MCPS to end areawide Blair Magnet and countywide Richard Montgomery's IB program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

Some do it as they don't have the MV option but some schools start in 6th, so they don't have enough classes to graduate. Stats is a good class but not for some majors for college - they want MV and higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pushback on the viability of recreating magnet programs on regional basis:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/2025/08/13/mcps-program-changes-concerns/

Good, and we need a lot more of this. It was strategic that they introduced this proposal during the summer, when fewer parents and teachers are paying attention. They sought no input, and they thought they could build momentum for it before there the pushback.

The best comment is the final line: “Because we can have all these wonderful regions … but if we still have a disparity in the outcomes, are we really putting the equity lens on that?” This is what I keep coming back to regarding the proposal: what does it actually fix? What's the point of destroying these great programs? There's no logic or rationale to it.

They are not destroying the programs. They are expanding access to the programs for the great many who are able to handle the rigor but did not have application luck.

They ARE dismantling the magnet programs. There are insufficient teachers who can teach advanced programs. From the article: Taylor said the district’s recommendation includes areas of certification the district offers, but he doesn’t know if there’s interest from faculty to “dive in and hyper-specialize.”

He doesn't know. That means he is making decisions with insufficient information. You can't expand programs without trained, hyper-specialized teachers for those programs.

The actual number of highly able students are insufficient to form regional magnets. We aren't provided information on these numbers because it likely would show that the number of highly able students cab't support rigorous magnets in all regions.

+1 The regional IB programs IBDP pass rate is much lower than RMIB's. That tells you that even the 4 regional programs they created a few years ago aren't as successful. Those programs don't offer some of the HL classes that RMIB does. Why? Because there is not enough interest and probably the teachers don't want to teach it/aren't certified to teach it.

And now MCPS wants to expand it to 6 regionals? Makes zero sense to do that.

Why would Taylor want to break something that is highly successful? I listen to staff, and it seems like they have already made up their minds, but don't really have the data to back up their actions. getting rid of the magnet programming will have negative consequences for the school district.

Who says it's highly successful? A few parents who don't want to change? I don't see it--there's just a few school clusters benefitting from the most selective programs (which points to the issue that the programs are too far away or too inaccessible for some parts of the county).

Any programs that produces more NMSF winners than all other county high schools COMBINED, I would consider them highly successful.

Unfortunately, no program in the county does that.

Shows how little you know about magnets

Actually, it shows that I know more about the magnets than you do.
No program in the county produces more NMSFS than all the other county schools combined. None

appears magnet programs collectively produced 87 (blair, RM, and PHS) out of 140 total for mcps. that's pretty special if you ask me

That's collectively, not single program.

Genius.

That was the claim, idiot

Oh nice. The magnet program does produce more NMSF than all other high schools combined. It’s a factually correct statement. Use your common sense. Dimwit.

Nope, not even close.

2025: Blair 42, all other MCPS high schools 98: https://www.mymcmedia.org/158-county-students-named-national-merit-semifinalists/
2024: Blair 41, all other MCPS high schools 121 https://www.mymcmedia.org/186-county-students-named-national-merit-semifinalists/
2023:

Wow, you are really not very smart. MCPS magnet program includes RMIB and PHS too. Where are their numbers?

Huh? There's no "magnet program" that includes multiple schools. There are lots of individual magnet programs (about a dozen.) People usually say "the magnet program" to refer either to Blair, or at certain individual schools they might mean that school's magnet program.

LOL. You must be new to MCPS. Carry on.

It's not a shame to admit you're wrong. As the PP said, there's no magnet program that includes multiple schools. If you say you're in a magnet program, people would ask you which one?

MCPS magnet program has three county wide programs. Are you arguing that is not the case? WTF?

What the heck are you talking about? The countywide magnets are RMIB, Poolesville Global Ecology, LASJ, Magruder, and VAC, right? Which three do you mean?

And what makes them a "program"? I suppose if you squint you could claim that Blair SMCS and Poolesville SMCS are some kind of integrated program, although they're not really. But then what would be the third? There's Poolesville humanities and Blair CAP, which are kind of similar but not really. There's RMIB and the regional IB programs. There's the Wheaton magnets. There's VAC. How do you pick which three you're talking about that count towards "the magnet program" as you call it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

Well noted.

Are you willing to fund other schools differentially enough for them to provide that level of education to their population in need of greater rigor, given that that might require smaller classes than in your area? Are you willing to fund much better ability identification, so that the needs of kids with potential are addressed via public mechanisms where family-based prep currently dominates?

