Cops in TX tackle & block desperate parents, while they let shooter rampage thru the school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s the ‘door propped’ peddler and the ‘mom blame’ peddler.

Both grasping for ways to distract focus from the real problems here.

1) Access to guns.
2) Cowards that carry guns.

Bizarre and stupid snark.

Reports have stated that the door was propped. Very unfortunate. Are you claiming that this wasn’t a factor? To be clear: guns are the overarching and most important problem by far. I’d like to see the second amendment repealed. The other problem was obviously law enforcement. Good guys with guns who didn’t act correctly per the reports.

You call my post bizarre and stupid, then go on to reiterate what I just said plus add your propped door agenda to it.

There are deliberate factors and there are everyday mistakes.

You are conflating a door being propped into the same category of the deliberate actions of purchasing an assault rifle to murder children.
You are also conflating a propped door with the negligent actions of trained officers with guns that refused to help stop the massacre of children.

There is no propped door agenda. It’s a fact show in video and still footage. It doesn’t matter if it was deliberate or not - it served as the point of entry. Once inside, he was able to barricade himself between two classroom and still keep an eye on both doors and peep windows. Like or or not, that’s what happened.

Maybe since doors are the problem, we should ban them instead of guns.

Give it a rest.

The problem is none of you want to admit that a wide open security door was a huge contributor. It was. Facts are facts.

yes, it still would have happened. He would have shot the door open.

Facts are facts: gunman would have found an area to shoot up a whole bunch of people whether that door was open or not. Maybe at a mall? Or a restaurant?

Do you gun nuts know how stupid you sound saying the fault was an open door?

Do you anti gun nuts know how stupid you sound blaming the police when more than likely all of the killing was done within 15 minutes of entry. One report stated the killer was holed up in a cabinet waiting for the breached classroom door and stepped out and fired on the BP agent who eventually made him DRT.

The only one who is to blame for this is ultimately the killer.

Police were outside the door of the classroom within minutes. And they waiter there. Yes, lives could have been saved had they acted immediately, as per protocol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason the doors are significant is because it adds another layer of security. These are reinforced steel doors that open outward and are designed to resist being breached. Home doors that you see taken down with a battering ram fail at the lock when hit. Doors that swing outward are harder to breach because the entire frame supports the door from going inward.

The school also has a policy to lock doors during instruction and again, this policy was not followed. Why did the suspect skip four classrooms near the entrance and go to the two classrooms that he did? Likely because the four classrooms near the entrance were locked and the classrooms he went to were unlocked. The path of least resistance to his targets.

The layers of security (fence, exterior doors, and classroom doors) are not designed to stop an active shooter. They are designed to minimize the risks to the staff and students by delaying the active shooter from reaching them in the classroom. Had the exterior door been closed, most likely the shooter would have remained outside and encounter the responding law enforcement outside the building. This most likely would have limited the number of casualties inside the building.

Let's remove all the politics, gun laws, weapons, and active shooter from this scenario. If an unauthorized person outside the building entered a classroom in the same manner as this suspect and kidnapped a student instead, would your view of the locked doors now be different?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s the ‘door propped’ peddler and the ‘mom blame’ peddler.

Both grasping for ways to distract focus from the real problems here.

1) Access to guns.
2) Cowards that carry guns.

Bizarre and stupid snark.

Reports have stated that the door was propped. Very unfortunate. Are you claiming that this wasn’t a factor? To be clear: guns are the overarching and most important problem by far. I’d like to see the second amendment repealed. The other problem was obviously law enforcement. Good guys with guns who didn’t act correctly per the reports.

You call my post bizarre and stupid, then go on to reiterate what I just said plus add your propped door agenda to it.

There are deliberate factors and there are everyday mistakes.

You are conflating a door being propped into the same category of the deliberate actions of purchasing an assault rifle to murder children.
You are also conflating a propped door with the negligent actions of trained officers with guns that refused to help stop the massacre of children.

There is no propped door agenda. It’s a fact show in video and still footage. It doesn’t matter if it was deliberate or not - it served as the point of entry. Once inside, he was able to barricade himself between two classroom and still keep an eye on both doors and peep windows. Like or or not, that’s what happened.

