Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Folks, the Pentagon backs up Israel’s claim it didn’t strike the hospital. I’m not sure why people wouldn’t believe the govt experts—sounds kind of Trumpy.

Why miss a chance to bash Israel?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can you someone explain to me Israelis bulldozing Palestinian homes? What is the criteria for doing this? Punishing an entire family for one person’s actions sounds like the antithesis of democracy to me. When an Israeli Jew commits a crime, does the government also bulldoze their family home?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/29/israel-palestine-violence-west-bank/

The settlers are crazy. Most Israelis hate them.

The settlers are not crazy - that's what Israelis say to deflect from the fact that this is a territory expansion scheme - it's Israel's version of Manifest Destiny - one plat at a time. The settlers are supported by Israel's Prime Minister Bibi who promised during his most recent election campaign to annex the West Bank so Israelis could build ADDITIONAL homes on Palestinan land. Pro-Israel folks know the Israeli government has don't nothing to stop the outright theft of Palestinian land or the killing of innocent, unarmed West Bank civilians.

It's definitely a territory expansion scheme, but many of the settlers are nutters.

An outcome with both Hamas and the settlement scheme gone would be positive.

100%. We were close after the Oslo Accords. Now I'm afraid we may never get there without more suffering on both sides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Folks, the Pentagon backs up Israel’s claim it didn’t strike the hospital. I’m not sure why people wouldn’t believe the govt experts—sounds kind of Trumpy.

+1
someone should release some irrefutable proof though - that would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t any overwhelming support for Palestinians even among the Arab countries in the region.

Yet, for some reason, these leaders feel the need to believe Hamas' story about the hospital, despite evidence that it is propaganda and pure lies.
Why might that be?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s been interesting watching the increasingly frantic anti-Israeli poster get more and more outlandish as the facts get clearer and clearer. I imagine she knows the truth but really wants Israel to have bombed a hospital. It should be good news that they didn’t, but that would cause the frantic PP to have to examine her biases and I imagine that is too hard to contemplate for her.

I know this much. I’m not going to believe any claims of mass casualties at this point absent extensive evidence. Hamas boasted about all their murders in their own Telegram, and there is independent corroboration, so I believe the initial Hamas attack happened. But it’s pretty clear now that this hospital attack was nothing like originally claimed, and mainstream media essentially uncritically promoted what turns out to have been Hamas propaganda.

I am not going to believe any of it any more unless there is a lot more proof.

You dont believe a hospital bombing in a completely devastated civilian warzone would have mass casualties?

This is the tipping point.

You only care about yours - it’s complete lack of empaty and humanity that is showing the true colors of Israel.

I’ve had enough.

I’m not Jewish or Israeli and in fact in the past have mostly been sympathetic to Palestinians. What I am interested in are facts, and there is extensive drone video of the actual hospital now. We can see it.

I know you are desperately hoping for mass casualties because of an Israeli bomb, and your hysteria is very visible from your posts, but I have no interest in your fantasy world when hard evidence exists.

This is the sick part--the Palestinian/Hamas shills on this site are GLAD that the hospital was struck, b/c it creates a propaganda opportunities for them.

They want to inflame the situation, incite more terror attacks against Israel (and possibly the US), and destabilize the ME.

They don't care that the result would be tens or hundreds of thousands of additional civilian deaths.

This has been the terrorist playbook for the last 50 years.

That's why they're so insistent that Israel struck the hospital--b/c it's the only narrative that serves their violent goals.

That's exactly it -

1. a rocket goes off course in Gaza
2. it lands in a parking lot next to a hospital
3. that becomes 3a.) THEY BOMBED A HOSPITAL and 3b.) IT WAS THE IDF
4. "bombed a hospital" becomes "THE HOSPITAL WAS LEVELED, COMPLETELY DESTROYED!!!"
5. "hospital destroyed becomes" "500 DEAD!!!!"
6. "500 dead and a hospital destroyed" becomes "THE IDF USED A US JDAM AND DELIBERATELY TARGETED A HOSPITAL!!!!"
7. THE US AND IDF MURDERED 500 PEOPLE IN A HOSPITAL!
8. RIOT IN THE STREETS!!!! STORM THE EMBASSIES!!!

Yet the next morning we learn that the rocket a.) was a typical Gazan rocket, which went off course and landed in a parking lot, and didn't even damage the awnings on the building, let alone destroy it

How shameful. The Hamas spin machine is completely out of control and will get innocent people killed.

You've already killed thousands of innocent people. Stop feigning empathy for human life now.