This likely would mean higher taxes or less funding for your area, presuming the area you chose is as you describe because of the relatively high wealth/academic support available from families.

I'm all for provide resources and funding to help raise up disadvantaged and at risk student groups and they absolutely should.

BUT I am not willing to pay higher taxes if I do not see that I'm getting the value from it or even worse less than before. ie how MCPS appears to be lowering the standards for everyone and trying to take away advanced tracks.

Part of the issue with what MCPS is doing, as others have been posting, is that MCPS is lowering the bar rather than trying to bring the groups up to it.

It should not cost extra money to bring higher level classes to all schools.

How do you expect that to be the case? Where there is relative homogeneity of academic ability, there is less need for differentiation/cohorting, while more heterogeneous-ability populations require more, which is more logistically challenging, then requiring more funding to deliver.

This can be so whether that heterogeniety distributes more across the high end or the low end, though typically addressing differential needs of those with significant barriers -- intellectual, emotional, physical, linguistic, etc. -- is more costly than addressing those of students whose differential needs can be met with greater breadth/depth/rigor/pace. Moreover, schools addressing a higher proportion of the former (barriers), though they may receive some differential funding, do not receive enough to address the challenge in full, and then typically are faced both with that and with smaller, less logistically manageable (more costly) cohorts of those with high-end need.

You just change up a few classes and if you do more smarter kids will stay.

This does not address the question. The post explained why it would cost more to bring higher level classes to all schools.

"You just change up a few classes" offers no explanation of how the noted additional cost will be defrayed. Is it the expectation that by making this change that "smarter kids will stay" (are they leaving, now?), and that this waves a wand such that the population at the school suddenly goes from more heterogeneous with a greater proportion of students with significant barriers to a more homogenous one with fewer students with barriers? If not, the differentially high cost remains.

How is it a higher cost? They don't use textbooks except in a few classes. Teacher and other costs are the same. So, they take one regular/honors class and make it a AP or higher level.

Aside from the prior note about training, the higher cost comes from the less manageable cohort sizes. You don't get the same effect from in-class differentiation (if the teacher does that at all) as you do from cohorted classes. If you have 8 students needing a particular level of instruction, you need to allocate a teacher and a classroom for that cohort. This influences the student/teacher ratio and the FTEs needed to deliver the overall instruction at the school, and, of course, would add the cost of portables in schools at or near capacity/with no additional classroom space.

That's for elementary, but the same principle holds for secondary. If the cohort needing a differentiated class offering is small, a teacher and classroom would still need to be allocated to provide that instruction, with similar fiscal effect.

Those schools would need greater funding than schools with more manageable cohorts, and that would mean making the pie bigger (higher taxes) or making the slice given to each school somewhat proportional to the logistical burden (i.e., schools with the more manageable cohorts would get less).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

It has been particular communities that have encouraged, over many years, acceleration beyond the standard offered by MCPS, not the other way around. Once these lobbying efforts are successful, the teaching arrangement at a particular school (or among schools in a pyramid) sees inertia that tends to keep that option available.

From the system perspective, MCPS offers grade skipping and class advancement where standard acceleration/enrichment offerings prove inadequate. This typically is not encouraged, and in some cases actively is opposed by local school administration. The numbers each year are very low, but that may not count the community-encouraged individual school arrangements.

This is not to say that those having established a path to take Calc BC earlier than 11th grade should not also be provided MVC the year after, but that was already covered in the prior post (the second-to-last sentence mentioning "...in or before 11th").

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

It has been particular communities that have encouraged, over many years, acceleration beyond the standard offered by MCPS, not the other way around. Once these lobbying efforts are successful, the teaching arrangement at a particular school (or among schools in a pyramid) sees inertia that tends to keep that option available.

From the system perspective, MCPS offers grade skipping and class advancement where standard acceleration/enrichment offerings prove inadequate. This typically is not encouraged, and in some cases actively is opposed by local school administration. The numbers each year are very low, but that may not count the community-encouraged individual school arrangements.

This is not to say that those having established a path to take Calc BC earlier than 11th grade should not also be provided MVC the year after, but that was already covered in the prior post (the second-to-last sentence mentioning "...in or before 11th").