Maybe since doors are the problem, we should ban them instead of guns.

Give it a rest.

If school kidnappings were as rampant as school shootings, then you can use your dumb analogy.

Until then, your deflection and obsession with doors is showing disturbing OCD like mentality and your reasoning skills are impaired.

Take a nap.

[Anonymous]

If you think that door being open is the only reason that active shooter got in the building that day, then you are not having a good face discussion about gun control and how to stop these massacres

Schools are not presents, meaning there are many different entry points and many windows. The doors with glass. How long do you think it takes someone to break one of those?. If you think they're worried about entering a door with broken glass, then you truly don't understand the suicide mission these men go on.

[Anonymous]

If guns make us all safer, then why couldn't guns be a President Trump's rally and why can't guns be carried into Congress?.

[Anonymous]

Police department failed on so many levels.
There's no reason they could have borrowed through a wall with an ax and hammer.
They had practiced these drills in the actual school so he should have known the layout very well.
This is their job

[Anonymous]

I was all for coming since gun control before these mass shootings but now feel that all gun should be banned

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The propped open door wouldn't have been so much of a problem, if we were responsible about guns.

The incompetent police response wouldn't have been so much of a problem, if we were responsible about guns.

Note the one common element to every single one of these things? It's irresponsible gun policy.

Stop talking about incompetent police or propped doors. Those are separate, secondary issues.

The kid’s mental illness flagged by his peers and open door were primary issues. In both cases, adults failed kids. You guys can go on and on about guns but these two facts are indisputable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a must read: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/27/uvalde-school-student-survival/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3FKVKd3lzhFcIlBag6GnjU9J2EzmNS76g1Psa3X0WFy7GLRvJ0MqxqMTk

If you can read this article and still think that it’s not worth it to limit access to guns. So that children don’t have to be treated this way. So that children aren’t sacrificed.

I’m sorry, you’re a monster who should rot in he**.

Democrats: Read this biased, emotional article. If you have questions, you’re HORRIBLE. So shut up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s the ‘door propped’ peddler and the ‘mom blame’ peddler.

Both grasping for ways to distract focus from the real problems here.

1) Access to guns.
2) Cowards that carry guns.

Bizarre and stupid snark.

Reports have stated that the door was propped. Very unfortunate. Are you claiming that this wasn’t a factor? To be clear: guns are the overarching and most important problem by far. I’d like to see the second amendment repealed. The other problem was obviously law enforcement. Good guys with guns who didn’t act correctly per the reports.

The good guy with the gun had to borrow his friend’s gun from the barber shop. Without that civilian gun (which would be taken away by people here), there would have been no heroics at all.

You call my post bizarre and stupid, then go on to reiterate what I just said plus add your propped door agenda to it.

There are deliberate factors and there are everyday mistakes.

You are conflating a door being propped into the same category of the deliberate actions of purchasing an assault rifle to murder children.
You are also conflating a propped door with the negligent actions of trained officers with guns that refused to help stop the massacre of children.

There is no propped door agenda. It’s a fact show in video and still footage. It doesn’t matter if it was deliberate or not - it served as the point of entry. Once inside, he was able to barricade himself between two classroom and still keep an eye on both doors and peep windows. Like or or not, that’s what happened.

Maybe since doors are the problem, we should ban them instead of guns.

Give it a rest.

The problem is none of you want to admit that a wide open security door was a huge contributor. It was. Facts are facts.

yes, it still would have happened. He would have shot the door open.

Facts are facts: gunman would have found an area to shoot up a whole bunch of people whether that door was open or not. Maybe at a mall? Or a restaurant?

Do you gun nuts know how stupid you sound saying the fault was an open door?

Do you anti gun nuts know how stupid you sound blaming the police when more than likely all of the killing was done within 15 minutes of entry. One report stated the killer was holed up in a cabinet waiting for the breached classroom door and stepped out and fired on the BP agent who eventually made him DRT.

The only one who is to blame for this is ultimately the killer.