Israel bombed the hospital just like they told the hospital staff and doctors that they would.

They were given repeated warnings to evacuate.

and there we have it. Stop pretending. Pro-Apartheid folks believe that if you tell someone before you kill them its fine. Because hospitals are easy to evacuate? So if I tell you before I bomb your house, we're cool, right?

Hamas figured how to massacre Israelis. They could have figured out how to help their fellow Palestinians evacuate. It’s not like they didn’t know what was going to happen.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They don’t care about anyone, including Palestinian civilians. Some of us expect the Israeli government, which is an established state and a beneficiary of massive U.S. foreign and military aid, to behave better and with more respect for innocent life than a literal terrorist organization.

The hospital you mean? Hamas bombed it.

Hamas - the designated terrorist organization.

Appears quite possible one of their make-shift “Qassam” terror rockets misfired - I will grant you that. So it does not appear intentional.

But how disgusting that people are trying to blame this on Israel!

No, I actually am not referring to the hospital. You are reading something into my post that I didn’t say and didn’t imply. I waited for credible independent verification on the hospital issue, and I’m inclined to believe U.S. intelligence if it’s indeed certain that it wasn’t Israel.

Israel has been committing war crimes in Gaza since the first day of its bombing campaign. It’s been bombing civilians, including in southern Gaza, where it told civilians to evacuate, has bombed schools and other medical facilities, and has denied the civilians of Gaza (who cannot leave) access to food, water, power, and sanitation, and humanitarian aid that Egypt is offering to let through. Those are war crimes. Israel has killed far more children (and adults) than Hamas killed in its terrorist attack.

Gotta remember that it’s also a war crime to situate weapons in, on, under, or in near proximity to, places like mosques, etc. Try not to be so one-sided, please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When our own members of Congress promote what now appears to be Hamas disinformation, it is difficult to convince Arab countries and Arab leaders that Israel did not have the responsibility in this explosion.

They should both be criminally prosecuted for material support to a terrorist organization, and then expelled from congress.

I'm a democrat and it's pretty gross behavior. Not bc it's anti israel (i get that) but bc if it's not confirmed by any reputable outlet then they should not be spreading disinformation. straight from the trump playbook.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Such guilt and self-hate, and such contrarianism, that privileged white Americans are siding with terrorist organizations supported by the likes of Russia, Iran and North Korea. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads of their ass-s and deal with reality.

Such continued racism and hate for Arabs and POC that privileged white Americans are siding with a terrorist state that supports apartheid and genocide of over 2 million people, while oppressing other religious minorities under a fascist state. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads out of their ass-s and deal with reality.

The right wing, fanatical, neo-fascist hate came from Hamas.

Ah yes, I keep forgetting how fairly Israel has treated Arabs and Muslims in the past. Like citizens with equal rights.
There's a reason that former colonies, oppressed countries and formerly enslaved people across the globe are for a Free Palestine. This struggle has played out before.

Israel does treat Israeli Arabs and Muslims as citizens with equal rights.
And you're wrong about who supports a free Palestine. It's largely privileged white westerners who hate themselves so much that they want to live under a caliphate.
Are you really blind to the fact that countries like India are vehemently pro Israel, while white Britons are in the streets screaming about gassing Jews?

You are clearly white. I read a lot of news from Latin America and the newspapers do not read like here. And the VAST majority of supporters of Palestinian rights are Arabs, Muslims, and POC - not white folks. IF there were more white people, the needle may move in favor but it has not. I don't think you know much about the movement at all. Question, do you have an Arab or Muslim friends? Friends with any latinos?

And yes, India has long been anti-Muslim. I mean, Modi. Come on. It's also why so many Indians voted Trump. Or did you not know there was an India-Pakistan rift?

DP. I follow Latin American news in Spanish and I disagree with your characterization entirely. There is simply not this universal support for Palestinians in Latin America that you are implying. In fact there is a great deal of distrust because of historic religious tension. Of course there is distrust of Israel too. But your characterization here is both inaccurate and misleading.

there is nothing misleading about the statement. I said that the "newspapers do not read like here", which is 100% on point. Folha de São Paulo has given far more even handed reporting than anything in US media. There were fights in the Brazilian parliament yesterday over the hospital bombings, and Lula has long been a supporter of Palestinian rights. Of course, Argentina is very pro-Israel because of the large Jewish population but other countries have been in firm Palestinian camps. You must not read enough because Colombia has now threatened to eject all Israeli diplomats, with Ecuador looking to condemn the same. VZ is clearly not a fan of Israel and Bolivia has followed suit.

