Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Such guilt and self-hate, and such contrarianism, that privileged white Americans are siding with terrorist organizations supported by the likes of Russia, Iran and North Korea. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads of their ass-s and deal with reality.

Such continued racism and hate for Arabs and POC that privileged white Americans are siding with a terrorist state that supports apartheid and genocide of over 2 million people, while oppressing other religious minorities under a fascist state. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads out of their ass-s and deal with reality.

The right wing, fanatical, neo-fascist hate came from Hamas.

Ah yes, I keep forgetting how fairly Israel has treated Arabs and Muslims in the past. Like citizens with equal rights.
There's a reason that former colonies, oppressed countries and formerly enslaved people across the globe are for a Free Palestine. This struggle has played out before.

Israel does treat Israeli Arabs and Muslims as citizens with equal rights.
And you're wrong about who supports a free Palestine. It's largely privileged white westerners who hate themselves so much that they want to live under a caliphate.
Are you really blind to the fact that countries like India are vehemently pro Israel, while white Britons are in the streets screaming about gassing Jews?

You are clearly white. I read a lot of news from Latin America and the newspapers do not read like here. And the VAST majority of supporters of Palestinian rights are Arabs, Muslims, and POC - not white folks. IF there were more white people, the needle may move in favor but it has not. I don't think you know much about the movement at all. Question, do you have an Arab or Muslim friends? Friends with any latinos?

And yes, India has long been anti-Muslim. I mean, Modi. Come on. It's also why so many Indians voted Trump. Or did you not know there was an India-Pakistan rift?

DP. I follow Latin American news in Spanish and I disagree with your characterization entirely. There is simply not this universal support for Palestinians in Latin America that you are implying. In fact there is a great deal of distrust because of historic religious tension. Of course there is distrust of Israel too. But your characterization here is both inaccurate and misleading.

there is nothing misleading about the statement. I said that the "newspapers do not read like here", which is 100% on point. Folha de São Paulo has given far more even handed reporting than anything in US media. There were fights in the Brazilian parliament yesterday over the hospital bombings, and Lula has long been a supporter of Palestinian rights. Of course, Argentina is very pro-Israel because of the large Jewish population but other countries have been in firm Palestinian camps. You must not read enough because Colombia has now threatened to eject all Israeli diplomats, with Ecuador looking to condemn the same. VZ is clearly not a fan of Israel and Bolivia has followed suit.

I have no idea what you are reading in Latin America but you clearly aren't up to speed.

You are cherry-picking individual pieces of news to paint a picture that overall isn’t there. There simply is no large ground swell of support for the Palestinians among the populations of Latin America, which is was the point of your original post. There are some governments which are taking cautious positions one way or the other, but most aren’t taking a stand one way or the other.

It’s disingenuous to take the position that there is significant support for the Palestinians in most Latin American countries. There is not. The fact is most people in those countries do not care one way or the other. They don’t consider it their business, and they think they are both crazy. There is both antisemitism and Islamophobia in many countries in Latin America. And they’ve got their own problems to deal with.

I believe you are reading news, but you are not painting an accurate picture. Though perhaps you are only reading Folha, which could explain the disconnect. If you are solely getting your news from Folha, I could see the gap in information.

You have completely misrepresented everything that I said to create your own talking points. Once again, I said that news media in LA painted a very different picture from US media, which is 100% true. And the fact that the Colombian and Brazilian presidents support a liberated Palestine is a big deal. Why you overlook that is beyond me. It is not news that VZ, Bolivia and Cuba would support this but for Colombia, Brazil and to some extend Ecuador is major news. Most HR orgs in Latin America also support a free Palestine, as there is affinity with their own causes. But you are correct in that most religious right organizations side with US evangelicals in their support for Israel and dislike of Muslims.

And most Hispanic orgs in the US that I work with overwhelmingly support the plight of Palestinians but that is because we work with refugees and immigrants.

