Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your husband has to say these thing but you shouldn't trust him because you have been confrontational, rude and insulting, not to mention boring, and that may be the most offensive. When I take my 15 yr. old son and my 10 yr. old son out, not to mention my69 yr. old father to a restaurant, movie, church, or anywhere in public, they do need, nor do they want, to see women baring their breasts and nursing. Maybe your are discreet but you are one of the very few. My father could not believe his eyes. Your rights end where mine begin. The rights of breast feeding mothers end where the public's rights begin. It is disgusting to watch women Bf on Metro, on a park bench, in a museum. One of you zealots, in another thread, said she would plop out her boob in front of the President and nurse, None of you has a sense of public decorum. I saw a woman hike up her sweater (she was wearng no bra, and plop baby on breast. I was furuous with her. My children and my father were beyond embarrased. What makes you think that your rights supercede those of my children? They do not.

I do hope that sanity will prevail and these laws allowing women to breast feed anywhere they wish in public will be repealed and another law enacted that they may breast feed in public but must cover breast and cannot breast feed in museums, restaurants, movies, or park benches.

This is exactly why this subject attracts so much debate and why some people get so "obnoxious" about it (and let me be clear that the nurse-in, as proposed, is far from obnoxious). You talk about your rights to NOT be exposed to something, as if that's the basis of how rights are granted and protected in this country. It isn't. Laws protecting freedoms and rights aren't usually put in place to protect the majority. We wouldn't have civil rights laws if that were the case. Does a racist have a right to be offended by black people? Absolutely. Do they have a right to force a black person to sit at the back of the bus, or use a separate entrance so that they don't have to expose their children to their presence? Absolutely not. At least, not anymore. You do not have the right to decide that a woman may not breastfeed in public because it offends you. You do, however, have the right to turn away and even to cover the eyes of your 15 year old son. I ask you to consider what kind of message that is passing on, however.

My mother did not breastfeed me because, as she tells me, she was too embarrassed. I come from a very conservative family and was never exposed to breastfeeding growing up. When my wife began breastfeeding and was unable to be discrete (partially due to the fact that our son would not nurse while covered up and partially due to the size of my wife's breasts, which are pretty hard not to expose, at least partially), I was embarrassed at first. I got over it. Then when my parents came to visit, I was really embarrassed around my very conservative father, but then he got over it. As my wife told me, breastfeeding is hard enough to keep up with without the additional complication of worrying about what others think.

And yet, go to just about any other country on the planet and you will find not only a much higher rate of breastfeeding, but also a society that doesn't get offended by it. Breastfeeding in restaurants, movies, park benches, etc. is just normal. There is absolutely a correlation between the amount of women willing to breastfeed and the level of acceptance granted by society. Yes, breastfeeding is difficult enough without mothers having to worry about what your father and 15-year old son think about it.

This is why people are passionate about the issue. It isn't just about the law. As long as there are people in society who are offended by breastfeeding (and I think they are a minority at this point, based on the amount of positive feedback my wife gets when she is breastfeeding in public), then incidents like what happened at the Hirshhorn will continue, despite laws to the contrary. And so long as there are people who make women feel ashamed about it, there will be women who won't breastfeed at all. I support every woman's choice whether or not to breastfeed, but I don't want that choice to be made because she feels too embarrassed to do it in public.

TheWife wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shelli, that is a far more sane & sensible approach IMHO. I hate to say it but Jennifer, on the other hand, despite her efforts to sound otherwise, sounds somewhat, well, unhinged.

*sniff, sniff* Now my widdle feewings are hurt.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the public isn't breastfeeding so we, the majority, should rule. We want women to use discretion, cover your breast, is that so difficult?

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I can kind of understand when men are uncomfortable by bf'ing, since they have spent most of their lives thinking of breasts as super-sexualized objects (although that doesn't supersede a woman's right to bf in public), but it absolutely boggles my mind when WOMEN are uncomfortable and unsupportive. Why??? It seems like we women are often our own worst enemies.

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the public isn't breastfeeding so we, the majority, should rule. We want women to use discretion, cover your breast, is that so difficult?

Anonymous wrote:A breast feeding advocate PP here. However,  I am reminded of a lady sitting next to me at the national building museum last summer as we watched our kids playing with the lego pieces and making small talk. At a certain point sheneeded to nurse the baby she was carrying, which was fine, and proceeded to do so. A  little later i looked up to find the baby asleep on her lap but she simply did not bother to cover up. She just sat there, with one breast exposed for all the world and his wife ( not to mention the busloads of children milling around) to see. She had this determined look on her face as if daring anyone to question her actions. It was just unnecessary! 
 I completely understand that some babies do not like to be covered and nor do they need to be IMO and that the baby comes off the breast now and then and some women don't bother to cover (nor should they have to) every time baby slips off. This was very different. Baby was asleep for several minutes and the breast was just out there. It's women like that who give us bfers a bad name.

TheWife wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this entire situation closely, and please let me make a few suggestions. First, let me introduce myself so that you may have a bit more understanding of my history and experience that gets me to these conclusions; my name is Shelli Zink, I'm a board member of the national non-profit FirstRight which was formed through the efforts of the Applebee's Incident in support of families discriminated against while breastfeeding in public.