I have no idea what you are reading in Latin America but you clearly aren't up to speed.

You are cherry-picking individual pieces of news to paint a picture that overall isn’t there. There simply is no large ground swell of support for the Palestinians among the populations of Latin America, which is was the point of your original post. There are some governments which are taking cautious positions one way or the other, but most aren’t taking a stand one way or the other.

It’s disingenuous to take the position that there is significant support for the Palestinians in most Latin American countries. There is not. The fact is most people in those countries do not care one way or the other. They don’t consider it their business, and they think they are both crazy. There is both antisemitism and Islamophobia in many countries in Latin America. And they’ve got their own problems to deal with.

I believe you are reading news, but you are not painting an accurate picture. Though perhaps you are only reading Folha, which could explain the disconnect. If you are solely getting your news from Folha, I could see the gap in information.

You have completely misrepresented everything that I said to create your own talking points. Once again, I said that news media in LA painted a very different picture from US media, which is 100% true. And the fact that the Colombian and Brazilian presidents support a liberated Palestine is a big deal. Why you overlook that is beyond me. It is not news that VZ, Bolivia and Cuba would support this but for Colombia, Brazil and to some extend Ecuador is major news. Most HR orgs in Latin America also support a free Palestine, as there is affinity with their own causes. But you are correct in that most religious right organizations side with US evangelicals in their support for Israel and dislike of Muslims.

And most Hispanic orgs in the US that I work with overwhelmingly support the plight of Palestinians but that is because we work with refugees and immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It’s been interesting watching the increasingly frantic anti-Israeli poster get more and more outlandish as the facts get clearer and clearer. I imagine she knows the truth but really wants Israel to have bombed a hospital. It should be good news that they didn’t, but that would cause the frantic PP to have to examine her biases and I imagine that is too hard to contemplate for her.

I know this much. I’m not going to believe any claims of mass casualties at this point absent extensive evidence. Hamas boasted about all their murders in their own Telegram, and there is independent corroboration, so I believe the initial Hamas attack happened. But it’s pretty clear now that this hospital attack was nothing like originally claimed, and mainstream media essentially uncritically promoted what turns out to have been Hamas propaganda.

I am not going to believe any of it any more unless there is a lot more proof.

You dont believe a hospital bombing in a completely devastated civilian warzone would have mass casualties?

This is the tipping point.

You only care about yours - it’s complete lack of empaty and humanity that is showing the true colors of Israel.

I’ve had enough.

I’m not Jewish or Israeli and in fact in the past have mostly been sympathetic to Palestinians. What I am interested in are facts, and there is extensive drone video of the actual hospital now. We can see it.

I know you are desperately hoping for mass casualties because of an Israeli bomb, and your hysteria is very visible from your posts, but I have no interest in your fantasy world when hard evidence exists.

This is the sick part--the Palestinian/Hamas shills on this site are GLAD that the hospital was struck, b/c it creates a propaganda opportunities for them.

They want to inflame the situation, incite more terror attacks against Israel (and possibly the US), and destabilize the ME.

They don't care that the result would be tens or hundreds of thousands of additional civilian deaths.

This has been the terrorist playbook for the last 50 years.

That's why they're so insistent that Israel struck the hospital--b/c it's the only narrative that serves their violent goals.

That's exactly it -

1. a rocket goes off course in Gaza
2. it lands in a parking lot next to a hospital
3. that becomes 3a.) THEY BOMBED A HOSPITAL and 3b.) IT WAS THE IDF
4. "bombed a hospital" becomes "THE HOSPITAL WAS LEVELED, COMPLETELY DESTROYED!!!"
5. "hospital destroyed becomes" "500 DEAD!!!!"
6. "500 dead and a hospital destroyed" becomes "THE IDF USED A US JDAM AND DELIBERATELY TARGETED A HOSPITAL!!!!"
7. THE US AND IDF MURDERED 500 PEOPLE IN A HOSPITAL!
8. RIOT IN THE STREETS!!!! STORM THE EMBASSIES!!!

Yet the next morning we learn that the rocket a.) was a typical Gazan rocket, which went off course and landed in a parking lot, and didn't even damage the awnings on the building, let alone destroy it

How shameful. The Hamas spin machine is completely out of control and will get innocent people killed.

You've already killed thousands of innocent people. Stop feigning empathy for human life now.

Israel bombed the hospital just like they told the hospital staff and doctors that they would.