Oh. You are conflating your leftist circles and organizations with the population as a whole. Well, that explains your misinformation. I am quite certain that yes, leftist organizations in Latin America support Palestinians, like leftist organizations in many countries. But as in many countries, leftist organizations in Latin America are distanced from the general population. This is a common organizational failure of both left- and right-wing organizations; they surround themselves with like-minded people and convince themselves that they are fully representative.

If you so convinced of the enormous support for the Palestinian cause in Latin America, how do you think the general population would react to sending military support to Palestine? Do you think the general population in, say, Ecuador would be okay with their sons in the Ejército Ecuatoriano dying to support Palestine?

I believe that leftist organizations are loud and you think they are representative but if you believe there is deep and widespread support for the Palestinian cause across Latin America, you are badly deluded.

You have once again conflated everything that I have said. I said that the newspapers in Latin America "do not read like here" and there is far MORE support among Latinos than white folks like yourself who believe in full blown apartheid and genocide. And no, Latin America does not send troops anywhere but they are against colonialism - even Argentina (Hello, Malvinas). I also said that the vast majority of supporters for Palestine were POC, which is still true despite your inability to prove otherwise. And yes, the governments of Latin America are largely more supportive of a free Palestine than the US because they understand what oppression looks like. But sure, I'm going to have some white lady dictate to me what I said about my work with my population in my field of expertise. And then you accuse me of being a leftist. Right on freaking queue. White ladies know above everyone else? Have you sucked enough air out of the room yet?

When you start lashing out with race-based misogyny, you know you’ve lost the argument. I did find it interesting how you assumed my gender and race, even though you know I consume Latin American news. Going to identity-based attempted insults (which don’t work for me because unlike you, I don’t consider “white lady” an epithet) means you’ve lost the argument.

Anyhow, you’re just coming across as ignorant at this point, and you’re angry that your lies have been caught out. I don’t need to spend further time dismantling an irrational person. Have a good day and try having an actual conversation in Spanish with someone who isn’t in your NGO some day.

Um, I do this with my family and friends LITERALLY every single day. What does your family tell you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You can’t fight a guérilla war with normal tactic and expect to win. There are going to be civilian casualties. That’s part of why war is awful. The whole idea that there are « rules » for war is so naive. War is war. The only thing that matters is who wins. In this case it is my best interest for Israel to win. If I have to choose between Israeli civilians or Palestinian civilians, I’m choosing the Israelis because they are the people least likely to want to kill me and destroy what America is and stands for. Easy choice.

Bingo. I've read several pages and I have no idea what people are talking about. Have they never taken an international relations class? There are no such thing as international laws, standards, etc when it comes to war. We can argue whether there should be and what those should look like, but no one else cares.

I have a degree in international relations and one of the very first things I learned was that there are laws of war, and in particular laws governing the treatment of civilians in wartime. See the Geneva Conventions of 1949. Civilized states are expected to comport with the Geneva Conventions. This is the legal basis on which we condemn rogue state actors, like Russia, for its treatment of civilians in Ukraine (see Bucha, Mariupol, etc.). If you don't know about this and are asking if others have taken an IR class, you have zero credibility.

800 lawyers have signed a petition citing violations of the Geneva convention. The US hasn't just lost the moral ground, it has lost any argument for a "Rules based world order" or "Western values". People don't seen to understand what a paradigm shift this is for US International Relations.

Big think, “paradigm shift.”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What I am hearing from other news sources is that investigating a bombing takes time
Too soon to say conclusively what happened with the hospital bombing

Right. Which is why all the people here in DCUM and also more broadly who immediately condemned the bombing as an Israeli strike with 500+ dead should be criticized for spreading misinformation.

The US government said their analysis strongly suggests it was not Israeli.

Oh, that definitely settles it! The US government is not in bed with Israel at all so they have no reason to lie. American news sources were the ones originally reporting Israel bombed the hospital including the NYtimes but don’t believe them. They are all arms of Hamas propoganda and anti Semites so they’re not credible

I know Israel’s opponents desperately, achingly want to pin this on Israel. Sorry.

