A Solution to the TJ Lottery Madness

[Anonymous]

In reading about the FCPS' frenzied, half-assed approach to revamping TJ admissions, it seems to me that the proposed merit-based lottery system is an inane solution to addressing diversity. More alarmingly, it is detrimental to the quality of a high school that refreshingly has a rigorous curriculum and a high standard. For a change, we have a school that is competitive with what would be routine in other countries.

If only our Middle Schools and Elementary Schools had such high standards, we would be building a strong foundation in the children from early on for all demographics, and not be in this situation. On the contrary, look at the number elementary school teachers who teach Math and Science who actually have a STEM background – they may be counted on the one hand. In other countries, elementary school Math is taught by someone with math expertise and the Science teacher has a science background. The data in this survey -- https://www.sreb.org/blog-post/giving-elementary-teachers-tools-teach-math-well -- is quite telling: only 3% of elementary school teachers have a degree in Math or Math Education. It is appalling that anyone in this country can become an elementary school teacher with only a teacher certification. Most of them are liberal arts majors, with no clear understanding of Math or Science concepts themselves and, sadly, with an expressed dislike for Math and Science. What kind of passion can you expect them to instill in our children? As a result, most of our elementary school education is focused on social studies and the soft subjects, with only lip service to Science and Math. Much of the math and science education, therefore, is left to the parents’ initiatives to provide the training and exposure. So, the result is not surprising. We routinely turn a blind eye toward this science and math apathy in the foundational years of school. Our public school education system is failing at the foundation and here we are trying to paint the roof with a desired proportion of colors. To paraphrase Thomas L. Friedman, we are rapidly racing ourselves to the bottom.

The crap shoot approach being proposed for TJ admissions would amount to nothing but diluting the quality of an exemplary school and, in fact, would lead to reverse-discrimination of excluding the top students with a genuine STEM passion by subjecting them to a game of chance. Of course, there is no NAACP or politician championing for the top STEM students, because it is not politically sexy and doesn’t get votes. The argument that the FCPS Superintendent offered in favor of this lottery system is that certain families spend about $15,000 in test prep. This argument is ludicrous, at best. Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money? In a similar vein to the lottery-based admission to a STEM school, would the school and college athletics programs also adopt a lottery system? After all, parents spend a lot of money on sports camps and training athletes to be competitive. Professional NBA is made of 74% Blacks, 23% White, 1.8% Latino and 0.2% Asian players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_NBA). Similarly, NFL has 70% Blacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_players_in_professional_American_football). Are these numbers representative of our demographic? Why aren’t we addressing that?

Returning to the issue of our hometown, there is a sensible and meaningful solution to the TJ situation: If the goal is to have a certain percentage/number of preferred inclusion of the underrepresented groups, why not carve out the desired fraction of admissions in each class exclusively for the underrepresented groups? Let's say a class has 500 students, and a 20% representation (or pick whatever distribution that fancies the bean counters) of the underrepresented groups is desired. This means that 100 of the spots would be dedicated to the underrepresented population. Among the 100, the target may be 40 Black, 30 Hispanic, 30 other underrepresented groups. Then, admit the top scorers in the admissions test, teacher recommendations, SIS essays within the respective groups – in our example, the top 40 among all Black applicants, the top 30 among all Hispanic applicants and the top 30 among the other underrepresented groups. The remaining 400 is open to all other groups – Asians, Whites and anyone else. This will ensure that each class will have exactly the same demographic proportion desired and the politicians can win elections touting their dedication to diversity. This is still merit based and will be rewarding the top STEM students than leaving their fate to a game of chance. It is a win-all solution.

Is anyone listening?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In reading about the FCPS' frenzied, half-assed approach to revamping TJ admissions, it seems to me that the proposed merit-based lottery system is an inane solution to addressing diversity. More alarmingly, it is detrimental to the quality of a high school that refreshingly has a rigorous curriculum and a high standard. For a change, we have a school that is competitive with what would be routine in other countries.

