Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

DP. And the psycho with a machine gun would blow right through your door. I mean, locks didn’t work at Sandy Hook because the shooter shot his way through the door.

You assume. You don't know. Maybe all officers needed was a delay. And what if the classroom door was locked too. But like what I stated previously, if Ramos came to your house with an AR-15, you would lock the door. But I suppose you may play devils advocate here and allege the lock is useless, calling police useless, and you'd just leave the door open and see.

DP. What the officers needed was a willingness to lay down their lives to protect children. The parents on the scene had it, but they didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

DP. And the psycho with a machine gun would blow right through your door. I mean, locks didn’t work at Sandy Hook because the shooter shot his way through the door.

You assume. You don't know. Maybe all officers needed was a delay. And what if the classroom door was locked too. But like what I stated previously, if Ramos came to your house with an AR-15, you would lock the door. But I suppose you may play devils advocate here and allege the lock is useless, calling police useless, and you'd just leave the door open and see.

There are investigative reports that documented that the door at Sandy Hook was locked and the gunman shot his way through it. Are you one of Alex Jones Sandy Hook deniers?

[Anonymous]

how is an armed guard going to stop these types of shooters who have automatic weapons and body armor?
The Buffalo store officer could do nothing although he did shoot at the perpetrator.

I suppose the school guards will need to wear body armor and carry automatic rifles with many rounds?
Otherwise, they will be just sitting ducks. A pistol will do nothing against these types of killers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

I’m not saying schools (or homes) should not be locked. Of course they should. I’m just saying that unless you want the buildings to be windowless, the AR15 will win every time.

Not to mention all you need is the badge from an outdoor staff member.

[Anonymous]

First response timeline [53]
Time Event
9:35 a.m. Lanza is believed to first enter SHES.
9:35:39 a.m. First 911 call to Newtown Police is received.
9:36:06 a.m. 911 dispatcher broadcasts shooting at SHES.
9:37:38 a.m. Connecticut State Police dispatched to SHES.
9:39:00 a.m. First Newtown police arrives behind SHES.
9:39:13 a.m. Two more Newtown officers arrive at SHES.
9:40:03 a.m. Last shot heard. Believed to be Lanza's suicide.
9:42:39 a.m. Newtown police reports Lanza's car license plate.
9:44:47 a.m. Newtown police officers enter SHES.
9:46:23 a.m. Connecticut State Police arrive at SHES.
9:46:48 a.m. Connecticut State Police enter SHES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

Because schools don’t have windows.

Congratulations - you win I just want to play devils advocate all day in a childlike manner. You must be a fun person to be around.

DP. You are debating with at least two different people. No one is playing devils advocate here. We are pointing out the flaws in your argument because we, unlike you, want to see real action taken that had an actual prospect of reducing gun violence. You want to make excuses and allow more children to be slaughtered, shredded so badly that they are only identifiable by their DNA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First response timeline [53]
Time Event
9:35 a.m. Lanza is believed to first enter SHES.
9:35:39 a.m. First 911 call to Newtown Police is received.
9:36:06 a.m. 911 dispatcher broadcasts shooting at SHES.
9:37:38 a.m. Connecticut State Police dispatched to SHES.
9:39:00 a.m. First Newtown police arrives behind SHES.
9:39:13 a.m. Two more Newtown officers arrive at SHES.
9:40:03 a.m. Last shot heard. Believed to be Lanza's suicide.
9:42:39 a.m. Newtown police reports Lanza's car license plate.
9:44:47 a.m. Newtown police officers enter SHES.
9:46:23 a.m. Connecticut State Police arrive at SHES.
9:46:48 a.m. Connecticut State Police enter SHES

Police entered the school without knowing that Lanza is dead. What is wrong with the Uvalde Police???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:how is an armed guard going to stop these types of shooters who have automatic weapons and body armor?
The Buffalo store officer could do nothing although he did shoot at the perpetrator.

I suppose the school guards will need to wear body armor and carry automatic rifles with many rounds?
Otherwise, they will be just sitting ducks. A pistol will do nothing against these types of killers.

I mean we give it to cops right? No system is perfect yet because the people behind the systems aren’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

Because schools don’t have windows.

Congratulations - you win I just want to play devils advocate all day in a childlike manner. You must be a fun person to be around.