Israel’s opponents didn’t pin this on Israel. Israel’s government pinned it on Israel and caused this to go viral in the first place by reporting their own atrocity .

Israel’s been caught in many different deceptive tactics and lies all week and we haven’t hit Friday yet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can’t fight a guérilla war with normal tactic and expect to win. There are going to be civilian casualties. That’s part of why war is awful. The whole idea that there are « rules » for war is so naive. War is war. The only thing that matters is who wins. In this case it is my best interest for Israel to win. If I have to choose between Israeli civilians or Palestinian civilians, I’m choosing the Israelis because they are the people least likely to want to kill me and destroy what America is and stands for. Easy choice.

Bingo. I've read several pages and I have no idea what people are talking about. Have they never taken an international relations class? There are no such thing as international laws, standards, etc when it comes to war. We can argue whether there should be and what those should look like, but no one else cares.

I have a degree in international relations and one of the very first things I learned was that there are laws of war, and in particular laws governing the treatment of civilians in wartime. See the Geneva Conventions of 1949. Civilized states are expected to comport with the Geneva Conventions. This is the legal basis on which we condemn rogue state actors, like Russia, for its treatment of civilians in Ukraine (see Bucha, Mariupol, etc.). If you don't know about this and are asking if others have taken an IR class, you have zero credibility.

Ohh the rogue states are condemned and…..with no ability to enforce it is meaningless. I have an IR degree too and yet I’m also a realist. There’s what should be, I.e the Geneva convention and there’s how things really work and in the end, war crimes only matter if one loses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can’t fight a guérilla war with normal tactic and expect to win. There are going to be civilian casualties. That’s part of why war is awful. The whole idea that there are « rules » for war is so naive. War is war. The only thing that matters is who wins. In this case it is my best interest for Israel to win. If I have to choose between Israeli civilians or Palestinian civilians, I’m choosing the Israelis because they are the people least likely to want to kill me and destroy what America is and stands for. Easy choice.

Bingo. I've read several pages and I have no idea what people are talking about. Have they never taken an international relations class? There are no such thing as international laws, standards, etc when it comes to war. We can argue whether there should be and what those should look like, but no one else cares.

I have a degree in international relations and one of the very first things I learned was that there are laws of war, and in particular laws governing the treatment of civilians in wartime. See the Geneva Conventions of 1949. Civilized states are expected to comport with the Geneva Conventions. This is the legal basis on which we condemn rogue state actors, like Russia, for its treatment of civilians in Ukraine (see Bucha, Mariupol, etc.). If you don't know about this and are asking if others have taken an IR class, you have zero credibility.

Ask our allies about Yemeni civilians about laws of war and US allies. We condemn countries that we view as competitors and look away when allies kill civilians. International laws and war crimes are for African stats without international clout (just look at the ICC docket). Powerful countries or countries with powerful allies are free to disregard

+1. Also, lest we forget, Hamas is an islamofascist terrorist organization (!!!!). Who would be more likely to hit a single hospital? This would be over by now if Israel wasn't trying to comport itself within the parameters of international wartime law.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:no one here supports Hamas - stop these ridiculous claims. We support the INNOCENTS being killed, staved and deprived of basic human rights.

the root of the issue here is that Israel believes the invisible dude in the sky said that they can have the land Palastine currently occupi(ed). You can't convince them otherwise and they have justified their horrific treatment and war crimes against Palestinians because of this.

Biden is complicit in this horror and is going to pay at the polls.

No, you only support certain INNOCENTS. Non Jewish ones.

DP. I support all innocents. But unlike the Israeli government and many posters on this thread, I don't believe Jewish (Israeli) innocents are worth more than Palestinian innocents. The Israeli government's war crimes against civilians in Gaza over the past 10 days indicate that they do think this.