Y'all have been telling us the "good guys with guns" were all we needed to keep everyone safe. You lied.

The BP agent was the only one willing to give up his life to save those kids. I feel bad for the police officers, as I can imagine they didn't want to die either.

That's why we need to stop listening to the gun nuts. No one wants to take these crazies with AR-15s on. They also have to be on a possible suicide mission. But gun nuts don't seem to care how many kids, teachers, grocery store workers or cops need to die to serve their hobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason the doors are significant is because it adds another layer of security. These are reinforced steel doors that open outward and are designed to resist being breached. Home doors that you see taken down with a battering ram fail at the lock when hit. Doors that swing outward are harder to breach because the entire frame supports the door from going inward.

The school also has a policy to lock doors during instruction and again, this policy was not followed. Why did the suspect skip four classrooms near the entrance and go to the two classrooms that he did? Likely because the four classrooms near the entrance were locked and the classrooms he went to were unlocked. The path of least resistance to his targets.

The layers of security (fence, exterior doors, and classroom doors) are not designed to stop an active shooter. They are designed to minimize the risks to the staff and students by delaying the active shooter from reaching them in the classroom. Had the exterior door been closed, most likely the shooter would have remained outside and encounter the responding law enforcement outside the building. This most likely would have limited the number of casualties inside the building.

Let's remove all the politics, gun laws, weapons, and active shooter from this scenario. If an unauthorized person outside the building entered a classroom in the same manner as this suspect and kidnapped a student instead, would your view of the locked doors now be different?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s the ‘door propped’ peddler and the ‘mom blame’ peddler.

Both grasping for ways to distract focus from the real problems here.

1) Access to guns.
2) Cowards that carry guns.

Bizarre and stupid snark.

Reports have stated that the door was propped. Very unfortunate. Are you claiming that this wasn’t a factor? To be clear: guns are the overarching and most important problem by far. I’d like to see the second amendment repealed. The other problem was obviously law enforcement. Good guys with guns who didn’t act correctly per the reports.

You call my post bizarre and stupid, then go on to reiterate what I just said plus add your propped door agenda to it.

There are deliberate factors and there are everyday mistakes.

You are conflating a door being propped into the same category of the deliberate actions of purchasing an assault rifle to murder children.
You are also conflating a propped door with the negligent actions of trained officers with guns that refused to help stop the massacre of children.

There is no propped door agenda. It’s a fact show in video and still footage. It doesn’t matter if it was deliberate or not - it served as the point of entry. Once inside, he was able to barricade himself between two classroom and still keep an eye on both doors and peep windows. Like or or not, that’s what happened.

Maybe since doors are the problem, we should ban them instead of guns.

Give it a rest.

Precisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The propped open door wouldn't have been so much of a problem, if we were responsible about guns.

The incompetent police response wouldn't have been so much of a problem, if we were responsible about guns.

Note the one common element to every single one of these things? It's irresponsible gun policy.

Stop talking about incompetent police or propped doors. Those are separate, secondary issues.

The kid’s mental illness flagged by his peers and open door were primary issues. In both cases, adults failed kids. You guys can go on and on about guns but these two facts are indisputable.

What’s also indisputable is that had he not had the guns these kids would be alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The propped open door wouldn't have been so much of a problem, if we were responsible about guns.

The incompetent police response wouldn't have been so much of a problem, if we were responsible about guns.

Note the one common element to every single one of these things? It's irresponsible gun policy.

Stop talking about incompetent police or propped doors. Those are separate, secondary issues.

The kid’s mental illness flagged by his peers and open door were primary issues. In both cases, adults failed kids. You guys can go on and on about guns but these two facts are indisputable.

A kid with mental illness isn’t much of an issue unless they can easily buy guns and ammunition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason the doors are significant is because it adds another layer of security. These are reinforced steel doors that open outward and are designed to resist being breached. Home doors that you see taken down with a battering ram fail at the lock when hit. Doors that swing outward are harder to breach because the entire frame supports the door from going inward.

The school also has a policy to lock doors during instruction and again, this policy was not followed. Why did the suspect skip four classrooms near the entrance and go to the two classrooms that he did? Likely because the four classrooms near the entrance were locked and the classrooms he went to were unlocked. The path of least resistance to his targets.