If only our Middle Schools and Elementary Schools had such high standards, we would be building a strong foundation in the children from early on for all demographics, and not be in this situation. On the contrary, look at the number elementary school teachers who teach Math and Science who actually have a STEM background – they may be counted on the one hand. In other countries, elementary school Math is taught by someone with math expertise and the Science teacher has a science background. The data in this survey -- https://www.sreb.org/blog-post/giving-elementary-teachers-tools-teach-math-well -- is quite telling: only 3% of elementary school teachers have a degree in Math or Math Education. It is appalling that anyone in this country can become an elementary school teacher with only a teacher certification. Most of them are liberal arts majors, with no clear understanding of Math or Science concepts themselves and, sadly, with an expressed dislike for Math and Science. What kind of passion can you expect them to instill in our children? As a result, most of our elementary school education is focused on social studies and the soft subjects, with only lip service to Science and Math. Much of the math and science education, therefore, is left to the parents’ initiatives to provide the training and exposure. So, the result is not surprising. We routinely turn a blind eye toward this science and math apathy in the foundational years of school. Our public school education system is failing at the foundation and here we are trying to paint the roof with a desired proportion of colors. To paraphrase Thomas L. Friedman, we are rapidly racing ourselves to the bottom.

The crap shoot approach being proposed for TJ admissions would amount to nothing but diluting the quality of an exemplary school and, in fact, would lead to reverse-discrimination of excluding the top students with a genuine STEM passion by subjecting them to a game of chance. Of course, there is no NAACP or politician championing for the top STEM students, because it is not politically sexy and doesn’t get votes. The argument that the FCPS Superintendent offered in favor of this lottery system is that certain families spend about $15,000 in test prep. This argument is ludicrous, at best. Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money? In a similar vein to the lottery-based admission to a STEM school, would the school and college athletics programs also adopt a lottery system? After all, parents spend a lot of money on sports camps and training athletes to be competitive. Professional NBA is made of 74% Blacks, 23% White, 1.8% Latino and 0.2% Asian players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_NBA). Similarly, NFL has 70% Blacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_players_in_professional_American_football). Are these numbers representative of our demographic? Why aren’t we addressing that?

Returning to the issue of our hometown, there is a sensible and meaningful solution to the TJ situation: If the goal is to have a certain percentage/number of preferred inclusion of the underrepresented groups, why not carve out the desired fraction of admissions in each class exclusively for the underrepresented groups? Let's say a class has 500 students, and a 20% representation (or pick whatever distribution that fancies the bean counters) of the underrepresented groups is desired. This means that 100 of the spots would be dedicated to the underrepresented population. Among the 100, the target may be 40 Black, 30 Hispanic, 30 other underrepresented groups. Then, admit the top scorers in the admissions test, teacher recommendations, SIS essays within the respective groups – in our example, the top 40 among all Black applicants, the top 30 among all Hispanic applicants and the top 30 among the other underrepresented groups. The remaining 400 is open to all other groups – Asians, Whites and anyone else. This will ensure that each class will have exactly the same demographic proportion desired and the politicians can win elections touting their dedication to diversity. This is still merit based and will be rewarding the top STEM students than leaving their fate to a game of chance. It is a win-all solution.

Is anyone listening?

While I agree that many teachers who teach math in elementary schools do not specialize in math and do not love it, let me be brief about the rest. The current math test has been compromised and does not select the most talented students. There is a pandemic, so in-person testing of any kind is not possible this year (and stop refering to SAT testing and such, they are all optional this year and do not determine anyone’s admission to universities). The amount of parental involvement in extracurricular STEM activities like Science Fair is overwhelming and is used to pad SIS essays. The test preparation allows less talented students to crowd out more talented ones because speed matters in these standardized tests, so being familiar with the format and the types of questions is a huge advantage. Done.

[Anonymous]

“ Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money?”

Because I thought the intent of TJ was to serve the kids that “need” that crazy tough program not that have won a prize by preparing hard enough to get there.

As to the quotas approach - something specifically race based like that is illegal.

[Anonymous]

This kind of quota is illegal, which is unfortunate in some ways because it is the only honest way to address the issue. Pure merit would be my preferred approach, but transparent racial quota would be better than all the disingenuous BS that surrounds the issue now. Diversity means that you need to have a racial spoils system of some sort, might as well be open about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money?”