Point to posters who are saying Jewish lives are worth more.

The actions of the Israeli government clearly indicate that it thinks Jewish lives are worth more. It is defending its war crimes against civilians (killing and starving them) in Gaza by claiming its actions are "self-defense" for the Hamas terrorist attack that killed 1,500 Israelis and that it is trying to recover the ~200 hostages that were taken by Hamas. It has killed, injured, and destroyed the lives of way more than 1,500 civilians in Gaza, and has no intention of stopping. It keeps citing the 40 babies murdered by Hamas with apparently zero regard or self-awareness to the children it has killed in Gaza. Clearly it thinks Israeli/Jewish lives are worth more. If you support or defend the Israeli government's actions, then yes, I will assume you share this belief.

Under that logic, if I support anything the USA does, it means I support everything the US government does.

That’s such crap logic.

If the U.S. goes on a 10-day campaign of indiscriminately bombing civilians, or committing other war crimes (denying basic supplies necessary to sustain life and blocking humanitarian aid, for example) against civilians in the name of avenging U.S. civilians, and you openly defend it, then it's a completely logical inference that you think those civilians' lives are worth less than those of U.S. civilians. And to preempt the question of whether I protested the U.S.' actions in the Middle East, yes, I did.

You are devoid of the ability for any sort of nuanced argument.

You say people can support the Palestinians but not Hamas, but if anyone says they support Israel’s right to defend itself, suddenly it means they support everything Israel does and everything Bibi has ever said.

What a crock.

That's not what I said, and if you genuinely believe that, you're actually the one who's missing the nuance. Israel may have a right to defend itself, but its actions in Gaza over the past 10 days have far surpassed anything that is permissible under the concept of proportionality, which is a cornerstone of the right of self defense. You can support Israel's right to self defense and also understand that committing war crimes against civilians in Gaza is unacceptable. If you consider the war crimes to be a reasonable and acceptable part of Israel's "self-defense", then you are supporting abominable war crimes and it is a logical inference to say that you value innocent Israeli lives above innocent Palestinian lives.

Your claim that I said or implied that "if anyone says they support Israel’s right to defend itself, suddenly it means they support everything Israel does and everything Bibi has ever said" is the extreme logical leap here.

Question: what do you think would have been the proportionate response to Hamas’s attack?

Targeted assassinations of Hamas leadership. Increased pressure, both publicly and behind the scenes, on countries that support and provide assistance to Hamas. A military response that doesn't involve starving civilians or annihilation of the Gaza strip with zero regard to civilians, i.e., a special forces operation given that Gaza City is densely populated with civilians, or a limited bombing campaign that absolutely does not involve targeting southern Gaza (which the IDF is doing) and allows humanitarian aid in. Unfortunately all armed conflict involves collateral damage to civilians. That's not impermissible under the concept of self-defense. But what Israel is doing to civilians in Gaza goes far beyond that.

No it doesn’t. But hey, support for “Targeted assassinations ….”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can’t fight a guérilla war with normal tactic and expect to win. There are going to be civilian casualties. That’s part of why war is awful. The whole idea that there are « rules » for war is so naive. War is war. The only thing that matters is who wins. In this case it is my best interest for Israel to win. If I have to choose between Israeli civilians or Palestinian civilians, I’m choosing the Israelis because they are the people least likely to want to kill me and destroy what America is and stands for. Easy choice.

Bingo. I've read several pages and I have no idea what people are talking about. Have they never taken an international relations class? There are no such thing as international laws, standards, etc when it comes to war. We can argue whether there should be and what those should look like, but no one else cares.

I have a degree in international relations and one of the very first things I learned was that there are laws of war, and in particular laws governing the treatment of civilians in wartime. See the Geneva Conventions of 1949. Civilized states are expected to comport with the Geneva Conventions. This is the legal basis on which we condemn rogue state actors, like Russia, for its treatment of civilians in Ukraine (see Bucha, Mariupol, etc.). If you don't know about this and are asking if others have taken an IR class, you have zero credibility.