They were given repeated warnings to evacuate.

and there we have it. Stop pretending. Pro-Apartheid folks believe that if you tell someone before you kill them its fine. Because hospitals are easy to evacuate? So if I tell you before I bomb your house, we're cool, right?

Hamas figured how to massacre Israelis. They could have figured out how to help their fellow Palestinians evacuate. It’s not like they didn’t know what was going to happen.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They don’t care about anyone, including Palestinian civilians. Some of us expect the Israeli government, which is an established state and a beneficiary of massive U.S. foreign and military aid, to behave better and with more respect for innocent life than a literal terrorist organization.

The hospital you mean? Hamas bombed it.

Hamas - the designated terrorist organization.

Appears quite possible one of their make-shift “Qassam” terror rockets misfired - I will grant you that. So it does not appear intentional.

But how disgusting that people are trying to blame this on Israel!

No, I actually am not referring to the hospital. You are reading something into my post that I didn’t say and didn’t imply. I waited for credible independent verification on the hospital issue, and I’m inclined to believe U.S. intelligence if it’s indeed certain that it wasn’t Israel.

Israel has been committing war crimes in Gaza since the first day of its bombing campaign. It’s been bombing civilians, including in southern Gaza, where it told civilians to evacuate, has bombed schools and other medical facilities, and has denied the civilians of Gaza (who cannot leave) access to food, water, power, and sanitation, and humanitarian aid that Egypt is offering to let through. Those are war crimes. Israel has killed far more children (and adults) than Hamas killed in its terrorist attack.

All US Intelligence in the region relies on Israeli Intelligence. This has been stated repeatedly by the Intelligence Agencies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When our own members of Congress promote what now appears to be Hamas disinformation, it is difficult to convince Arab countries and Arab leaders that Israel did not have the responsibility in this explosion.

They should both be criminally prosecuted for material support to a terrorist organization, and then expelled from congress.

I'm a democrat and it's pretty gross behavior. Not bc it's anti israel (i get that) but bc if it's not confirmed by any reputable outlet then they should not be spreading disinformation. straight from the trump playbook.

Another Democrat here - 100% agreed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s been interesting watching the increasingly frantic anti-Israeli poster get more and more outlandish as the facts get clearer and clearer. I imagine she knows the truth but really wants Israel to have bombed a hospital. It should be good news that they didn’t, but that would cause the frantic PP to have to examine her biases and I imagine that is too hard to contemplate for her.

I know this much. I’m not going to believe any claims of mass casualties at this point absent extensive evidence. Hamas boasted about all their murders in their own Telegram, and there is independent corroboration, so I believe the initial Hamas attack happened. But it’s pretty clear now that this hospital attack was nothing like originally claimed, and mainstream media essentially uncritically promoted what turns out to have been Hamas propaganda.

I am not going to believe any of it any more unless there is a lot more proof.

You dont believe a hospital bombing in a completely devastated civilian warzone would have mass casualties?

This is the tipping point.

You only care about yours - it’s complete lack of empaty and humanity that is showing the true colors of Israel.

I’ve had enough.

I’m not Jewish or Israeli and in fact in the past have mostly been sympathetic to Palestinians. What I am interested in are facts, and there is extensive drone video of the actual hospital now. We can see it.

I know you are desperately hoping for mass casualties because of an Israeli bomb, and your hysteria is very visible from your posts, but I have no interest in your fantasy world when hard evidence exists.

This is the sick part--the Palestinian/Hamas shills on this site are GLAD that the hospital was struck, b/c it creates a propaganda opportunities for them.

They want to inflame the situation, incite more terror attacks against Israel (and possibly the US), and destabilize the ME.

They don't care that the result would be tens or hundreds of thousands of additional civilian deaths.

This has been the terrorist playbook for the last 50 years.

That's why they're so insistent that Israel struck the hospital--b/c it's the only narrative that serves their violent goals.

That's exactly it -

1. a rocket goes off course in Gaza
2. it lands in a parking lot next to a hospital
3. that becomes 3a.) THEY BOMBED A HOSPITAL and 3b.) IT WAS THE IDF
4. "bombed a hospital" becomes "THE HOSPITAL WAS LEVELED, COMPLETELY DESTROYED!!!"
5. "hospital destroyed becomes" "500 DEAD!!!!"
6. "500 dead and a hospital destroyed" becomes "THE IDF USED A US JDAM AND DELIBERATELY TARGETED A HOSPITAL!!!!"
7. THE US AND IDF MURDERED 500 PEOPLE IN A HOSPITAL!
8. RIOT IN THE STREETS!!!! STORM THE EMBASSIES!!!

