Queen Elizabeth II

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

Same. They don't even look like a couple.

I think Kate looks clearly angry at Meghan's presence. She avoids even looking in her direction.

Then why is she ignoring her own husband?

Would you all quick bickering? You are derailing the thread.

We should all just back to the main topic of the thread instead of re-hashing this William, Kate and Meghan nonsense.
Does anyone know if / when they will release the cause and time of death? I am far more fascinated in the timeline than any banal discussion about who wore what.

Lady, we already know the cause of death. SHE WAS OLD AS F*CK.

OMG please be my friend. I cannot BELIEVE how many times people keep yammering on about “but…but what was her cause of death?”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

There is love. It’s just tradition with his position.

Tradition is showing up with your spouse. William went to the Queen’s death bed alone, watched the proclamation of Charles as King alone and attended the accession council alone. Now they show up looking more like distanct cousins, and not the married kind, than attentive partners.

It is what it is.

There is no such tradition, however people with high EQ don’t show up at the death bed of a great grandmother in law. They allow a handful of the closest family to be there.

Sophie was there though.

Question how much time do you think Kate and the kids spent with the queen? Actually with the queen and interacting with her? She did not do it with Charles.

kate has known queen for more than two decades.

Since she was a teen fresher at St Andrew’s.

She had a crush on William since she was 9 and a young William turned her head when his team played a hockey match at her school.

And?? I’m their age and I had a crush on William as did most other girls that had eyes. He was darling!

Serious? He’s been homely ever since he was a preteen. Young 20s military Harry, however, was hot as hell.

Not at all. He was an extremely handsome teen and young man. Not so much now in middle age....

I actually quite like his look now. He has a very definite "look" of a British aristocrat. You may like it or not, but it's a look He looks distinguished.

I think Harry always had a slightly disheveled look about him.

+1

That bald pate with the fringe is unattractive. Period.

Harry’s “disheveled” look means “not trying too hard,” unlike that hilariously overquaffed, hands-in-pockets, Jordache-ad-looking photo being posted here to assert that William was attractive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

Same. They don't even look like a couple.

I think Kate looks clearly angry at Meghan's presence. She avoids even looking in her direction.

Then why is she ignoring her own husband?

Would you all quick bickering? You are derailing the thread.

We should all just back to the main topic of the thread instead of re-hashing this William, Kate and Meghan nonsense.
Does anyone know if / when they will release the cause and time of death? I am far more fascinated in the timeline than any banal discussion about who wore what.

Cause of death was being 96.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on when the family began arriving, I think she died overnight or in the morning about 8 or 9 am Eastern. I was on a call with London and they said the BRF was heading to Scotland. This news was on the radio in London. Plus, the BBC slipped up and announced it and then took it back—and we saw the broadcasters already had the requisite black ties on.

Most massive strokes occur in the early morning hours about an hour before the person would normally wake up. She was probably found non responsive and died several hours later.

I've been thinking this was a massive stroke as well.

Why would you think that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The closest I’ve seen to a time of death is that the PM was informed around 4:30 pm, so presumably shortly before then. She had already died by the time William, Andrew, Edward and Sophie arrived.

I saw that only Charles and Anne were there because they were already in Scotland. And the rest were all on the same plane so they all missed it. Sad. Surprising it was so quick at her age and seeming health.

Unless Charles and Anne were there in Wednesday, I doubt they were even there before she died. Probably made up PR to make them look god.

Anne was there and Charles was at Birkhall which is only 10 miles away. Everyone else was in England and missed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

There is love. It’s just tradition with his position.

Tradition is showing up with your spouse. William went to the Queen’s death bed alone, watched the proclamation of Charles as King alone and attended the accession council alone. Now they show up looking more like distanct cousins, and not the married kind, than attentive partners.

It is what it is.

There is no such tradition, however people with high EQ don’t show up at the death bed of a great grandmother in law. They allow a handful of the closest family to be there.

Sophie was there though.

Question how much time do you think Kate and the kids spent with the queen? Actually with the queen and interacting with her? She did not do it with Charles.

kate has known queen for more than two decades.

Since she was a teen fresher at St Andrew’s.

She had a crush on William since she was 9 and a young William turned her head when his team played a hockey match at her school.

And?? I’m their age and I had a crush on William as did most other girls that had eyes. He was darling!

Serious? He’s been homely ever since he was a preteen. Young 20s military Harry, however, was hot as hell.

Not at all. He was an extremely handsome teen and young man. Not so much now in middle age....

I actually quite like his look now. He has a very definite "look" of a British aristocrat. You may like it or not, but it's a look He looks distinguished.

I think Harry always had a slightly disheveled look about him.

+1

That bald pate with the fringe is unattractive. Period.

Harry’s “disheveled” look means “not trying too hard,” unlike that hilariously overquaffed, hands-in-pockets, Jordache-ad-looking photo being posted here to assert that William was attractive.

