Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think she was a regular mom who had debilitating PPD after her 3rd child that turned into postpartum psychosis. It makes zero sense to me that she would commit this crime, in this way, if she was thinking rationally.

I think all the people insisting that she did this because she's an evil person are afraid to consider the possibility that an otherwise normal person can do something like this when suffering from a severe mental illness.

Disagree. Sociopaths and narcissists exist and people who insist she is mentally ill are afraid to consider the possibility they can be manipulated and fooled by such people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend had a post partum nervous breakdown at six months after weeks of insomnia triggered by baby sleep struggles. She tried to go on fmla but her boss forced her to quit instead with threatening action letters because she said she had ‘already taken too much maternity leave.’ This is the society we live in that tells moms they are too big a burden until some moms say ok i get it, I’m worthless, I will just kill my kids and myself. Which of you who are so disgusted or outraged at her has founght for universal maternity leave? Which of you has lobbied for safe affordable subsidized daycare? Or adequate (first world) maternal medical care? You are the disgusting ones, desperate to see a public lynching while this very minute there is an exhausted mom in the verge of crisis with no one to turn to. You are handmaid’s tale characters. Your righteousness is blasphemy.

This is dumb. You sleep train. Put the baby to bed at 7 and go back in at 6. That’s all it takes.

That’s why it’s hard for a manager to have empathy for a woman who is voluntarily getting up for a six month old baby.

Yeah I wonder if this plays a role in PPD too. I had a subordinate who was constantly complaining of complete exhaustion but was getting up 3, 4, 5, times a night with a 9+ month old baby (after taking 6 months of maternity leave) because she and her husband didn't let the baby cry, ever, for even a second, for any reason. The baby had never fallen asleep on his own in his entire life. I mentioned to her that we had sleep-trained our kids and they slept 12 hours a night at her baby's age (younger actually) and she looked at me like I was some sort of child abuser. The baby is now over 2 and I still don't think he sleeps well at all and she's still sort of a zombie.

Some babies are bad sleepers, even after sleep training. Some parents don't feel comfortable with sleep training because there is a whole school of thought that sleep training is cruel and gives your child lifelong attachment problems (I don't agree with that, but many many people push that view and tell moms it's cruel to sleep train, including on this board). In other developed countries parents can take leave for the whole first year and so they have time to work through this stuff. But here, if you aren't performing at full capacity at work after 12 weeks you are a failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think she was a regular mom who had debilitating PPD after her 3rd child that turned into postpartum psychosis. It makes zero sense to me that she would commit this crime, in this way, if she was thinking rationally.

I think all the people insisting that she did this because she's an evil person are afraid to consider the possibility that an otherwise normal person can do something like this when suffering from a severe mental illness.

Disagree. Sociopaths and narcissists exist and people who insist she is mentally ill are afraid to consider the possibility they can be manipulated and fooled by such people.

Yeah, she really put one over on me by completely destroying her own life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think she was a regular mom who had debilitating PPD after her 3rd child that turned into postpartum psychosis. It makes zero sense to me that she would commit this crime, in this way, if she was thinking rationally.

I think all the people insisting that she did this because she's an evil person are afraid to consider the possibility that an otherwise normal person can do something like this when suffering from a severe mental illness.

Disagree. Sociopaths and narcissists exist and people who insist she is mentally ill are afraid to consider the possibility they can be manipulated and fooled by such people.

Yeah, she really put one over on me by completely destroying her own life

seriously. this wasn't like chris watts who hid the children's bodies and clearly had a plan that he wanted a different life. I don't see anything in her history indicating a personality disorder and yet despite there being clear evidence there was PPD which can cause a break like this folks are grasping to convince us she's evil and plotting. It makes NO SENSE that she would choose this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think she was a regular mom who had debilitating PPD after her 3rd child that turned into postpartum psychosis. It makes zero sense to me that she would commit this crime, in this way, if she was thinking rationally.

I think all the people insisting that she did this because she's an evil person are afraid to consider the possibility that an otherwise normal person can do something like this when suffering from a severe mental illness.

Agreed. Because then they would have to consider the reality that THEY could do this. Truly. That is the reality. This kind of mental break can happen to anyone postpartum. Luckily it is extremely extremely rare (to this severity especially) so doesn't happen to the vast majority of us, but I think people always want to label folks as evil because it protects them from understanding the complexity and all of our vulnerability as humans susceptible to mental illness. I just thank GOD I was not the mom that got this level of mental break.

Lindsay did ask for help multiple times, say to people something wasn't right even after having her initial concerns dismissed by a provider (been there myself) she still told her husband again when having the initial ideations and voluntarily hospitalized herself. Very difficult to do. It just doesn't make sense that she would then have been plotting something unless something had gone very wrong in her brain in those next weeks.

Thank you both. I'm with you 100%.

[Anonymous]

The other thing is that NONE of us have access to her medical records. We have no idea what was going on. She was on an anti-psychotic. This was not garden variety post-partum depression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The other thing is that NONE of us have access to her medical records. We have no idea what was going on. She was on an anti-psychotic. This was not garden variety post-partum depression.

