The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I said that Lucia has fragile power that is tied to this specific moment in time. She has power in that Albie likes her and he is powerful and she has some control over his power in this moment. But this is fleeting power and could be used to help her or destroy her depending on how she wields it.

Daphne has tremendous power and if you can't see that then you are blinded by the men. She holds the power in that relationship. I would honestly like you to give an example where she doesn't. He pulls one move she's annoyed with and she punishes him by staying away for the night (although its interesting we didn't get to see that conversation) and then freezes him out so he's making it up to her the next day. He is afraid of losing her and has said it out loud twice in the series (once to Lucia, once when recounting her emergency birth). She has not said anything like that about him. She isn't afraid of losing him at all.

Lol it’s clear that she doesn’t want Cam cheating but she can’t get him to stop. She only sleeps with the trainer because it makes her feel less internally humiliated. Cam doesn’t even know about it. We’re supposed to realize she’s lying to herself and Harper when she says things like “I’m not a victim.” She’d much rather have a faithful husband and perfect marriage. If you think that’s power, and a healthy happy relationship, I feel really sorry for you.

Mike White and the actress have explicitly said the opposite of this. I do not believe they have a happy and healthy relationship, I believe she wields the power in the unhealthy relationship they have. The fact that you can't understand that makes me question your understanding of the complexities that the show is trying to get across. You want this to be black and white. This show is not black and white.

She has some power but not a lot. Cameron is the exact type of man who will dump his middle aged wife for a younger trophy. He’s already aggressively cheating on her.

That is a different kind of horrible man IMO. Which isn't a defense of Cameron. But he very much loves her. He is the only male on the show (other than Albie) actively showing affection to a woman and showing that he actively cares what she thinks. And that is not 'stanning' them or saying they have a good relationship or stanning her. It is just an observation. He cares about what Daphne thinks, he will never leave her. He is the guy who will cheat and promise to leave but never actually do it.

Does he though? That’s the exact question Dom asks his father. Nono aggressively cheated on his wife and everyone knew including the wife who was unhappy about it. Yet Nono maintains they loved each other and had a happy marriage. We the audience think this is delusional thinking in his part. Dom asks something like, how can you say you love someone and treat them that way?

Cam cares about Daphne but it’s not a selfless love. He doesn’t prioritize her happiness over his own or his sexual appetites.

I didn't say it was selfless but yes I think he loves her. I have said it before he is the only guy who is expressing that he cares about this. When she's upset he does things to address it (schedule wine tasting), when he talks about her almost dying in childbirth he cries, when Lucia talks to him he is upset because he is with his WIFE. He is not a good person I'm not saying this is a good or healthy or pure love. But it is absolutely a primary driver of his behavior. I think Nono loved his wife. I think Dom does not love Laura Dern. You can love someone and be bad to them and act selfishly, that happens in marriages and romances every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tanya’s not hurting anybody. She just floats around.

She’s probably overpaying the personal assistant, but nothing terrible is going on there. I’m sure other PAs or Annie’s if billionaires are sometimes treated terribly.

Being told to be on call during a $100k trip to Sicily…BFD. Don’t be a PA if you’re not available once in awhile.

She was exceptionally cruel in season 1 to the masseuse. Casually cruel in a way a wealthy person might not even understand just how cruel they were being.

No, cruel is not the correct word. Tanya was flakey.

Do YOU know anyone who made one pitch book for their idea (really Tanya’s idea) and won $1M seed money during a 1 week vacation of the financier?!

Yes be ready for rare opportunities to strike but don’t cry out cruel when someone you don’t know who seems unstable doesn’t gift you startup capital in less than seven days.

And she didn’t. She sighed and shook her head that Tanya the drama chaser ran to the next thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I said that Lucia has fragile power that is tied to this specific moment in time. She has power in that Albie likes her and he is powerful and she has some control over his power in this moment. But this is fleeting power and could be used to help her or destroy her depending on how she wields it.

Daphne has tremendous power and if you can't see that then you are blinded by the men. She holds the power in that relationship. I would honestly like you to give an example where she doesn't. He pulls one move she's annoyed with and she punishes him by staying away for the night (although its interesting we didn't get to see that conversation) and then freezes him out so he's making it up to her the next day. He is afraid of losing her and has said it out loud twice in the series (once to Lucia, once when recounting her emergency birth). She has not said anything like that about him. She isn't afraid of losing him at all.

Lol it’s clear that she doesn’t want Cam cheating but she can’t get him to stop. She only sleeps with the trainer because it makes her feel less internally humiliated. Cam doesn’t even know about it. We’re supposed to realize she’s lying to herself and Harper when she says things like “I’m not a victim.” She’d much rather have a faithful husband and perfect marriage. If you think that’s power, and a healthy happy relationship, I feel really sorry for you.