For MS. the accelerated math is to entice kids to go to those schools over their home schools. However, they don't tell you that you don't have enough classes to graduate if you don't go to a magnet school. But, then again, MCPS isn't known for transparency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

Name one college that expects kids to take MVC in high school. Every commentary I read says that professors lament rapid acceleration. Even many STEM colleges provide summer remediation for kids who have not even had Calculus in high school (let alone MVC), in order to ensure diverse student bodies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pushback on the viability of recreating magnet programs on regional basis:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/2025/08/13/mcps-program-changes-concerns/

Good, and we need a lot more of this. It was strategic that they introduced this proposal during the summer, when fewer parents and teachers are paying attention. They sought no input, and they thought they could build momentum for it before there the pushback.

The best comment is the final line: “Because we can have all these wonderful regions … but if we still have a disparity in the outcomes, are we really putting the equity lens on that?” This is what I keep coming back to regarding the proposal: what does it actually fix? What's the point of destroying these great programs? There's no logic or rationale to it.

They are not destroying the programs. They are expanding access to the programs for the great many who are able to handle the rigor but did not have application luck.

They ARE dismantling the magnet programs. There are insufficient teachers who can teach advanced programs. From the article: Taylor said the district’s recommendation includes areas of certification the district offers, but he doesn’t know if there’s interest from faculty to “dive in and hyper-specialize.”

He doesn't know. That means he is making decisions with insufficient information. You can't expand programs without trained, hyper-specialized teachers for those programs.

The actual number of highly able students are insufficient to form regional magnets. We aren't provided information on these numbers because it likely would show that the number of highly able students cab't support rigorous magnets in all regions.

+1 The regional IB programs IBDP pass rate is much lower than RMIB's. That tells you that even the 4 regional programs they created a few years ago aren't as successful. Those programs don't offer some of the HL classes that RMIB does. Why? Because there is not enough interest and probably the teachers don't want to teach it/aren't certified to teach it.

And now MCPS wants to expand it to 6 regionals? Makes zero sense to do that.

Why would Taylor want to break something that is highly successful? I listen to staff, and it seems like they have already made up their minds, but don't really have the data to back up their actions. getting rid of the magnet programming will have negative consequences for the school district.

Who says it's highly successful? A few parents who don't want to change? I don't see it--there's just a few school clusters benefitting from the most selective programs (which points to the issue that the programs are too far away or too inaccessible for some parts of the county).

Any programs that produces more NMSF winners than all other county high schools COMBINED, I would consider them highly successful.

Unfortunately, no program in the county does that.

Shows how little you know about magnets

Actually, it shows that I know more about the magnets than you do.
No program in the county produces more NMSFS than all the other county schools combined. None

appears magnet programs collectively produced 87 (blair, RM, and PHS) out of 140 total for mcps. that's pretty special if you ask me

That's collectively, not single program.

Genius.

That was the claim, idiot

Oh nice. The magnet program does produce more NMSF than all other high schools combined. It’s a factually correct statement. Use your common sense. Dimwit.

Nope, not even close.

2025: Blair 42, all other MCPS high schools 98: https://www.mymcmedia.org/158-county-students-named-national-merit-semifinalists/
2024: Blair 41, all other MCPS high schools 121 https://www.mymcmedia.org/186-county-students-named-national-merit-semifinalists/
2023:

Wow, you are really not very smart. MCPS magnet program includes RMIB and PHS too. Where are their numbers?

Huh? There's no "magnet program" that includes multiple schools. There are lots of individual magnet programs (about a dozen.) People usually say "the magnet program" to refer either to Blair, or at certain individual schools they might mean that school's magnet program.

LOL. You must be new to MCPS. Carry on.

It's not a shame to admit you're wrong. As the PP said, there's no magnet program that includes multiple schools. If you say you're in a magnet program, people would ask you which one?

MCPS magnet program has three county wide programs. Are you arguing that is not the case? WTF?

What the heck are you talking about? The countywide magnets are RMIB, Poolesville Global Ecology, LASJ, Magruder, and VAC, right? Which three do you mean?

And what makes them a "program"? I suppose if you squint you could claim that Blair SMCS and Poolesville SMCS are some kind of integrated program, although they're not really. But then what would be the third? There's Poolesville humanities and Blair CAP, which are kind of similar but not really. There's RMIB and the regional IB programs. There's the Wheaton magnets. There's VAC. How do you pick which three you're talking about that count towards "the magnet program" as you call it?