Because I thought the intent of TJ was to serve the kids that “need” that crazy tough program not that have won a prize by preparing hard enough to get there.

As to the quotas approach - something specifically race based like that is illegal.

Mainly because it unfairly benefits the wealthy, not the gifted. It also leans more to admitting kids whose parents care more about them going to TJ rather than the kids.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, when I hire a musician for a band, I should hire one who never prepared him/her self so that shows who has the talent? Preparation for what you plan to do for your next gig in life is required. Do whatever you have to do to be prepared for anything and everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In reading about the FCPS' frenzied, half-assed approach to revamping TJ admissions, it seems to me that the proposed merit-based lottery system is an inane solution to addressing diversity. More alarmingly, it is detrimental to the quality of a high school that refreshingly has a rigorous curriculum and a high standard. For a change, we have a school that is competitive with what would be routine in other countries.

If only our Middle Schools and Elementary Schools had such high standards, we would be building a strong foundation in the children from early on for all demographics, and not be in this situation. On the contrary, look at the number elementary school teachers who teach Math and Science who actually have a STEM background – they may be counted on the one hand. In other countries, elementary school Math is taught by someone with math expertise and the Science teacher has a science background. The data in this survey -- https://www.sreb.org/blog-post/giving-elementary-teachers-tools-teach-math-well -- is quite telling: only 3% of elementary school teachers have a degree in Math or Math Education. It is appalling that anyone in this country can become an elementary school teacher with only a teacher certification. Most of them are liberal arts majors, with no clear understanding of Math or Science concepts themselves and, sadly, with an expressed dislike for Math and Science. What kind of passion can you expect them to instill in our children? As a result, most of our elementary school education is focused on social studies and the soft subjects, with only lip service to Science and Math. Much of the math and science education, therefore, is left to the parents’ initiatives to provide the training and exposure. So, the result is not surprising. We routinely turn a blind eye toward this science and math apathy in the foundational years of school. Our public school education system is failing at the foundation and here we are trying to paint the roof with a desired proportion of colors. To paraphrase Thomas L. Friedman, we are rapidly racing ourselves to the bottom.

The crap shoot approach being proposed for TJ admissions would amount to nothing but diluting the quality of an exemplary school and, in fact, would lead to reverse-discrimination of excluding the top students with a genuine STEM passion by subjecting them to a game of chance. Of course, there is no NAACP or politician championing for the top STEM students, because it is not politically sexy and doesn’t get votes. The argument that the FCPS Superintendent offered in favor of this lottery system is that certain families spend about $15,000 in test prep. This argument is ludicrous, at best. Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money? In a similar vein to the lottery-based admission to a STEM school, would the school and college athletics programs also adopt a lottery system? After all, parents spend a lot of money on sports camps and training athletes to be competitive. Professional NBA is made of 74% Blacks, 23% White, 1.8% Latino and 0.2% Asian players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_NBA). Similarly, NFL has 70% Blacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_players_in_professional_American_football). Are these numbers representative of our demographic? Why aren’t we addressing that?

Returning to the issue of our hometown, there is a sensible and meaningful solution to the TJ situation: If the goal is to have a certain percentage/number of preferred inclusion of the underrepresented groups, why not carve out the desired fraction of admissions in each class exclusively for the underrepresented groups? Let's say a class has 500 students, and a 20% representation (or pick whatever distribution that fancies the bean counters) of the underrepresented groups is desired. This means that 100 of the spots would be dedicated to the underrepresented population. Among the 100, the target may be 40 Black, 30 Hispanic, 30 other underrepresented groups. Then, admit the top scorers in the admissions test, teacher recommendations, SIS essays within the respective groups – in our example, the top 40 among all Black applicants, the top 30 among all Hispanic applicants and the top 30 among the other underrepresented groups. The remaining 400 is open to all other groups – Asians, Whites and anyone else. This will ensure that each class will have exactly the same demographic proportion desired and the politicians can win elections touting their dedication to diversity. This is still merit based and will be rewarding the top STEM students than leaving their fate to a game of chance. It is a win-all solution.