Mike White and the actress have explicitly said the opposite of this. I do not believe they have a happy and healthy relationship, I believe she wields the power in the unhealthy relationship they have. The fact that you can't understand that makes me question your understanding of the complexities that the show is trying to get across. You want this to be black and white. This show is not black and white.

She has some power but not a lot. Cameron is the exact type of man who will dump his middle aged wife for a younger trophy. He’s already aggressively cheating on her.

That is a different kind of horrible man IMO. Which isn't a defense of Cameron. But he very much loves her. He is the only male on the show (other than Albie) actively showing affection to a woman and showing that he actively cares what she thinks. And that is not 'stanning' them or saying they have a good relationship or stanning her. It is just an observation. He cares about what Daphne thinks, he will never leave her. He is the guy who will cheat and promise to leave but never actually do it.

They definitely do NOT have a good relationship lol. I could see one of them killing the other eventually.

Neither do Ethan and Harper but theirs is a different type of misery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 7 deadly sins and the characters who have committed them this season:

Lust - Cameron (with Lucia, Mia, and Harper), Dom (with Mia and Lucia but also in general and in the past), Albie (with Portia, unconsummated, and with Lucia), Valentina (with the front desk woman, unconsummated), Mia, Lucia, Giuseppe (the piano player, with Lucia), Portia (with Jack), Jack (with Portia and Quentin), Quentin (with Jack), the front desk woman (with Rocco, presumably unconsummated)
Gluttony - Everyone, it's Italy!
Greed - Cameron (asking Ethan for money, refusing to give Lucia money), Daphne (all the shopping, the house in Noto), Lucia (constantly asking people for money, yes it's owed to her but also she's sometimes devious in getting it, as with Albie), Greg (complaining about the prenup)
Sloth - Portia the first several episodes when she won't do anything about her situation, maybe Tanya when she takes to her bed, maybe Ethan when he refuses to have sex with Harper?
Wrath - no one, yet, but it's coming
Envy - Harper (of Daphne and Cameron), Cameron (of Ethan), Greg (of Tanya), Portia (of Tanya), Valentina (of Rocco)
Pride - Cameron (the bragging), Daphne (same), Harper (same), Ethan (same), Bert (all the lecturing of Dom), Valentina (general vibe of superiority)

Here's who has been punished so far:

Giuseppe, with the drug reaction

I think the next few episodes will focus on punishment.

There's only 3 episodes left.

Didn’t it say 2 more episodes after the flash forwards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I said that Lucia has fragile power that is tied to this specific moment in time. She has power in that Albie likes her and he is powerful and she has some control over his power in this moment. But this is fleeting power and could be used to help her or destroy her depending on how she wields it.

Daphne has tremendous power and if you can't see that then you are blinded by the men. She holds the power in that relationship. I would honestly like you to give an example where she doesn't. He pulls one move she's annoyed with and she punishes him by staying away for the night (although its interesting we didn't get to see that conversation) and then freezes him out so he's making it up to her the next day. He is afraid of losing her and has said it out loud twice in the series (once to Lucia, once when recounting her emergency birth). She has not said anything like that about him. She isn't afraid of losing him at all.

Lol it’s clear that she doesn’t want Cam cheating but she can’t get him to stop. She only sleeps with the trainer because it makes her feel less internally humiliated. Cam doesn’t even know about it. We’re supposed to realize she’s lying to herself and Harper when she says things like “I’m not a victim.” She’d much rather have a faithful husband and perfect marriage. If you think that’s power, and a healthy happy relationship, I feel really sorry for you.

Mike White and the actress have explicitly said the opposite of this. I do not believe they have a happy and healthy relationship, I believe she wields the power in the unhealthy relationship they have. The fact that you can't understand that makes me question your understanding of the complexities that the show is trying to get across. You want this to be black and white. This show is not black and white.

She has some power but not a lot. Cameron is the exact type of man who will dump his middle aged wife for a younger trophy. He’s already aggressively cheating on her.

That is a different kind of horrible man IMO. Which isn't a defense of Cameron. But he very much loves her. He is the only male on the show (other than Albie) actively showing affection to a woman and showing that he actively cares what she thinks. And that is not 'stanning' them or saying they have a good relationship or stanning her. It is just an observation. He cares about what Daphne thinks, he will never leave her. He is the guy who will cheat and promise to leave but never actually do it.

Does he though? That’s the exact question Dom asks his father. Nono aggressively cheated on his wife and everyone knew including the wife who was unhappy about it. Yet Nono maintains they loved each other and had a happy marriage. We the audience think this is delusional thinking in his part. Dom asks something like, how can you say you love someone and treat them that way?

Cam cares about Daphne but it’s not a selfless love. He doesn’t prioritize her happiness over his own or his sexual appetites.