Yeah, I think people are giving him bonus points because he’s a going to be king. Maybe young Prince William really is some people’s thing just based on looks, but I don’t think he would stand out in a crowd for most.

I do think Harry is the more attractive of the two but I don’t know that he would stand out in a crowd either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

There is love. It’s just tradition with his position.

Tradition is showing up with your spouse. William went to the Queen’s death bed alone, watched the proclamation of Charles as King alone and attended the accession council alone. Now they show up looking more like distanct cousins, and not the married kind, than attentive partners.

It is what it is.

There is no such tradition, however people with high EQ don’t show up at the death bed of a great grandmother in law. They allow a handful of the closest family to be there.

Sophie was there though.

Question how much time do you think Kate and the kids spent with the queen? Actually with the queen and interacting with her? She did not do it with Charles.

kate has known queen for more than two decades.

Since she was a teen fresher at St Andrew’s.

She had a crush on William since she was 9 and a young William turned her head when his team played a hockey match at her school.

And?? I’m their age and I had a crush on William as did most other girls that had eyes. He was darling!

Serious? He’s been homely ever since he was a preteen. Young 20s military Harry, however, was hot as hell.

Not at all. He was an extremely handsome teen and young man. Not so much now in middle age....

I actually quite like his look now. He has a very definite "look" of a British aristocrat. You may like it or not, but it's a look He looks distinguished.

I think Harry always had a slightly disheveled look about him.

+1

That bald pate with the fringe is unattractive. Period.

Harry’s “disheveled” look means “not trying too hard,” unlike that hilariously overquaffed, hands-in-pockets, Jordache-ad-looking photo being posted here to assert that William was attractive.

Yeah, I think people are giving him bonus points because he’s a going to be king. Maybe young Prince William really is some people’s thing just based on looks, but I don’t think he would stand out in a crowd for most.

I do think Harry is the more attractive of the two but I don’t know that he would stand out in a crowd either.

Also Harry is a Beta which is not appealing to some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

There is love. It’s just tradition with his position.

Tradition is showing up with your spouse. William went to the Queen’s death bed alone, watched the proclamation of Charles as King alone and attended the accession council alone. Now they show up looking more like distanct cousins, and not the married kind, than attentive partners.

It is what it is.

There is no such tradition, however people with high EQ don’t show up at the death bed of a great grandmother in law. They allow a handful of the closest family to be there.

Sophie was there though.

Question how much time do you think Kate and the kids spent with the queen? Actually with the queen and interacting with her? She did not do it with Charles.

kate has known queen for more than two decades.

Since she was a teen fresher at St Andrew’s.

She had a crush on William since she was 9 and a young William turned her head when his team played a hockey match at her school.

And?? I’m their age and I had a crush on William as did most other girls that had eyes. He was darling!

Serious? He’s been homely ever since he was a preteen. Young 20s military Harry, however, was hot as hell.

Not at all. He was an extremely handsome teen and young man. Not so much now in middle age....

I actually quite like his look now. He has a very definite "look" of a British aristocrat. You may like it or not, but it's a look He looks distinguished.

I think Harry always had a slightly disheveled look about him.

+1

That bald pate with the fringe is unattractive. Period.

Harry’s “disheveled” look means “not trying too hard,” unlike that hilariously overquaffed, hands-in-pockets, Jordache-ad-looking photo being posted here to assert that William was attractive.

Yeah, I think people are giving him bonus points because he’s a going to be king. Maybe young Prince William really is some people’s thing just based on looks, but I don’t think he would stand out in a crowd for most.

I do think Harry is the more attractive of the two but I don’t know that he would stand out in a crowd either.

Also I think I need to add that I probably am and always was less attractive than both of them, and I would have felt flattered if they pursued me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

There is love. It’s just tradition with his position.

Tradition is showing up with your spouse. William went to the Queen’s death bed alone, watched the proclamation of Charles as King alone and attended the accession council alone. Now they show up looking more like distanct cousins, and not the married kind, than attentive partners.

It is what it is.

There is no such tradition, however people with high EQ don’t show up at the death bed of a great grandmother in law. They allow a handful of the closest family to be there.

Sophie was there though.

Question how much time do you think Kate and the kids spent with the queen? Actually with the queen and interacting with her? She did not do it with Charles.

kate has known queen for more than two decades.

Since she was a teen fresher at St Andrew’s.

She had a crush on William since she was 9 and a young William turned her head when his team played a hockey match at her school.

And?? I’m their age and I had a crush on William as did most other girls that had eyes. He was darling!

Serious? He’s been homely ever since he was a preteen. Young 20s military Harry, however, was hot as hell.

Not at all. He was an extremely handsome teen and young man. Not so much now in middle age....