DP. County-wide magnet means open to every student in the county (if they have application luck). Blair SMCS is not county wide; RMIB is county wide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

Name one college that expects kids to take MVC in high school. Every commentary I read says that professors lament rapid acceleration. Even many STEM colleges provide summer remediation for kids who have not even had Calculus in high school (let alone MVC), in order to ensure diverse student bodies.

At risk of derailing this thread: some highly competitive colleges began offering remedial math because those students had been admitted through test optional policies and didn't realize how big a gap there was. Not because they actually wanted to offer or teach remedial math. That's why several of those schools have since reversed test-optional. I think MIT said it best when they effectively said that they provide support for students who need it, but require test scores because there is a level at which no support and intervention they provide can help students at a school like theirs.

Now back to regularly scheduled HS program analysis...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

Name one college that expects kids to take MVC in high school. Every commentary I read says that professors lament rapid acceleration. Even many STEM colleges provide summer remediation for kids who have not even had Calculus in high school (let alone MVC), in order to ensure diverse student bodies.

There aren’t any. Think how few high schools nationwide could send students to such a school. But there’s at least one poster who is absolutely convinced this is the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

Name one college that expects kids to take MVC in high school. Every commentary I read says that professors lament rapid acceleration. Even many STEM colleges provide summer remediation for kids who have not even had Calculus in high school (let alone MVC), in order to ensure diverse student bodies.

At risk of derailing this thread: some highly competitive colleges began offering remedial math because those students had been admitted through test optional policies and didn't realize how big a gap there was. Not because they actually wanted to offer or teach remedial math. That's why several of those schools have since reversed test-optional. I think MIT said it best when they effectively said that they provide support for students who need it, but require test scores because there is a level at which no support and intervention they provide can help students at a school like theirs.

Now back to regularly scheduled HS program analysis...

+1 this is true.

FWIW, my kid took MVC in HS and passed UMD's MVC exam, so they skipped MVC at UMD, but DC is also a math major, so taking advanced math in HS met their needs. They also took IBHL math, and got a 7 (5 on AP calc, 800 on SAT math).

But, *most* students don't need to take MVC in HS or even BC calc. My other DC won't be taking BC Calc; they are taking AP stats senior year because they aren't a math major, but they are a STEM major.

Most colleges don't require above Calc1 in HS for STEM majors. Heavy STEM orients schools like Caltech don't even accept AP scores (except when the schools don't offer those classes), and they make you retake some form of Calc even if you took it in HS because HS calc is often times not sufficient.

So, if your kid wants to go to some place like Caltech, they only really need Calc. I'm pretty sure all MCPS HS offer at least AP Calc AB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

Name one college that expects kids to take MVC in high school. Every commentary I read says that professors lament rapid acceleration. Even many STEM colleges provide summer remediation for kids who have not even had Calculus in high school (let alone MVC), in order to ensure diverse student bodies.

There aren’t any. Think how few high schools nationwide could send students to such a school. But there’s at least one poster who is absolutely convinced this is the case.

That's not the point. MCPS preaches equity but there is a huge inequity between schools. With such a large school system all kids should get the classes they need and want, not just a few select schools.

For CS, Engineering, math majors, they would like to see MV.

Why is it ok that your kids get access and ours don't? That's what it comes down to. You argue against it as its a non-issue for your kids as they have access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

Name one college that expects kids to take MVC in high school. Every commentary I read says that professors lament rapid acceleration. Even many STEM colleges provide summer remediation for kids who have not even had Calculus in high school (let alone MVC), in order to ensure diverse student bodies.

At risk of derailing this thread: some highly competitive colleges began offering remedial math because those students had been admitted through test optional policies and didn't realize how big a gap there was. Not because they actually wanted to offer or teach remedial math. That's why several of those schools have since reversed test-optional. I think MIT said it best when they effectively said that they provide support for students who need it, but require test scores because there is a level at which no support and intervention they provide can help students at a school like theirs.

Now back to regularly scheduled HS program analysis...

+1 this is true.

FWIW, my kid took MVC in HS and passed UMD's MVC exam, so they skipped MVC at UMD, but DC is also a math major, so taking advanced math in HS met their needs. They also took IBHL math, and got a 7 (5 on AP calc, 800 on SAT math).

But, *most* students don't need to take MVC in HS or even BC calc. My other DC won't be taking BC Calc; they are taking AP stats senior year because they aren't a math major, but they are a STEM major.

Most colleges don't require above Calc1 in HS for STEM majors. Heavy STEM orients schools like Caltech don't even accept AP scores (except when the schools don't offer those classes), and they make you retake some form of Calc even if you took it in HS because HS calc is often times not sufficient.