WTF is wrong with you? 19 people died in this shooting. Nobody won.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fair to beat up these LEOs. We don't know the situation at all. Once the guy is in you can't really just barge in without having a plan. The shooter already was in - that room was totally shot up. I mean once he's locked into a room he's not going anywhere and the damage is done. You have to ensure the safety of everyone else in there. You can't just go in and shoot it up so they followed protocol and waited for SWAT. It's not like the movies people. I would suggest the right questions are why he's able to get in at all. You can fault not getting him in outside of the school but once he's in and barricaded there's not much you can do. I don't know if they knew he was barricaded or not but look at any other shooting at as school and the shooters either Jill themselves inside the school or outside the school. Or if you are already inside and can engage them but to blindly just go in shooting is not really sensible. I think it's easier to be angry in hindsight but in the moment they had to be sure they could get him. Of course it's infuriating this could happen at all, it's absolutely horrific he could be in and get into a room at all. But really you don't know the reason they waited to go in and maybe they were getting other kids out in the meantime which is the best they could have done.

This is standard practice. I did my first active shooter training when I started teaching at JHU. The trainer was a retired LEO and he told us "you need to understand this is not the movies. No one is coming to save you. It's most likely that you will encounter law enforcement after the shooting stops." There is so much magical thinking about what officers can do in situations where a murderer can kill so many in such a short amount of time, when they can shatter doors (my child's school sent out a long message about school security, but they still have those glass doors that a shooter could be through in seconds), and that's not even getting into the body armor (the security guard in Buffalo hit the shooter but still couldn't stop him). And, if LEOs are more aggressive they will risk friendly fire deaths.

The local police funded a tactical team with tactical gear — who apparently did nothing. I’d also be willing to wager that the local sheriff and Texas Rangers have their own response teams. What exactly were they doing? Giving tours to Ted Cruz at the border?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

I’m not saying schools (or homes) should not be locked. Of course they should. I’m just saying that unless you want the buildings to be windowless, the AR15 will win every time.

Round and round we go. How about this, although my suspicion is you just want to play devils advocate anyway indefinitely. But here goes trying:

1) We acknowledge locking doors is right thing to do at school.

2) We acknowledge Texas school was not locked.

3) We acknowledge an 18 year old shouldn't own an AR-15.

4) We acknowledge if Ramos didn't have an AR-15, he likely would've used a different gun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

Because schools don’t have windows.

Congratulations - you win I just want to play devils advocate all day in a childlike manner. You must be a fun person to be around.

WTF is wrong with you? 19 people died in this shooting. Nobody won.

That is, unless you consider 19 Hispanic people dead a win. With what you’ve posted here, it’s entirely possible you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

DP. And the psycho with a machine gun would blow right through your door. I mean, locks didn’t work at Sandy Hook because the shooter shot his way through the door.

You assume. You don't know. Maybe all officers needed was a delay. And what if the classroom door was locked too. But like what I stated previously, if Ramos came to your house with an AR-15, you would lock the door. But I suppose you may play devils advocate here and allege the lock is useless, calling police useless, and you'd just leave the door open and see.

Did they say the school wasn’t locked? The classroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

DP. And the psycho with a machine gun would blow right through your door. I mean, locks didn’t work at Sandy Hook because the shooter shot his way through the door.

You assume. You don't know. Maybe all officers needed was a delay. And what if the classroom door was locked too. But like what I stated previously, if Ramos came to your house with an AR-15, you would lock the door. But I suppose you may play devils advocate here and allege the lock is useless, calling police useless, and you'd just leave the door open and see.

Did they say the school wasn’t locked? The classroom?

Did he have to shoot his way through a locked door?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was Ramos able to enter the school? Were the doors unlocked, and anybody could just walk in holding a machine gun?

How did he gets machined gun?

I heard he bought the gun at a store. But how did he enter the school was the question I asked - was it not locked? Our public is locked after school starts.

Do you think a locked door is stopping a guy with a machine gun? Jfc.

Yes, I do. For a while at least, maybe he could have been shot by an officer outside. We have locks on our house and office. Locks are a great device for doors. If used.

Sandy Hook was locked.

Stop playing devils advocate. You lock your home front door. You lock your car. You have a keychain with keys for locks. And if a psycho with a machine gun came to your house, you damn well know you'd lock the door.

I’m not saying schools (or homes) should not be locked. Of course they should. I’m just saying that unless you want the buildings to be windowless, the AR15 will win every time.

Round and round we go. How about this, although my suspicion is you just want to play devils advocate anyway indefinitely. But here goes trying:

1) We acknowledge locking doors is right thing to do at school.

2) We acknowledge Texas school was not locked.

3) We acknowledge an 18 year old shouldn't own an AR-15.

4) We acknowledge if Ramos didn't have an AR-15, he likely would've used a different gun.

What? I agree with all of those statements, which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that an AR15 can gain access to a locked school easily.