Ask our allies about Yemeni civilians about laws of war and US allies. We condemn countries that we view as competitors and look away when allies kill civilians. International laws and war crimes are for African stats without international clout (just look at the ICC docket). Powerful countries or countries with powerful allies are free to disregard

Of course the U.S. has violated the laws of war. I don’t think it’s any better when we do it. I think we should stop doing it ourselves and decline to provide a public show of support and a blank check to countries (currently, Israel) who do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I am hearing from other news sources is that investigating a bombing takes time
Too soon to say conclusively what happened with the hospital bombing

Right. Which is why all the people here in DCUM and also more broadly who immediately condemned the bombing as an Israeli strike with 500+ dead should be criticized for spreading misinformation.

The US government said their analysis strongly suggests it was not Israeli.

Oh, that definitely settles it! The US government is not in bed with Israel at all so they have no reason to lie. American news sources were the ones originally reporting Israel bombed the hospital including the NYtimes but don’t believe them. They are all arms of Hamas propoganda and anti Semites so they’re not credible

I know Israel’s opponents desperately, achingly want to pin this on Israel. Sorry.

Israel’s opponents didn’t pin this on Israel. Israel’s government pinned it on Israel and caused this to go viral in the first place by reporting their own atrocity .

Israel’s been caught in many different deceptive tactics and lies all week and we haven’t hit Friday yet

No, sorry, wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can’t fight a guérilla war with normal tactic and expect to win. There are going to be civilian casualties. That’s part of why war is awful. The whole idea that there are « rules » for war is so naive. War is war. The only thing that matters is who wins. In this case it is my best interest for Israel to win. If I have to choose between Israeli civilians or Palestinian civilians, I’m choosing the Israelis because they are the people least likely to want to kill me and destroy what America is and stands for. Easy choice.

Bingo. I've read several pages and I have no idea what people are talking about. Have they never taken an international relations class? There are no such thing as international laws, standards, etc when it comes to war. We can argue whether there should be and what those should look like, but no one else cares.

I have a degree in international relations and one of the very first things I learned was that there are laws of war, and in particular laws governing the treatment of civilians in wartime. See the Geneva Conventions of 1949. Civilized states are expected to comport with the Geneva Conventions. This is the legal basis on which we condemn rogue state actors, like Russia, for its treatment of civilians in Ukraine (see Bucha, Mariupol, etc.). If you don't know about this and are asking if others have taken an IR class, you have zero credibility.

Ask our allies about Yemeni civilians about laws of war and US allies. We condemn countries that we view as competitors and look away when allies kill civilians. International laws and war crimes are for African stats without international clout (just look at the ICC docket). Powerful countries or countries with powerful allies are free to disregard

Of course the U.S. has violated the laws of war. I don’t think it’s any better when we do it. I think we should stop doing it ourselves and decline to provide a public show of support and a blank check to countries (currently, Israel) who do it.

Most Americans think Israel is killing terrorists. Once the house gets a speaker, one of the first actions will a resolution supporting Israel and a resolution condemning Talib. Israel could wipeout an orphanage and say there was a Hamas member in the cafeteria and US politicians would race to congratulate Israel for killing them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the uneducated people that dont understand, this issues goes back a long time when the land was stolen. Below is from the UN (https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/#Origins_and_Evolution_of_the_Palestine_Problem_1917-1947_Part_I):

The question of Palestine was brought before the United Nations shortly after the end of the Second World War.

The origins of the Palestine problem as an international issue, however, lie in events occurring towards the end of the First World War. These events led to a League of Nations decision to place Palestine under the administration of Great Britain as the Mandatory Power under the Mandates System adopted by the League. In principle, the Mandate was meant to be in the nature of a transitory phase until Palestine attained the status of a fully independent nation, a status provisionally recognized in the League’s Covenant, but in fact the Mandate’s historical evolution did not result in the emergence of Palestine as an independent nation.