I actually quite like his look now. He has a very definite "look" of a British aristocrat. You may like it or not, but it's a look He looks distinguished.

I think Harry always had a slightly disheveled look about him.

+1

That bald pate with the fringe is unattractive. Period.

Harry’s “disheveled” look means “not trying too hard,” unlike that hilariously overquaffed, hands-in-pockets, Jordache-ad-looking photo being posted here to assert that William was attractive.

Yeah, I think people are giving him bonus points because he’s a going to be king. Maybe young Prince William really is some people’s thing just based on looks, but I don’t think he would stand out in a crowd for most.

I do think Harry is the more attractive of the two but I don’t know that he would stand out in a crowd either.

Also Harry is a Beta which is not appealing to some.

I dunno. I think that what looks like beta on TV doesn’t always translate to real life. Like Tom Holland. He looks way stronger and has much more swagger when he is in a crowd of normal people. But since most of us are, indeed, looking at Harry on a screen it doesn’t make a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

There is love. It’s just tradition with his position.

Tradition is showing up with your spouse. William went to the Queen’s death bed alone, watched the proclamation of Charles as King alone and attended the accession council alone. Now they show up looking more like distanct cousins, and not the married kind, than attentive partners.

It is what it is.

There is no such tradition, however people with high EQ don’t show up at the death bed of a great grandmother in law. They allow a handful of the closest family to be there.

Sophie was there though.

Question how much time do you think Kate and the kids spent with the queen? Actually with the queen and interacting with her? She did not do it with Charles.

kate has known queen for more than two decades.

Since she was a teen fresher at St Andrew’s.

She had a crush on William since she was 9 and a young William turned her head when his team played a hockey match at her school.

And?? I’m their age and I had a crush on William as did most other girls that had eyes. He was darling!

Serious? He’s been homely ever since he was a preteen. Young 20s military Harry, however, was hot as hell.

Not at all. He was an extremely handsome teen and young man. Not so much now in middle age....

I actually quite like his look now. He has a very definite "look" of a British aristocrat. You may like it or not, but it's a look He looks distinguished.

I think Harry always had a slightly disheveled look about him.

+1

That bald pate with the fringe is unattractive. Period.

Harry’s “disheveled” look means “not trying too hard,” unlike that hilariously overquaffed, hands-in-pockets, Jordache-ad-looking photo being posted here to assert that William was attractive.

Yeah, I think people are giving him bonus points because he’s a going to be king. Maybe young Prince William really is some people’s thing just based on looks, but I don’t think he would stand out in a crowd for most.

I do think Harry is the more attractive of the two but I don’t know that he would stand out in a crowd either.

Also Harry is a Beta which is not appealing to some.

I dunno. I think that what looks like beta on TV doesn’t always translate to real life. Like Tom Holland. He looks way stronger and has much more swagger when he is in a crowd of normal people. But since most of us are, indeed, looking at Harry on a screen it doesn’t make a difference.

I’m not saying he “looks” beta. I’m saying he meets the definition of being a beta male in his relationships. And he just comes off as really pouty and whiny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

There is love. It’s just tradition with his position.

Tradition is showing up with your spouse. William went to the Queen’s death bed alone, watched the proclamation of Charles as King alone and attended the accession council alone. Now they show up looking more like distanct cousins, and not the married kind, than attentive partners.

It is what it is.

There is no such tradition, however people with high EQ don’t show up at the death bed of a great grandmother in law. They allow a handful of the closest family to be there.

Sophie was there though.

Question how much time do you think Kate and the kids spent with the queen? Actually with the queen and interacting with her? She did not do it with Charles.

kate has known queen for more than two decades.

Since she was a teen fresher at St Andrew’s.

She had a crush on William since she was 9 and a young William turned her head when his team played a hockey match at her school.

And?? I’m their age and I had a crush on William as did most other girls that had eyes. He was darling!

Serious? He’s been homely ever since he was a preteen. Young 20s military Harry, however, was hot as hell.

Not at all. He was an extremely handsome teen and young man. Not so much now in middle age....

I actually quite like his look now. He has a very definite "look" of a British aristocrat. You may like it or not, but it's a look He looks distinguished.

I think Harry always had a slightly disheveled look about him.

+1

That bald pate with the fringe is unattractive. Period.

Harry’s “disheveled” look means “not trying too hard,” unlike that hilariously overquaffed, hands-in-pockets, Jordache-ad-looking photo being posted here to assert that William was attractive.

Yeah, I think people are giving him bonus points because he’s a going to be king. Maybe young Prince William really is some people’s thing just based on looks, but I don’t think he would stand out in a crowd for most.

I do think Harry is the more attractive of the two but I don’t know that he would stand out in a crowd either.

William was a major heartthrob in his teens early 20s, that’s well documented. He is a tall and built guy, still attractive compared to most man his age, even though the lack of hair is a turn off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

There is love. It’s just tradition with his position.