In any cases, being on an antipsychotic means nothing - in terms of psychosis. Some anti-psychotics only act like antipsychotics at specific doses. At lower doses, they act on other receptors and are used frequently off label for these effects. She was on Seroquel, and Seroquel is very commonly used for sedation (sleep), anxiety / agitation, depression in addition to psychosis. It only has antipsychotic properties at high doses. This link has a graphic that shows you what receptors it acts on at various doses.

https://bipolarnews.org/?p=251

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think she was a regular mom who had debilitating PPD after her 3rd child that turned into postpartum psychosis. It makes zero sense to me that she would commit this crime, in this way, if she was thinking rationally.

I think all the people insisting that she did this because she's an evil person are afraid to consider the possibility that an otherwise normal person can do something like this when suffering from a severe mental illness.

Agreed. Because then they would have to consider the reality that THEY could do this. Truly. That is the reality. This kind of mental break can happen to anyone postpartum. Luckily it is extremely extremely rare (to this severity especially) so doesn't happen to the vast majority of us, but I think people always want to label folks as evil because it protects them from understanding the complexity and all of our vulnerability as humans susceptible to mental illness. I just thank GOD I was not the mom that got this level of mental break.

Lindsay did ask for help multiple times, say to people something wasn't right even after having her initial concerns dismissed by a provider (been there myself) she still told her husband again when having the initial ideations and voluntarily hospitalized herself. Very difficult to do. It just doesn't make sense that she would then have been plotting something unless something had gone very wrong in her brain in those next weeks.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think she was a regular mom who had debilitating PPD after her 3rd child that turned into postpartum psychosis. It makes zero sense to me that she would commit this crime, in this way, if she was thinking rationally.

I think all the people insisting that she did this because she's an evil person are afraid to consider the possibility that an otherwise normal person can do something like this when suffering from a severe mental illness.

Disagree. Sociopaths and narcissists exist and people who insist she is mentally ill are afraid to consider the possibility they can be manipulated and fooled by such people.

Yeah, she really put one over on me by completely destroying her own life

I’m not talking about her specifically manipulating you, but people like you are easy targets for narcissists in general because you deny it even when it’s staring you in the face. I’m sure she’d be overjoyed there’s fools out there who consider her a victim whose life has been destroyed. She’s happy her kids are gone and she’s already looking towards the future. Her first written words when she woke up were “do I need a lawyer?”

[Anonymous]

Re sleep training, it could be one of her kids was especially challenging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think she was a regular mom who had debilitating PPD after her 3rd child that turned into postpartum psychosis. It makes zero sense to me that she would commit this crime, in this way, if she was thinking rationally.

I think all the people insisting that she did this because she's an evil person are afraid to consider the possibility that an otherwise normal person can do something like this when suffering from a severe mental illness.

Disagree. Sociopaths and narcissists exist and people who insist she is mentally ill are afraid to consider the possibility they can be manipulated and fooled by such people.

Yeah, she really put one over on me by completely destroying her own life

I’m not talking about her specifically manipulating you, but people like you are easy targets for narcissists in general because you deny it even when it’s staring you in the face. I’m sure she’d be overjoyed there’s fools out there who consider her a victim whose life has been destroyed. She’s happy her kids are gone and she’s already looking towards the future. Her first written words when she woke up were “do I need a lawyer?”

Looking toward a future paralyzed and in prison?

Makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sounds like members of Lindsay’s Army of love are here and passionately defending a child murderer. Babies and children can be slaughtered but the opportunity to defend a homely, white, professionally unaccomplished, pill popping and attention seeking failure must never be squandered. The projection is real.

Gross, no, and no one is passionately defending her personally in the way that you're suggesting. Repulsive.

Yes, they are, vociferously and repeatedly. They’re repulsive.

+100. I can only wonder what kind of family life people like PP have. It can’t be good. With all these new details, only the lowest of the low and personality disordered individuals could defend or empathize with this woman. I can’t even type her name, I’m so horrified and disgusted by her acts and that’s as it should be. Society needs to stop normalizing and excusing psychopathic behavior.

This stuff revealed in the hearing is very disturbing. But I think people really want to reserve judgment because these murders are just so out of the norm. When Bryan Kohberger was arrested, that made sense - angry jealous stalker type. Once we found out about Chris Watts’ affair, that made sense - enraged husband who wanted a new life. (Though I personally believe he only meant to kill his wife, and only killed the kids because he was temporarily insane and thought they would be better off dead than without a mother).

Here, this just doesn’t make sense. If Lindsay regretted having kids, why not just leave her family? Why risk life in prison by murdering them? And if she did decide that murder was the only way, why do it in this manner? She could’ve at least tried the Susan Smith route. Or a car accident, carbon monoxide poisoning, house fire, etc. Why kill them in a way that directly implicates her? And people on here are saying that she didn’t really intend to kill herself because she jumped out a window. But she’s paralyzed from the waist down, so I think she did actually want to die. She could’ve just taken a bottle of benedryl if she really want to “pretend”. It just doesn’t make sense! Either she’s the dumbest killer ever or she really was out of her mind.

