, sadly I can't help that, and I can live with it either way.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:I've posted a ton of times in support of the protest.

BTW, I was and am in full support of the nurse-in. But unfortunately, it is starting to become about a person named "The Wife / Jennifer." Annoying plug for her blog, perhaps, or just someone who can't let a single tit go without saying tat (no pun intended). The first few posts were great and informative, if a bit long. But now you're just making it about you.

I mentioned my blogs by way of explanation of my "creepy" user name, yes. I posted a link (twice) that contained a news article, about nurse-ins and breastfeeding rights, from ~6 years ago, which is difficult to find in any other location. And the vast number of my posts have been in specific response to attacking, insulting, and rude posts by anonymous posters who lack the decency to defend their spurious statements.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

(Who just made an "all about me" post, since it is responsive to direct comments about me, and not specifically related to the nurse-in. Oh well. Such is life.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone is against breast feeding in public, just cover up. This is so simple but after reading many posts, with the exception of Jennifer's rants, too many want a confrontation and this is not helping your cause. Martin Luther King and Ghandi succeeded because they were "peaceful."

Ladies, as has been pointed out several times, you are hurting your cause if you proceed with this proposed demonstration.

Sorry, I meant that Jennifer's rants are book length and haven't read them word-for-word. She has been vociferous in extolling the virtues of confrontatio.

Ah, so glad you've been able to discern my intent, meaning, and purpose without actually reading my posts. How... omniscient of you.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:A breast feeding advocate PP here. However,  I am reminded of a lady sitting next to me at the national building museum last summer as we watched our kids playing with the lego pieces and making small talk. At a certain point sheneeded to nurse the baby she was carrying, which was fine, and proceeded to do so. A  little later i looked up to find the baby asleep on her lap but she simply did not bother to cover up. She just sat there, with one breast exposed for all the world and his wife ( not to mention the busloads of children milling around) to see. She had this determined look on her face as if daring anyone to question her actions. It was just unnecessary! 
 I completely understand that some babies do not like to be covered and nor do they need to be IMO and that the baby comes off the breast now and then and some women don't bother to cover (nor should they have to) every time baby slips off. This was very different. Baby was asleep for several minutes and the breast was just out there. It's women like that who give us bfers a bad name.

You're absolutely right. I don't know what she was thinking, and I've never encountered someone like that. If I had? I would have confronted her about it -- I don't need a woman like that being seen to represent me. Her behavior was inappropriate. Not to mention the fact that, at that point, it was no longer about breastfeeding -- she wasn't breastfeeding, was she? The baby was asleep on her lap, with no nursing involved.

I do hope that you know, of course, that this is not (in any way shape or form) what happened in this case, and is not the reason that Nori was approached.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the public isn't breastfeeding so we, the majority, should rule. We want women to use discretion, cover your breast, is that so difficult?

The majority of people are white Europeans. Therefor a white European does not need to care about the rights of someone who is a racial minority? The majority of people are not handicapped. Why should the rest of us have to give up perfectly acceptable parking spots just so that someone in a wheel chair can park closer? And those ramps take up so much space!

What rule of "discretion" should be used? My breast was never exposed, yet when I was nursing I was asked on several separate occasions to leave an area simply because I was in the process of feeding my child. The level of exposure was irrelevant. As it was for Nori, as are most incidences of breastfeeding discrimination. Asking moms to be "discreet," under these particular set of circumstances, is merely another way of trying to justify the illegal and improper behavior that took place. The level of "discretion" wasn't the issue that the guards took exception to, it was the act of breastfeeding itself.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I can kind of understand when men are uncomfortable by bf'ing, since they have spent most of their lives thinking of breasts as super-sexualized objects (although that doesn't supersede a woman's right to bf in public), but it absolutely boggles my mind when WOMEN are uncomfortable and unsupportive. Why??? It seems like we women are often our own worst enemies.

You're exactly right -- women are their own worst enemies. Think of what has been said: Someone who vocally supports breastfeeding without cow-towing to random, anonymous people on the internet, must be "unhinged." After all, disagreement is the worst possible crime. Well, that and feeding your child. (And yes, I see the irony in the fact that the name of my blog is "If You Disagree With Me, You're Wrong." lol) Someone who is comfortable feeding their baby must be an "exhibitionist." Why? Because they're not ashamed of their body, or what it's supposed to be used for? Someone who is not deferential enough to artificial notions of respect must have something wrong with them! After all, he's *whisper* The President! Not just a man, a father, who claims to support breastfeeding as natural and acceptable. There would never be a circumstance where breastfeeding would be necessary in a public situation that the president might attend! If you're at a march on capitol hill and the president is there? Better bring a bottle!

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:Shelli, that is a far more sane & sensible approach IMHO. I hate to say it but Jennifer, on the other hand, despite her efforts to sound otherwise, sounds somewhat, well, unhinged.

*sniff, sniff* Now my widdle feewings are hurt.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:When my wife began breastfeeding and was unable to be discrete (partially due to the fact that our son would not nurse while covered up and partially due to the size of my wife's breasts, which are pretty hard not to expose, at least partially), I was embarrassed at first. I got over it. Then when my parents came to visit, I was really embarrassed around my very conservative father, but then he got over it. As my wife told me, breastfeeding is hard enough to keep up with without the additional complication of worrying about what others think.