I didn't say it was selfless but yes I think he loves her. I have said it before he is the only guy who is expressing that he cares about this. When she's upset he does things to address it (schedule wine tasting), when he talks about her almost dying in childbirth he cries, when Lucia talks to him he is upset because he is with his WIFE. He is not a good person I'm not saying this is a good or healthy or pure love. But it is absolutely a primary driver of his behavior. I think Nono loved his wife. I think Dom does not love Laura Dern. You can love someone and be bad to them and act selfishly, that happens in marriages and romances every day.

Loving someone means you are willing to put their happiness over your own in matters where it counts like fidelity. Cam and Daphne are a dumpster fire. It blows my mind that anyone thinks they are aspirational. She’s gone for one night and he hires hookers. She’s having a long term affair with her trainer to get back at his rampant cheating. One or both of her kids may have been fathered by another man. Cam doesn’t have the cash to pay the hooker who is threatening to blow up his spot imminently. If they were white and beautiful, they’d be on Maury Povich.

I guess that is pretty privilege for you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ethan’s comment towards Cameron about mimetic desire and indicating he has higher status was BOLD, loved to see it.

Also loved Harpers scenes this last episode, the first scene re discovering what happened and then her comment about her husbands porn habits.

Zinging the zingers!

[Anonymous]

Theme is: F around too much and see what happens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not surprising that on DCUM the sympathy tilts toward the rich white woman.

I know. It’s just so easy to do evil, good and victimize by color or income or wealth only.

[Anonymous]

I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the relationship between Quentin and Tonya just ends up being good friends who both enjoy beauty and company.

I think the show asks you to question why you root for someone like Tanya. She is not a good or kind person. She is a broken person though. I think the show likes drawing these very multidimensional characters to force you to question why you have soft spots/root for some. How Cameron can be so terrible but the fact that he's so incredibly handsome can really make you forget for brief moments. How a pp on a different page can feel so deeply for Daphne when she is admittedly both not a victim and devious herself (in addition to being vapid in the same ways Cam is with the not voting no global awareness).

Why you feel so deeply for Tanya after watching her build up and dash a woman's dreams and ticket from poverty to marry the same man who is now likely plotting against her.

I think the point is that we all have bad inside us, and when we see bad in others that we recognize in ourselves or could see ourselves replicating we minimize it. So someone who could see herself cheating and plotting to deal with tolerating their cheating husband is sympathetic to Daphne. People who may have experienced childhood trauma or abusive parenting have a hard time holding Tanya accountable for her behavior etc. It is why Ethan tells Harper she should be happy about the rager story. He sees it as a moral victory, overlooking the bad to focus on the good. We all do it, but the show highlights the bad just enough to make you very uncomfortable about these sympathetic feelings you have.

I enjoyed this whole post

Just like the Bible and Torah and Koran tell us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I said that Lucia has fragile power that is tied to this specific moment in time. She has power in that Albie likes her and he is powerful and she has some control over his power in this moment. But this is fleeting power and could be used to help her or destroy her depending on how she wields it.

Daphne has tremendous power and if you can't see that then you are blinded by the men. She holds the power in that relationship. I would honestly like you to give an example where she doesn't. He pulls one move she's annoyed with and she punishes him by staying away for the night (although its interesting we didn't get to see that conversation) and then freezes him out so he's making it up to her the next day. He is afraid of losing her and has said it out loud twice in the series (once to Lucia, once when recounting her emergency birth). She has not said anything like that about him. She isn't afraid of losing him at all.

Lol it’s clear that she doesn’t want Cam cheating but she can’t get him to stop. She only sleeps with the trainer because it makes her feel less internally humiliated. Cam doesn’t even know about it. We’re supposed to realize she’s lying to herself and Harper when she says things like “I’m not a victim.” She’d much rather have a faithful husband and perfect marriage. If you think that’s power, and a healthy happy relationship, I feel really sorry for you.

She’s out there doing her least worst option for herself and kids. Run the scenarios and probabilities yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

This show is kind of a study in dysfunction though and I really believe no relationship is 100% functional and healthy 100% of the time. I know that’s a cynical view and that there are many overall good relationships much less dysfunctional than those on the show but I bet even the best couple would have some issues to be highlighted and addressed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

It’s ambiguous at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

This show is kind of a study in dysfunction though and I really believe no relationship is 100% functional and healthy 100% of the time. I know that’s a cynical view and that there are many overall good relationships much less dysfunctional than those on the show but I bet even the best couple would have some issues to be highlighted and addressed

Yeah, I think that the nice middle aged couple with no issues having a great vacation is there, they are just in the background and we don't spend any time with them because while they have a nice life, they are exceedingly boring. Maybe we'll check in on them during a future season when they are in crisis.