Tradition is showing up with your spouse. William went to the Queen’s death bed alone, watched the proclamation of Charles as King alone and attended the accession council alone. Now they show up looking more like distanct cousins, and not the married kind, than attentive partners.

It is what it is.

There is no such tradition, however people with high EQ don’t show up at the death bed of a great grandmother in law. They allow a handful of the closest family to be there.

Sophie was there though.

Question how much time do you think Kate and the kids spent with the queen? Actually with the queen and interacting with her? She did not do it with Charles.

kate has known queen for more than two decades.

Since she was a teen fresher at St Andrew’s.

She had a crush on William since she was 9 and a young William turned her head when his team played a hockey match at her school.

And?? I’m their age and I had a crush on William as did most other girls that had eyes. He was darling!

Serious? He’s been homely ever since he was a preteen. Young 20s military Harry, however, was hot as hell.

Not at all. He was an extremely handsome teen and young man. Not so much now in middle age....

I actually quite like his look now. He has a very definite "look" of a British aristocrat. You may like it or not, but it's a look He looks distinguished.

I think Harry always had a slightly disheveled look about him.

+1

That bald pate with the fringe is unattractive. Period.

Harry’s “disheveled” look means “not trying too hard,” unlike that hilariously overquaffed, hands-in-pockets, Jordache-ad-looking photo being posted here to assert that William was attractive.

Yeah, I think people are giving him bonus points because he’s a going to be king. Maybe young Prince William really is some people’s thing just based on looks, but I don’t think he would stand out in a crowd for most.

I do think Harry is the more attractive of the two but I don’t know that he would stand out in a crowd either.

Also Harry is a Beta which is not appealing to some.

I dunno. I think that what looks like beta on TV doesn’t always translate to real life. Like Tom Holland. He looks way stronger and has much more swagger when he is in a crowd of normal people. But since most of us are, indeed, looking at Harry on a screen it doesn’t make a difference.

DP. I find him effeminate. It’s not even his physique per se but his mannerisms and energy.

[Anonymous]

Harry is a vet who has seen active duty. He’s a legitimate badass. He’s got nothing to prove re. his masculinity.

My FIL is kind of the same. The guy was a green beret who served two tours in Vietnam. He has a 3rd degree black belt and only quit sparring when he was 72. He appears to be Mr. Rogers to most people, if Mr. Rogers sold commercial real estate. He had nothing to prove to anyone. The need to strut is more beta than anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A cold war has ended?

The Cambridges and Sussexs came in the same car. OMG.

Wow, that was awesome! Thanks for posting that. Things do change.

What’s most noteworthy to me in this video is the coolness between William and Kate. There does not appear to be any love between them.

There is love. It’s just tradition with his position.

Tradition is showing up with your spouse. William went to the Queen’s death bed alone, watched the proclamation of Charles as King alone and attended the accession council alone. Now they show up looking more like distanct cousins, and not the married kind, than attentive partners.

It is what it is.

There is no such tradition, however people with high EQ don’t show up at the death bed of a great grandmother in law. They allow a handful of the closest family to be there.

Sophie was there though.

Question how much time do you think Kate and the kids spent with the queen? Actually with the queen and interacting with her? She did not do it with Charles.

kate has known queen for more than two decades.

Since she was a teen fresher at St Andrew’s.

She had a crush on William since she was 9 and a young William turned her head when his team played a hockey match at her school.

And?? I’m their age and I had a crush on William as did most other girls that had eyes. He was darling!

Serious? He’s been homely ever since he was a preteen. Young 20s military Harry, however, was hot as hell.

Wrong, there was a period when he was in college when he was hot.

He looks so much like Diana here. Even the dropped chin and the gaze, the way he’s posed with his upper body. But of course his bone structure, height, and hair. This is pure Diana.

I wonder how much people may have imposed their memory of her charisma on William at this point. It’s clear now that his personality is much more like his father (and yet somehow even less fun?). Harry got Diana’s emotionality. I’m sure some of this is imposed by expectations— being the heir versus being the spare. But with royals, personality goes a long way in terms of attractiveness. I think William had some Diana glow when he was younger, whether real or assumed because of the resemblance, and that’s faded with time to make him significantly less attractive as a public figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harry is a vet who has seen active duty. He’s a legitimate badass. He’s got nothing to prove re. his masculinity.

My FIL is kind of the same. The guy was a green beret who served two tours in Vietnam. He has a 3rd degree black belt and only quit sparring when he was 72. He appears to be Mr. Rogers to most people, if Mr. Rogers sold commercial real estate. He had nothing to prove to anyone. The need to strut is more beta than anything.

[phone]

Harry’s whining may not be appealing but I’m not sure I’d classify it as beta. He at least seems like a warmer person, whiny or not. I would classify William as cold and distant seeming.