The layers of security (fence, exterior doors, and classroom doors) are not designed to stop an active shooter. They are designed to minimize the risks to the staff and students by delaying the active shooter from reaching them in the classroom. Had the exterior door been closed, most likely the shooter would have remained outside and encounter the responding law enforcement outside the building. This most likely would have limited the number of casualties inside the building.

Let's remove all the politics, gun laws, weapons, and active shooter from this scenario. If an unauthorized person outside the building entered a classroom in the same manner as this suspect and kidnapped a student instead, would your view of the locked doors now be different?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s the ‘door propped’ peddler and the ‘mom blame’ peddler.

Both grasping for ways to distract focus from the real problems here.

1) Access to guns.
2) Cowards that carry guns.

Bizarre and stupid snark.

Reports have stated that the door was propped. Very unfortunate. Are you claiming that this wasn’t a factor? To be clear: guns are the overarching and most important problem by far. I’d like to see the second amendment repealed. The other problem was obviously law enforcement. Good guys with guns who didn’t act correctly per the reports.

You call my post bizarre and stupid, then go on to reiterate what I just said plus add your propped door agenda to it.

There are deliberate factors and there are everyday mistakes.

You are conflating a door being propped into the same category of the deliberate actions of purchasing an assault rifle to murder children.
You are also conflating a propped door with the negligent actions of trained officers with guns that refused to help stop the massacre of children.

There is no propped door agenda. It’s a fact show in video and still footage. It doesn’t matter if it was deliberate or not - it served as the point of entry. Once inside, he was able to barricade himself between two classroom and still keep an eye on both doors and peep windows. Like or or not, that’s what happened.

Maybe since doors are the problem, we should ban them instead of guns.

Give it a rest.

If school kidnappings were as rampant as school shootings, then you can use your dumb analogy.

Until then, your deflection and obsession with doors is showing disturbing OCD like mentality and your reasoning skills are impaired.

Take a nap.

You have NO answer to the PP’s points, because they are all excellent. That door is critical because it was very hard to breach when closed. Your disturbing OCD like mentality about guns, Republicans, Trump, etc keeps you from seeing all other issues. Social media in this case played a HUGE issue. This could have been stopped in multiple ways before it even happened. Same as Sandy Hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a good explanation of what went down from Tim Sumner:

"The steel doors designed to keep killers out were used by the shooter to keep police out. w/o a key to open them, police would've had to use infantry techniques (explosives) to breech the outer walls. The kids and teachers were not the enemy. Blowing holes in walls, police indiscriminately spraying the room with bullets, or engaging a full body armored shooter using kids as human shields were NOT good options. (Imagine THAT forensic pathology report it would have generated, proof police killed X number of the innocent during entry). police entered Robb Elementary hallway (inverted T-shaped) 2-3 minutes after the shooter. The shooter had locked the doors and was slaughtering. From doorway, shooter sprayed police (who lacked cover) with bullets, wounding 2. Shooter wore full body armor. Police best option was to fall back to 2 corners feet away from CRs 111 and 112 doors and get backup. They needed keys or tools to open those doors. The police could not yet know who was alive, wounded, or dead in those CRs. Police needed level 4 shields to survive long enough upon entry to take down shooter for they did not know where within the 2 adjoining classrooms he would be when they entered. 9-1-1 calls were coming in. However, the police still lacked entry tools. Small kids playing dead, disoriented, crying for help provided little useful information (NOT at all the kids' fault). Sporadic fire from inside 2 adjoining CRs only momentarily provided police a fix on shooter, and he'd shot at police trying to peek through small windows on doors. Again, police could not place effective fire on moving shooter. He was barricaded in, could move within and between 2 CRs, and there were still living innocents inside. Were the police supposed to crashed through the outer windows, spray those 2 classrooms with bullets, and return fire once the shooter showed himself? That might be the right way during war but saving lives (not accepting "collateral damage") is what police are trained to do. So, the police waited for an entry team (drove 70 miles in 40 minutes), located a master key, listened, watched, and planned the entry of two doors. Meanwhile, "spotters"peering through the outer windows tried to get a fix on the shooter's location inside and relay to the entry team(s). If he was below the outer window, they would not have seen him. THIS IS IMPORTANT: Police told a Congressman afterwards the shooter emerged from a closet and and fired at them once entry was made. Upon entry, at least 1 police officer was wounded from the shooter's bullets passing above, below, outside those shields. The police had to expose body parts to get a shot. That is NOT cowardice on the part of the police; they wanted to live long enough to eliminate the shooter.