The decision on the Mandate did not take into account the wishes of the people of Palestine, despite the Covenant’s requirements that “the wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory”. This assumed special significance because, almost five years before receiving the mandate from the League of Nations, the British Government had given commitments to the Zionist Organization regarding the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, for which Zionist leaders had pressed a claim of “historical connection” since their ancestors had lived in Palestine two thousand years earlier before dispersing in the “Diaspora”.

During the period of the Mandate, the Zionist Organization worked to secure the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. The indigenous people of Palestine, whose forefathers had inhabited the land for virtually the two preceding millennia felt this design to be a violation of their natural and inalienable rights. They also viewed it as an infringement of assurances of independence given by the Allied Powers to Arab leaders in return for their support during the war. The result was mounting resistance to the Mandate by Palestinian Arabs, followed by resort to violence by the Jewish community as the Second World War drew to a close.

After a quarter of a century of the Mandate, Great Britain submitted what had become “the Palestine problem” to the United Nations on the ground that the Mandatory Power was faced with conflicting obligations that had proved irreconcilable. At this point, when the United Nations itself was hardly two years old, violence ravaged Palestine. After investigating various alternatives the United Nations proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized. The partition plan did not bring peace to Palestine, and the prevailing violence spread into a Middle East war halted only by United Nations action. One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel and, in a series of successive wars, its territorial control expanded to occupy all of Palestine. The Palestinian Arab State envisaged in the partition plan never appeared on the world’s map and, over the following 30 years, the Palestinian people have struggled for their lost rights.

The Palestine problem quickly widened into the Middle East dispute between the Arab States and Israel. From 1948 there have been wars and destruction, forcing millions of Palestinians into exile, and engaging the United Nations in a continuing search for a solution to a problem which came to possess the potential of a major source of danger for world peace.

In the course of this search, a large majority of States Members of the United Nations have recognized that the Palestine issue continues to lie at the heart of the Middle East problem, the most serious threat to peace with which the United Nations must contend. Recognition is spreading in world opinion that the Palestinian people must be assured its inherent inalienable right of national self-determination for peace to be restored.

In 1947 the United Nations accepted the responsibility of finding a just solution for the Palestine issue, and still grapples with this task today. Decades of strife and politico-legal arguments have clouded the basic issues and have obscured the origins and evolution of the Palestine problem, which this study attempts to clarify.

So much clowning with religion

[Anonymous]

Why weren’t there multiple successive blasts in the hospital? Isn’t that where Hamas stockpiles rockets and explosives underground in the “tunnels”?

It’s very obvious the majority of Hamas is not in the Gaza Strip but in Lebanon relaxing . IDF couldn’t handle the Lebanese border incursion, ran, bombed Reuters in Lebanon out of anger and frustration , and now are back to doing the only thing they know best: killing civilians via aerial bombing campaigns. The American troops will Have to figure out Lebanon and with any luck for Israel, suffer plenty of casualties on the ground so that American sentiment can shift back to Israel and Biden will be out of office next year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can’t fight a guérilla war with normal tactic and expect to win. There are going to be civilian casualties. That’s part of why war is awful. The whole idea that there are « rules » for war is so naive. War is war. The only thing that matters is who wins. In this case it is my best interest for Israel to win. If I have to choose between Israeli civilians or Palestinian civilians, I’m choosing the Israelis because they are the people least likely to want to kill me and destroy what America is and stands for. Easy choice.

Bingo. I've read several pages and I have no idea what people are talking about. Have they never taken an international relations class? There are no such thing as international laws, standards, etc when it comes to war. We can argue whether there should be and what those should look like, but no one else cares.