Being... um... somewhat largely endowed (DD/EEE) I can completely relate to your wife's difficulties. I was able to get around that by paying zero attention to fashion and only wearing rather large t-shirts. I may have been able to qualify for "What Not To Wear," but I was comfortable, and the shirt sort of acts as a natural cover -- for the mother, not the baby. So it was rather ideal.

My Father-In-Law was much like you, very uncomfortable with it at first. But he never, ever, said a word of censure to me (he's just an awesome man), and by a few months after my daughter was born it was a non-issue. He didn't even blink at me tandem nursing, at least not in front of me. If he did behind my back, he had enough tact and understanding to never let on. Intelligent people are able to adapt and change with the times, able to understand that just because something is different than what they're used to doesn't make it "wrong." My Father-In-Law also grew up in a household where salt and pepper were "exotic" seasonings. Now he loves spicy foods. Had he kept the mindset of "it makes me uncomfortable, therefore it's wrong" he might be a bit thinner but life would be a lot less enjoyable and a lot more limited.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this entire situation closely, and please let me make a few suggestions. First, let me introduce myself so that you may have a bit more understanding of my history and experience that gets me to these conclusions; my name is Shelli Zink, I'm a board member of the national non-profit FirstRight which was formed through the efforts of the Applebee's Incident in support of families discriminated against while breastfeeding in public.

I understand and empathize with the desire to Do Something. That's how FR was born. But a "nurse-in" at this point is not the best idea. It's simply a language issue. Those of you still in support of it are saying it's not a protest, it's a chance to educate and inform, but there's a key point here: the etymology of the word nurse-in is derived from a sit-in, ie. a peaceful protest (two different dictionaries define sit-in as:
a method of protesting the policy of a government, business, etc., in which demonstrators sit in, and refuse to leave, a public place, thus blocking traffic, disrupting operations, etc.; An organized protest demonstration in which participants seat themselves in an appropriate place and refuse to move). It inherently evokes feelings of negativity and protest and has traditionally been used that way. We have had in the past events called nurse-outs which helped negate that emotion some, but I would suggest an effort to organize a "Breastfeeding Awareness Day" that focuses on the aspects of normalizing breastfeeding and why women feeling safe and protected in public breastfeeding is so important to the health and well-being of children and removing all mention of the word "nurse-in". The Hirshhorn has stated they are looking forward to participating in an event, so use that. It's a great venue with all the nude art (and are there any breastfeeding pieces in the museum?), make that work for you, contact the press with releases to get some awareness, but don't use that word, and also make sure you have the original mother's permission and endorsement if you plan to use her name at all. Anyway, I hope that this has been helpful, and I'm glad that there are still so many passionate people out there, if we work together we can change the world.

-Shelli Zink
Advisory Board, FirstRight

Your suggestions are well thought out and very useful -- and your suggestions are already being implemented (appropriate contact with the press, having the original mother's permission, focusing on "normalizing" breastfeeding and that they should feel safe and protected in public -- the intent of the cards is just that). A "Breastfeeding Awareness Day" is a great idea and there is absolutely no reason that should not be implemented. Whether that should take the place of a specific organized event in response to a specific occurrence is incidental, though, as the two may share a common purpose but they have a different impact. The only thing I can't really do is take your suggestion to change the name. Because, while it may evoke images of a protest, it is also a commonly recognized term at this point, one that people understand, and one that has entered into the common lexicon. As I'm sure you've found, calling them "nurse-outs" hasn't effected the usage of the term, and we've got to work with what we have. So, while it's not ideal, we work within the bounds of what the average person understands. And let's be very honest here -- no matter what we call it, there are people (as evidenced here), who will still believe that no response is warranted simply because an apology has been made. Any steps taken beyond that point are "too much" to someone with that mindset.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:Your husband has to say these thing but you shouldn't trust him because you have been confrontational, rude and insulting, not to mention boring, and that may be the most offensive. When I take my 15 yr. old son and my 10 yr. old son out, not to mention my69 yr. old father to a restaurant, movie, church, or anywhere in public, they do need, nor do they want, to see women baring their breasts and nursing. Maybe your are discreet but you are one of the very few. My father could not believe his eyes. Your rights end where mine begin. The rights of breast feeding mothers end where the public's rights begin. It is disgusting to watch women Bf on Metro, on a park bench, in a museum. One of you zealots, in another thread, said she would plop out her boob in front of the President and nurse, None of you has a sense of public decorum. I saw a woman hike up her sweater (she was wearng no bra, and plop baby on breast. I was furuous with her. My children and my father were beyond embarrased. What makes you think that your rights supercede those of my children? They do not.

I do hope that sanity will prevail and these laws allowing women to breast feed anywhere they wish in public will be repealed and another law enacted that they may breast feed in public but must cover breast and cannot breast feed in museums, restaurants, movies, or park benches.