The ONLY people responsible for the deaths & wounded innocent kids & teachers ARE the shooter and anyone who helped him commit mass murder.

God bless the children, teachers, & police

P.S. If shooter positioned inside in the doorway between the 2 classrooms, he would have shielded himself from police viewing & snipers outside the school wing. He could observe police attempting to peak through small windows on doors. Adjoining door likely looked like a closet.Inner doorway between classrooms 111 & 112 was not a flat structure. It was a closet with doors on both sides through which teachers and students and the shooter could pass. Inside it, shooter could observe outer doors, both classrooms, and be shielded from outside window view. Uvalde gunman emerged from classroom closet firing as Border Patrol agents entered, officials say

Graphic of layout of classrooms/closet here:

https://ibb.co/qysc9pt

I thought it was confirmed he was not wearing body armor? I find it hard to believe anything coming out of TX at this point. Will wait for DOJ.

So you are also saying that a school feature built to keep the kids safe from guns did not work as intended........again, the source of all these problems are guns.

Again, the door was left open

I'm an aerospace engineer. In grad school, I took a human factors engineering class. You need to design systems around how people are likely to use, and potentially misuse, them. People prop open secure doors. It happens everywhere and has happened forever. If a door is your only defense against a massacre, then you've failed as a solution developer.

I fully agree with you. And schools and democrat politicians repeatedly refuse enhanced security because the former don’t think fortifying is ‘good for the kids’ and the latter use only see gun control as a solution. It’s clear trained teachers who had access to securely stored weapons on the inside was really the only solution that would have helped. As an engineer, you should understand how those safes work and why they are secure.

What’s clear is that you are asking teachers to arm themselves and go after a bad guy with a gun. And now the police department SWAT team. I 100% believe teachers are braver than the police. But if it’s so scary police won’t enter the classroom, why in the world are we asking teachers to step up? At a minimum, why not fire SWAT and double teacher pay?

What's bizarre is that the same wackjob right wing who spent the last several years demonizing teachers, saying they are indoctrinating kids in leftism, indoctrinating them in CRT, grooming them to be trans and whatever other crazy nonsense du jour - that same wackjob right wing now wants to arm those same teachers. The right wing is insane. It's long past time to make them just shut up and sit down and afford them zero credibility whatsoever.

We don’t believe every teacher believes in CRT, grooming etc. That’s a left wing fantasy, just like the fact the trans/CRT/grooming occurs with much more regularity in liberal areas of the country.

While right wingers groom kids to be gun nuts. I suspect it’s easier to get kids to obsess about guns than it is to change their sexual orientation.

No one is obsessed with guns except for people who want to use them for evil. And leftists who think every individual who owns a gun is obsessed with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you think that door being open is the only reason that active shooter got in the building that day, then you are not having a good face discussion about gun control and how to stop these massacres

Schools are not presents, meaning there are many different entry points and many windows. The doors with glass. How long do you think it takes someone to break one of those?. If you think they're worried about entering a door with broken glass, then you truly don't understand the suicide mission these men go on.

If there was a resource officer ON premise, he never would have gotten inside, or gotten far. Multiply that officer by a few other trained staff members and knowledge on the outside that the school was protected and the gunman would not have shown up there. It was clear he wasn’t on a suicide mission as he hid most of the time and came out shooting at cops multiple times.

We find out now that not only was the door open, but the school resource officer was gone. I’m sure he knew EXACTLY when to go to that school, when it would be unprotected. We know he planned it because he told his peers he was going to do it. They told adults who did NOTHING.