Yet the next morning we learn that the rocket a.) was a typical Gazan rocket, which went off course and landed in a parking lot, and didn't even damage the awnings on the building, let alone destroy it

How shameful. The Hamas spin machine is completely out of control and will get innocent people killed.

You've already killed thousands of innocent people. Stop feigning empathy for human life now.

Israel bombed the hospital just like they told the hospital staff and doctors that they would.

They were given repeated warnings to evacuate.

and there we have it. Stop pretending. Pro-Apartheid folks believe that if you tell someone before you kill them its fine. Because hospitals are easy to evacuate? So if I tell you before I bomb your house, we're cool, right?

Hamas figured how to massacre Israelis. They could have figured out how to help their fellow Palestinians evacuate. It’s not like they didn’t know what was going to happen.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They don’t care about anyone, including Palestinian civilians. Some of us expect the Israeli government, which is an established state and a beneficiary of massive U.S. foreign and military aid, to behave better and with more respect for innocent life than a literal terrorist organization.

The hospital you mean? Hamas bombed it.

Hamas - the designated terrorist organization.

Appears quite possible one of their make-shift “Qassam” terror rockets misfired - I will grant you that. So it does not appear intentional.

But how disgusting that people are trying to blame this on Israel!

Israel initially took credit for the bombing and has yet to present any proof they didn't bomb the hospital (something they have done many times in the past). You seem to be reading from the old script because Israel is now saying it was Islamic Jihad, not Hamas, that bombed the hospital. Try to keep up with the lies.

LIAR! Israel did not do this. Check your facts and stop supporting Hamas - a designated terrorist organization:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061

Huh? Why do you keep posting this article. It’s definitely not helping you. Do you have problems with reading comprehension. This is what the article explicitly states:

“ The Hamas-controlled Palestinian authorities in Gaza immediately blamed Israel, claiming it was a deliberate air strike. Israel has denied involvement.
Amid the claim and counter-claim, getting to the truth is harder than ever.
BBC Verify is trying to unravel what is and isn't known - looking at video footage, still imagery and other evidence, including eyewitness accounts. In addition, a BBC journalist has been to the blast site, where there is limited access.
New information is emerging all the time, so we will continue to update this article as we learn more and talk to experts about the evidence.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you someone explain to me Israelis bulldozing Palestinian homes? What is the criteria for doing this? Punishing an entire family for one person’s actions sounds like the antithesis of democracy to me. When an Israeli Jew commits a crime, does the government also bulldoze their family home?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/29/israel-palestine-violence-west-bank/

The settlers are crazy. Most Israelis hate them.

The settlers are not crazy - that's what Israelis say to deflect from the fact that this is a territory expansion scheme - it's Israel's version of Manifest Destiny - one plat at a time. The settlers are supported by Israel's Prime Minister Bibi who promised during his most recent election campaign to annex the West Bank so Israelis could build ADDITIONAL homes on Palestinan land. Pro-Israel folks know the Israeli government has don't nothing to stop the outright theft of Palestinian land or the killing of innocent, unarmed West Bank civilians.

It's definitely a territory expansion scheme, but many of the settlers are nutters.

An outcome with both Hamas and the settlement scheme gone would be positive.

+1, and Bibi gone as well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t any overwhelming support for Palestinians even among the Arab countries in the region.

Yet, for some reason, these leaders feel the need to believe Hamas' story about the hospital, despite evidence that it is propaganda and pure lies.
Why might that be?

Because they don’t care for Jews either. Does this have to be explained to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks, the Pentagon backs up Israel’s claim it didn’t strike the hospital. I’m not sure why people wouldn’t believe the govt experts—sounds kind of Trumpy.

+1
someone should release some irrefutable proof though - that would be helpful.

Any "irrefutable proof" would be refuted by many Palestinians and Hamas supporters in some way.
They would come up with some way to discredit it... either the source, or the content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks, the Pentagon backs up Israel’s claim it didn’t strike the hospital. I’m not sure why people wouldn’t believe the govt experts—sounds kind of Trumpy.

+1
someone should release some irrefutable proof though - that would be helpful.

Why not follow the ongoing fact-check on BBC news?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t any overwhelming support for Palestinians even among the Arab countries in the region.

Yet, for some reason, these leaders feel the need to believe Hamas' story about the hospital, despite evidence that it is propaganda and pure lies.
Why might that be?

Because they don’t care for Jews either. Does this have to be explained to you?

No, I get that. I don't think others do, though.