I have a degree in international relations and one of the very first things I learned was that there are laws of war, and in particular laws governing the treatment of civilians in wartime. See the Geneva Conventions of 1949. Civilized states are expected to comport with the Geneva Conventions. This is the legal basis on which we condemn rogue state actors, like Russia, for its treatment of civilians in Ukraine (see Bucha, Mariupol, etc.). If you don't know about this and are asking if others have taken an IR class, you have zero credibility.

Ask our allies about Yemeni civilians about laws of war and US allies. We condemn countries that we view as competitors and look away when allies kill civilians. International laws and war crimes are for African stats without international clout (just look at the ICC docket). Powerful countries or countries with powerful allies are free to disregard

Of course the U.S. has violated the laws of war. I don’t think it’s any better when we do it. I think we should stop doing it ourselves and decline to provide a public show of support and a blank check to countries (currently, Israel) who do it.

Do you want to play by the « rules »
Or do you want to win? That’s the only question that matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Interesting:
Israel wants to depopulate Gaza, drive everyone out. If that is not true, then let them take refuge in one of Israel’s deserts



What is happening now in Gaza is an attempt to force civilian residents to take refuge and migrate to Egypt, which should not be accepted," Abdul Fattah al-Sisi said.

He warned that were this to happen, the Egyptian people could "go out and protest in their millions".

Cairo has already warned that if Palestinians left their land, it could "liquidate" Palestinian hopes of statehood.

But it would also be very dangerous for the Egyptian government if it was seen as complicit in any such deal – igniting public anger in the Arab world.

Any influx of people would also deepen Egypt’s current economic crisis and raise security fears in its restive Sinai region.

Sisi suggested that as Gaza is in effect under Israeli control, Palestinians could instead be moved to Israel’s Negev desert during its offensive against Hamas "till the militants are dealt with"

You seriously think Israel should open the Negev up to Gazans?!

Do you realize what would happen if they did that?

Tell me please
What will happen if they leave everyone to suffer and die where they are

I can’t believe I have to spell this out.

Hamas fighters will leave in the crowd and begin their attacks again, just like on October 7th.

So they will loose their human shields and you will be able to track down every single one

[Anonymous]

Iconic photo in which the US is the only country to strike down resolution calling for humanitarian corridors, a pause in the fighting and a rescinding of the order by Israel requiring citizens in Gaza to leave the north of the territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can’t fight a guérilla war with normal tactic and expect to win. There are going to be civilian casualties. That’s part of why war is awful. The whole idea that there are « rules » for war is so naive. War is war. The only thing that matters is who wins. In this case it is my best interest for Israel to win. If I have to choose between Israeli civilians or Palestinian civilians, I’m choosing the Israelis because they are the people least likely to want to kill me and destroy what America is and stands for. Easy choice.

Bingo. I've read several pages and I have no idea what people are talking about. Have they never taken an international relations class? There are no such thing as international laws, standards, etc when it comes to war. We can argue whether there should be and what those should look like, but no one else cares.

I have a degree in international relations and one of the very first things I learned was that there are laws of war, and in particular laws governing the treatment of civilians in wartime. See the Geneva Conventions of 1949. Civilized states are expected to comport with the Geneva Conventions. This is the legal basis on which we condemn rogue state actors, like Russia, for its treatment of civilians in Ukraine (see Bucha, Mariupol, etc.). If you don't know about this and are asking if others have taken an IR class, you have zero credibility.

Ask our allies about Yemeni civilians about laws of war and US allies. We condemn countries that we view as competitors and look away when allies kill civilians. International laws and war crimes are for African stats without international clout (just look at the ICC docket). Powerful countries or countries with powerful allies are free to disregard

+1. Also, lest we forget, Hamas is an islamofascist terrorist organization (!!!!). Who would be more likely to hit a single hospital? This would be over by now if Israel wasn't trying to comport itself within the parameters of international wartime law.

Israel has a long history of war crimes in Gaza. Targeting a hospital is not out of character—even before last week’s attack. Whether it was an Israeli drone or Israeli rocket or Israeli missile is not the most salient detail in this massacre.