Which am I, a zealot with no sense of decorum, or boring? Give examples, "Anonymous" of anything (at all) that I've said that has been "confrontational," "rude," or "insulting" -- again, every post I've made is under my own name, so I'm sure you can back up your claims.

As has been pointed out, this incident took place at an art museum. Where one is confronted by bared breasts (and naked, overweight, hairy men as well) in any and every set of circumstances. If that is "art," then how is the possible sight of a woman's breast, in the context of its intended use, "disgusting?" Would I breastfeed in front of the president (assuming, of course, that I were still breastfeeding)? Yes. Because, no matter how frequent or common-place my NIP was, it never involved exposing myself. That and, supposedly, our president is in favor of breastfeeding rights. So, unless he's a hypocrite, I doubt it would bother him or surprise him.

As for my rights being able to "supercede" those of your children, I'm curious: do the rights of your children supersede the rights of my child? Because my child(ren) has/have the right to be fed in the healthiest possible manner, when and where they need to be, just as a child fed with a bottle does. And, unfortunately, as with everything in life, you have to take the bad with the good. For every woman who "hike(s) up her sweater" without a bra (which I've never seen -- not ever), there are literally hundreds of women who do not. And they do not deserve to be harassed, embarrassed, or attacked because of the actions of another person. (Nor do I deserve vitriol that should be aimed at someone you seem to be otherwise angry with -- or to be lumped in with any and everyone simply because they claim to be in favor of breastfeeding rights, as evidenced by some of the posts here.) That's the same type of argument that leads to bigotry, racism, and other forms of discrimination; some people behave badly or inappropriately, therefore everyone "like them" is just as "bad."

All that said, do you really, truly believe that your 15 year old son does not "want, to see women baring their breasts?" If he is a normal, healthy, average, heterosexual 15 year old boy, then there's very little in this world that he wants to see more than a woman baring her breasts. Fortunately, the number of women who would have the desire to expose themselves to a 15 year old boy, especially while in the non-sexual act of breastfeeding, is infinitesimal, so I don't think you have much to worry about on that front. Thankfully, my children have not been taught that the human body is "disgusting" and that catching a glimpse of it, in any possible context, should be viewed as embarrassing. That kind of thought process produces low-self-esteem and self-worth in girls, and in boys it perpetuates the notion that women are sexual objects whose bodies are for their sexual use. Your father's prejudices and biases have apparently been passed down to you, and are now being passed on to your children. You have a chance to stop that, but I somehow doubt you will.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixx66T-FPYM

Um... Okay? Maybe I'm just too tired, or perhaps all of the over-exposure to romance novels that I already suffer from has inured me to anything remotely linked to a romance novel...

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:Is this "The Husband"?

Not unless "The Husband" (who, as I said, uses the pseudonym of "Uncle Walter") is able to type in his sleep. He's snoring beside me. I could post a picture if you'd like. (Hm. Actually, I'm not sure if I can here, since I'm unfamiliar with the board, but I suppose I could post one at my blog and then link to it here.) Besides, he knows me waaaay too well to ever think I'm a "lady." lol

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:You misunderstand me. I don't *claim* to be supportive. I am. I just don't agree with your strategy. And for that reason, you decide to criticize, ostricize, and attack me. Again, please consider a more deliberate response to an issue that includes a lot of us. You are dismissive of feedback that doesn't fit your agenda.

Where have I "criticized," "ostracized," or "attacked" -- at any time? All of my posts have been made publicly and under my own name, not behind the name "Anonymous," so feel free to point out any criticism, attack, or act of ostracizing I have perpetrated. If I have done so, I whole-heartedly and unreservedly apologize.

And, yet again, I ask: What other method do you suggest be employed to ensure that the same level of public awareness is directed toward this topic? What steps do you suggest be taken that will allow for *public* dissemination of information, and to draw attention toward the topic? What steps can be *publicly* made in an attempt to prevent this from happening again -- both on a specific scale (on Smithsonian property) and in general?

At the risk of being even more repetitive: consider me all ears.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:Jennifer (aka "The Wife"),

You are more than enough reason for me to NOT to attend the event. And I am a huge supporter of this cause.

Again, a helpful response from the nosebleed section. If you find informed, polite, educated responses to be upsetting in some way?... well, then... Whatever makes you happy. I do what I feel is important, you do (or do not, as the case may be) what you feel is important.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:::eye roll:: Smug posts like this are why people don't like breastfeeding activists. I don't have a problem with a nurse-in; it just seems overblown, ridiculous and disruptive when the museum has already apologized and there's already a federal law in place.

What's the opposite of a nurse-in? A bottle-in? Anyone up for bottle-feeding their babies at the Hirshorn?

Did the law in place prevent this act of discrimination? Has it prevented ill-informed people from claiming that only certain mothers should be protected from censure? (Those who follow whatever arbitrary definition of "discreet" is being demanded.) That only some babies should be fed in peace? An apology after the fact prevents it from happening again how, exactly?

Hey, I can handle being smug. I kind of feel smug. I'm doing what I feel is right, because I feel it's important, even though it has no direct impact on my life. As I said, I'm an inherently selfish person -- but I'm not unfeeling or uncaring.

Got a better suggestion? Consider me all ears.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")