I understand and empathize with the desire to Do Something. That's how FR was born. But a "nurse-in" at this point is not the best idea. It's simply a language issue. Those of you still in support of it are saying it's not a protest, it's a chance to educate and inform, but there's a key point here: the etymology of the word nurse-in is derived from a sit-in, ie. a peaceful protest (two different dictionaries define sit-in as:
a method of protesting the policy of a government, business, etc., in which demonstrators sit in, and refuse to leave, a public place, thus blocking traffic, disrupting operations, etc.; An organized protest demonstration in which participants seat themselves in an appropriate place and refuse to move). It inherently evokes feelings of negativity and protest and has traditionally been used that way. We have had in the past events called nurse-outs which helped negate that emotion some, but I would suggest an effort to organize a "Breastfeeding Awareness Day" that focuses on the aspects of normalizing breastfeeding and why women feeling safe and protected in public breastfeeding is so important to the health and well-being of children and removing all mention of the word "nurse-in". The Hirshhorn has stated they are looking forward to participating in an event, so use that. It's a great venue with all the nude art (and are there any breastfeeding pieces in the museum?), make that work for you, contact the press with releases to get some awareness, but don't use that word, and also make sure you have the original mother's permission and endorsement if you plan to use her name at all. Anyway, I hope that this has been helpful, and I'm glad that there are still so many passionate people out there, if we work together we can change the world.

-Shelli Zink
Advisory Board, FirstRight

Your suggestions are well thought out and very useful -- and your suggestions are already being implemented (appropriate contact with the press, having the original mother's permission, focusing on "normalizing" breastfeeding and that they should feel safe and protected in public -- the intent of the cards is just that). A "Breastfeeding Awareness Day" is a great idea and there is absolutely no reason that should not be implemented. Whether that should take the place of a specific organized event in response to a specific occurrence is incidental, though, as the two may share a common purpose but they have a different impact. The only thing I can't really do is take your suggestion to change the name. Because, while it may evoke images of a protest, it is also a commonly recognized term at this point, one that people understand, and one that has entered into the common lexicon. As I'm sure you've found, calling them "nurse-outs" hasn't effected the usage of the term, and we've got to work with what we have. So, while it's not ideal, we work within the bounds of what the average person understands. And let's be very honest here -- no matter what we call it, there are people (as evidenced here), who will still believe that no response is warranted simply because an apology has been made. Any steps taken beyond that point are "too much" to someone with that mindset.

Jennifer (aka "The Wife")

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the public isn't breastfeeding so we, the majority, should rule. We want women to use discretion, cover your breast, is that so difficult?

You can have my nursing cover if you want and cover your face if don't want to look away.
My baby won't eat under that thing, he'll pull it and struggle to breathe. The poor kid feels claustrophobic.

But most for your happiness I usually BF using a carrier or sling so you don't need to look inside the Ergo if you don't want to.

A nurse-in is aggressive. It is 'in your face.' The 'education' aspect is an excuse. There are much better ways to 'educate' people that there are laws on the books that allow breastfeeding in public that do not involve alienating people. WHY is that alienating? WHY does it make people uncomfortable? Who knows -- and who cares. It would be a lot easier to take the time and effort for a few people to learn to be discreet than it would take to change the attitudes and feelings of the majority of society.

Anonymous wrote:As an ardent supporter of both breastfeeding and a woman’s right to do it in public venue when her child needs to be fed, I have been following this thread with great interest. I applaud and welcome the efforts of those like “the wife” who hope to educate the populace about the need to protect the federally sanctioned rights of women.

But I fundamentally disagree with the tactics behind the scheduled nurse-in, simply because in my mind, they won’t achieve the desired outcomes of education and recognition of the law. I happen to think that the sight of many nursing moms would be inviting and wonderful. But I have to be okay with the fact that it isn’t for others. We can change laws, and ensure that breastfeeding in public is a protected right, but we can’t change the minds of people who are uncomfortable with it. How wonderful it would be if we could, but we can’t.

Having multiple nursing moms descend upon the Hirrshorn and attempt to feed their children all at the same time is an artificial scenario. It doesn’t represent real life. And that is what we want right? For people to understand the “real life” of a breastfeeding mom? We are going to freak people out unnecessarily, to the point where they won’t read the literature, but simply walk out.

When I walk through the Hirrshorn, there are pieces I love, and others that I know would offend people. But they are not all in the same room. I see this as a parallel to the purported efforts of breastfeeding education. A consistent trickle works better than a fire hose.

Anonymous wrote:As an ardent supporter of both breastfeeding and a woman’s right to do it in public venue when her child needs to be fed, I have been following this thread with great interest. I applaud and welcome the efforts of those like “the wife” who hope to educate the populace about the need to protect the federally sanctioned rights of women.

But I fundamentally disagree with the tactics behind the scheduled nurse-in, simply because in my mind, they won’t achieve the desired outcomes of education and recognition of the law. I happen to think that the sight of many nursing moms would be inviting and wonderful. But I have to be okay with the fact that it isn’t for others. We can change laws, and ensure that breastfeeding in public is a protected right, but we can’t change the minds of people who are uncomfortable with it. How wonderful it would be if we could, but we can’t.

Having multiple nursing moms descend upon the Hirrshorn and attempt to feed their children all at the same time is an artificial scenario. It doesn’t represent real life. And that is what we want right? For people to understand the “real life” of a breastfeeding mom? We are going to freak people out unnecessarily, to the point where they won’t read the literature, but simply walk out.

When I walk through the Hirrshorn, there are pieces I love, and others that I know would offend people. But they are not all in the same room. I see this as a parallel to the purported efforts of breastfeeding education. A consistent trickle works better than a fire hose.

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the public isn't breastfeeding so we, the majority, should rule. We want women to use discretion, cover your breast, is that so difficult?