4.5 year old cannot go to sleep

[Anonymous]

HELP. My 4.5 year old DD is a freak of nature and it's killing us. She has not napped since just before 3. We were on a 745pm- 7am sleep schedule the past year but suddenly the last few months we have slipped and it's now 1030/11pm to 7am. We have a set schedule every night - dinner, teeth, bath, PJ's then books but she now insists that I stay with her in the room until she is asleep. Fine except that is now taking 3 hours plus and if I leave the room she bursts into tears that "she misses me". She is an only child and in daycare all day (no naps but 2 hrs of quiet time). We literally run her outside after school till dinner time with the neighbors - and they do PE, and go outside twice at daycare). What can I do? I am desperate as she has lost all self soothing sleep skills. She was sleep trained at 6 months and used to go down no problem 7-7.
White noise is on/dark room and I have literally put her to bed every night since covid - we have a set routine with my husband doing bath and then we switch off for bedtime. What can I do? I ask her and she says "she's not tired".

[Anonymous]

I'm in a similar situation. Only child who was a very good sleeper early on, like crazy good. Gave up naps just prior to 3. Recently- maybe prior to covid around 3 and 1/2 started to have more issues falling asleep but manageable. Things ramped up a bit during covid because our schedule was so off. Now (newly 5) it is hit or miss with her falling asleep but starting to get better. Things that have helped: starting the bed time routine earlier, reviewing specific expectations (you get 3 books, time to talk about your day, back rub) and let her read in bed if she wants. There are no toys in her room. She still stalls a bit but there is less separation anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Night light, check on her every 5-10 minutes, she needs to be a brave girl. When she calls out for you say ‘I’ll be there in five minutes.’ Dads are usually better at this as they ignore more , try to have him do bedtime for a week or so. Remind her she can sing or talk to herself

[Anonymous]

You are missing her sleep window. Move the the time back 5 minutes every night until you find the sweet spot. Many 4 year olds don’t need that nap or quiet time. I actually skipped a great preschool because they included a THREE hour nap for 4 year olds, and the havoc that would wreak on our evenings wasn’t worth it.

So find the sweet spot. We used to literally not bother to put our kids to bed if we missed the window. So if their bedtime was 8, and for whatever reason they weren’t in bed by then, we waited until 9:30 for the next cycle. Sounds crazy, but trying to force them into bed at 8:30 meant them rolling around and talking until 11.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are missing her sleep window. Move the the time back 5 minutes every night until you find the sweet spot. Many 4 year olds don’t need that nap or quiet time. I actually skipped a great preschool because they included a THREE hour nap for 4 year olds, and the havoc that would wreak on our evenings wasn’t worth it.

So find the sweet spot. We used to literally not bother to put our kids to bed if we missed the window. So if their bedtime was 8, and for whatever reason they weren’t in bed by then, we waited until 9:30 for the next cycle. Sounds crazy, but trying to force them into bed at 8:30 meant them rolling around and talking until 11.

OP here : funny you say this but we are actually leaving our daycare and going to a preschool this fall with a drastically reduced 30 min quiet time for this main reason. I've tried to figure out her sleep windows to no avail - if we put her down at 7 she's up at 3am wanting to have a deep conversation about how many stars are in the sky. I'll try to back it up a few minutes tonight and see if that helps.

[Anonymous]

She might actually need less sleep now! as long as she is getting 10 hrs per day, she is within healthy range.

[Anonymous]

Start bedtime routine at 8.

Use bribery - sticker chart kind of thing with prize.

Do not give in and go back into the bedroom.

[Anonymous]

2 hours of quiet time is probably too much, unless she’s being run ragged the rest of the time. This would be my DD, who dropped all naps by 2.

I agree with the sleep window; DD certainly has one. Too early, she won’t settle, and too late she’s overtired and won’t settle. For us, that means bedtime routine around 830, with the goal for her to settle shortly after 9, with the top end of her being asleep 930. I know that’s late for some families, but she’s always been a poor sleeper, and with remote learning she usually doesn’t have to wake until 8, but is usually up long before that on her own.

[Anonymous]

You’re missing asleep window. My son is 4 1/2 and he’s the same way.

[Anonymous]

*the sleep

[Anonymous]

Yeah mine was like this until we dropped the nap/quiet time. It still takes quite a bit of work to get him down but he’s normally out by 830 and up at 630-7…

[jsmith123]

Kids' sleep needs change over time. I know some kids at that age who slept 12 hours over night, but mine are both lower sleep needs and 10 hours is what they get no matter what time they go to sleep.

I tried the "sleep window" thing with my now 6 year old, and he would go to bed early and then wake up 10 hours later regardless.

I think maybe 9 to 7 might be a more realistic goal for your daughter.

If you are putting her to bed when she's not tired, she's going to be bored and want company, get up over and over etc.

I would try to start fresh with a new bed time and a new routine. Tell her how it's going to go and stick to it.

I would give her one "pass" (print something cute) for her to use to get out of bed if needed. Once she uses the pass, she's done.

And I would start by doing regular checks so she knows you'll be back in.

She gets a reward if she follows directions, and punishment if she does not.

Consider letting her listen to an audio book or something to entertain her.

[Anonymous]

She’s keeping herself up to keep you with her. You need to change the bedtime routine so you don’t go in. It’s okay for her to miss you. It’s okay for her to cry. She needs sleep and isn’t getting enough.

I would give her a token and say “after we kiss you goodnight you can come out ONE time for an extra kiss or if you need something and other than that I’m not going into your room” and see how that works.

[Anonymous]

My kids would never go to sleep if we were in the room with them, to be honest. We have a sweet good night routine and then my 4 1/2 year old is allowed to talk quietly to her babies in her bed (she has about a thousand stuff animals). She goes to bed at 8. If she's still up at 8:30 we tell her to be quieter. She has a stoplight clock and isn't allowed out of bed when it's red unless it's an emergency.

[Anonymous]

My 4.5 year old used to do that. She's 8p-7am. My husband was sitting with her and I told him it was bad habits. Now I go in and I say I'll check in with you after I put on my PJs. I check on the monitor. She says I know you're lying. I say it's bedtime, close your eyes, you dont have to go to sleep but you can't get out of bed. For a few days she was coming downstairs and we'd walk her back up. I would tell her sternly, stay in bed. My husband will sit with her longer and I hate it. I also tell her that her teddy needs his mommy to cuddle with him so he can fall asleep. Melatonin helps when we get off a rhythm.