At any rate, some of y’all are way too angry with her. Like the pp who said she’s professionally unaccomplished. Way to crap on an entire group of l&d nurses! Are they all professionally unaccomplished?! And she’s not homely. She’s a solid 7, and an 8 in some of her pictures. Of course Ted Bundy was a total smoke show so that doesn’t mean anything… but why go there? Y’all are weird.

I agree with this. For the people who think she's just a cold-blooded killer, what is the theory for why she did this? Like did she really think her life would be better as a jailed murderer/in a mental institution? Even if she gets away with no incarceration, she will be notorious all over the country for the rest of her life for killing her children. People will either hate or pity her. Especially for someone who seemed to love being admired and thought of as a perfect instagram supermom, it just makes no sense.

She tried to kill herself so I think she thought she'd be dead not in jail/mental institution. Of course you could argue that there are much more effective ways of killing yourself and that her method wasn't that likely to lead to death but she obviously wasn't thinking rationally or logically. She also probably ran out of time, as horrible as that is to say. She realized her husband would be home any minute so in her mind she had to act quickly to try and kill herself before he returned and she got desperate and jumped out a window. Maybe if she had had more time, she would've tried another method that was more likely to lead to her own death.

This is actually a good point and could explain why she didn't kill herself effectively enough. While I don't think she had psychosis I do believe she wanted to and expected to die that day. I don't think planned to survive what she did.

She locked the bedroom door, make a few superficial cuts while looking at herself in the mirror (that had dried/stopped actively bleeding by the time her husband found her), and then jumped out the window. She's a nurse. If she wanted to die by suicide, why didn't she cut a major artery?

Look, I'm not one of her defenders and I think she belongs in jail. But why would she want to live?

Shrug. I agree w/ you, I wouldn't want to live, either. I just don't think she really wanted to die - otherwise she could've effectively done that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend had a post partum nervous breakdown at six months after weeks of insomnia triggered by baby sleep struggles. She tried to go on fmla but her boss forced her to quit instead with threatening action letters because she said she had ‘already taken too much maternity leave.’ This is the society we live in that tells moms they are too big a burden until some moms say ok i get it, I’m worthless, I will just kill my kids and myself. Which of you who are so disgusted or outraged at her has founght for universal maternity leave? Which of you has lobbied for safe affordable subsidized daycare? Or adequate (first world) maternal medical care? You are the disgusting ones, desperate to see a public lynching while this very minute there is an exhausted mom in the verge of crisis with no one to turn to. You are handmaid’s tale characters. Your righteousness is blasphemy.

This is dumb. You sleep train. Put the baby to bed at 7 and go back in at 6. That’s all it takes.

That’s why it’s hard for a manager to have empathy for a woman who is voluntarily getting up for a six month old baby.

A child with autism or health issues may not be possible to sleep train.

[Anonymous]

Could be she didn't think she'd really get injured from the jump

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend had a post partum nervous breakdown at six months after weeks of insomnia triggered by baby sleep struggles. She tried to go on fmla but her boss forced her to quit instead with threatening action letters because she said she had ‘already taken too much maternity leave.’ This is the society we live in that tells moms they are too big a burden until some moms say ok i get it, I’m worthless, I will just kill my kids and myself. Which of you who are so disgusted or outraged at her has founght for universal maternity leave? Which of you has lobbied for safe affordable subsidized daycare? Or adequate (first world) maternal medical care? You are the disgusting ones, desperate to see a public lynching while this very minute there is an exhausted mom in the verge of crisis with no one to turn to. You are handmaid’s tale characters. Your righteousness is blasphemy.

This is dumb. You sleep train. Put the baby to bed at 7 and go back in at 6. That’s all it takes.

That’s why it’s hard for a manager to have empathy for a woman who is voluntarily getting up for a six month old baby.

Yeah I wonder if this plays a role in PPD too. I had a subordinate who was constantly complaining of complete exhaustion but was getting up 3, 4, 5, times a night with a 9+ month old baby (after taking 6 months of maternity leave) because she and her husband didn't let the baby cry, ever, for even a second, for any reason. The baby had never fallen asleep on his own in his entire life. I mentioned to her that we had sleep-trained our kids and they slept 12 hours a night at her baby's age (younger actually) and she looked at me like I was some sort of child abuser. The baby is now over 2 and I still don't think he sleeps well at all and she's still sort of a zombie.

OK guarantee you don't know the full situation with your co-worker. Sleep training does NOT work for every baby or every family. My second child woke up multiple times per night every night too. She would scream and cry to the point of vomiting and thrashing around in her crib/hurting herself by hitting her head on the sides of the crib if we let her "cry it out." It didn't work for us. Plus her scream-crying would wake up my older child because she was so loud that even w/ white noise and putting them as far away from each other as possible my older child (who is a great sleeper and slept 12 hrs a night from only a few months old so we never even had to try to sleep train him) would get woken up and not be able to go back to sleep from her screaming. It's not as simple as put the kid in their crib at 7pm and go back in the next morning. You don't know every situation and that type of sleep training does not work for everyone.