So, if your kid wants to go to some place like Caltech, they only really need Calc. I'm pretty sure all MCPS HS offer at least AP Calc AB.

So, basically what you are saying is because your school offers it and one child doesn't want to take it, its ok that the rest of ours doesn't have access to it. By your logic no school needs any math past Calc AB, so should we cut back math at all MCPS schools to Calc AB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might have the wrong type or unpopular type of view of these things.

But our kids didn't get into the GT or magnet programs. There were a couple of years where they made it to the lottery but didn't get selected. The same with some of their classmates and our neighbors.

Personally for our family we were okay with it.

The GT, IB and magnet programs are supposed to be for the academically elite, where only the top get in. We were perfectly fine with our kids not making it and going to our local school and is one of the reasons why we chose to live where we do.

As others are trying to say, if you increase the number and seats of the programs, it dilutes the programs and isn't as rigorous or advanced like how the programs are now. Which people are saying they are okay with because it suits the needs of the many instead of the very few.

But another way of looking at it, is that maybe MCPS should be focusing on improving the instruction and quality at their individual schools. So those students who don't get in to the county wide programs (either by not quite qualifying or just not get selected by the lottery) will still get the class selection and level that that they need. Instead of having some mediocre programs that might not be better than some of the local schools around here. And the issue with the offering of the potentially mediocre is that it sounds like they're going to change the current countywide program which is considered top tier.

I had to stop myself from posting in this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1287572.page

Because know that people will attack me as entitled. But I think there's something very wrong if a school doesn't have a track for students to take Algebra I by seventh grade and they have to look to going to a different school just to get on that track. But that just goes to show how there are different standards at different schools within the county and this is starting at elementary school. By the time students get to high school and eligible for these magnet/regional programs, students from different schools won't be on the same level based on the math tracks offered by their elementary schools.

What school doesn't have a track for kids to take Algebra I by 7th grade?

Every school has an algebra in 7th, I think, its just algebra in 6th, most don't. The bigger issue is the kid swho don't get into magnets and the schools stop at Calc BC leaving kids without enough math to graduate.

Doesn't every HS have AP stats? If they take AP Calc in 11th grade, they can take AP stats in 12th. Lots of kids do that.

That is not the proper path for any aiming at a STEM major in college. Calc BC needs to be followed by Multivariable Calc; otherwise, the student risks learning loss in the intervening year. After that, the sequence does not matter as much.

Stats, in general, is far more important than that for which it is given credit, and AP Stats is a good course to take, but not at the expense of continuity within the Calculus progression for those who will be utilizing the latter academically or professionally.

Given the MCPS standard higher-end acceleration (not by more accelerated/skipping exception) of Algebra in 7th, Math-focused/highly able students are on track to take Calc BC in 11th, and MVC should be available in person at each HS for that 12th-grade year (or any year after which Calc BC is taken).

Alternately, MCPS could guarantee admission to the regional STEM magnet (which, presumably, would offer MVC) for any student successfully completing prior to 8th grade/taking during 8th grade courses in MS that would lead to Calc BC in or before 11th. And they would have to plot that out without reliance on requiring the redundant (for the Math-focused/highly able) and slower Calc AB before Calc BC.

Its also an issue when MCPS at some schools encourages kids to start Algebra in 6th, then even with Stat's they don't have enough math classes to graduate but for STEM, many colleges want MV and the highest and Stat's is not "high" though a good class to take.

Name one college that expects kids to take MVC in high school. Every commentary I read says that professors lament rapid acceleration. Even many STEM colleges provide summer remediation for kids who have not even had Calculus in high school (let alone MVC), in order to ensure diverse student bodies.

There aren’t any. Think how few high schools nationwide could send students to such a school. But there’s at least one poster who is absolutely convinced this is the case.

That's not the point. MCPS preaches equity but there is a huge inequity between schools. With such a large school system all kids should get the classes they need and want, not just a few select schools.

For CS, Engineering, math majors, they would like to see MV.

Why is it ok that your kids get access and ours don't? That's what it comes down to. You argue against it as its a non-issue for your kids as they have access.

That is an assumption you are making, but that doesn’t make it true.

My kid is taking BC Calc as a junior and will take AP Stats as a senior because that’s what her school offers. She is planning to major in engineering. She will be fine.

If you want to argue for equal courses across MCPS schools, fine. Just stop pretending kids can’t get into competitive colleges without MV Calc.