Is anyone listening?

Of course this is the most effective and least disruptive solution. Everyone is on board increasing URM enrollment. They can easily use the holistic application as it is today to increase the URM enrollment without publicizing a quota. Colleges do it all the time. But since this is FCPS, they must throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In reading about the FCPS' frenzied, half-assed approach to revamping TJ admissions, it seems to me that the proposed merit-based lottery system is an inane solution to addressing diversity. More alarmingly, it is detrimental to the quality of a high school that refreshingly has a rigorous curriculum and a high standard. For a change, we have a school that is competitive with what would be routine in other countries.

If only our Middle Schools and Elementary Schools had such high standards, we would be building a strong foundation in the children from early on for all demographics, and not be in this situation. On the contrary, look at the number elementary school teachers who teach Math and Science who actually have a STEM background – they may be counted on the one hand. In other countries, elementary school Math is taught by someone with math expertise and the Science teacher has a science background. The data in this survey -- https://www.sreb.org/blog-post/giving-elementary-teachers-tools-teach-math-well -- is quite telling: only 3% of elementary school teachers have a degree in Math or Math Education. It is appalling that anyone in this country can become an elementary school teacher with only a teacher certification. Most of them are liberal arts majors, with no clear understanding of Math or Science concepts themselves and, sadly, with an expressed dislike for Math and Science. What kind of passion can you expect them to instill in our children? As a result, most of our elementary school education is focused on social studies and the soft subjects, with only lip service to Science and Math. Much of the math and science education, therefore, is left to the parents’ initiatives to provide the training and exposure. So, the result is not surprising. We routinely turn a blind eye toward this science and math apathy in the foundational years of school. Our public school education system is failing at the foundation and here we are trying to paint the roof with a desired proportion of colors. To paraphrase Thomas L. Friedman, we are rapidly racing ourselves to the bottom.

The crap shoot approach being proposed for TJ admissions would amount to nothing but diluting the quality of an exemplary school and, in fact, would lead to reverse-discrimination of excluding the top students with a genuine STEM passion by subjecting them to a game of chance. Of course, there is no NAACP or politician championing for the top STEM students, because it is not politically sexy and doesn’t get votes. The argument that the FCPS Superintendent offered in favor of this lottery system is that certain families spend about $15,000 in test prep. This argument is ludicrous, at best. Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money? In a similar vein to the lottery-based admission to a STEM school, would the school and college athletics programs also adopt a lottery system? After all, parents spend a lot of money on sports camps and training athletes to be competitive. Professional NBA is made of 74% Blacks, 23% White, 1.8% Latino and 0.2% Asian players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_NBA). Similarly, NFL has 70% Blacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_players_in_professional_American_football). Are these numbers representative of our demographic? Why aren’t we addressing that?

Returning to the issue of our hometown, there is a sensible and meaningful solution to the TJ situation: If the goal is to have a certain percentage/number of preferred inclusion of the underrepresented groups, why not carve out the desired fraction of admissions in each class exclusively for the underrepresented groups? Let's say a class has 500 students, and a 20% representation (or pick whatever distribution that fancies the bean counters) of the underrepresented groups is desired. This means that 100 of the spots would be dedicated to the underrepresented population. Among the 100, the target may be 40 Black, 30 Hispanic, 30 other underrepresented groups. Then, admit the top scorers in the admissions test, teacher recommendations, SIS essays within the respective groups – in our example, the top 40 among all Black applicants, the top 30 among all Hispanic applicants and the top 30 among the other underrepresented groups. The remaining 400 is open to all other groups – Asians, Whites and anyone else. This will ensure that each class will have exactly the same demographic proportion desired and the politicians can win elections touting their dedication to diversity. This is still merit based and will be rewarding the top STEM students than leaving their fate to a game of chance. It is a win-all solution.

Is anyone listening?

No FCPS is not listening. Hopefully your children are all already enrolled because future classes are not going to be that impressive.

[Anonymous]

I think you all are so focused on admissions that you don’t understand the real impact of lack of diversity on the TJ experience. A lottery takes out the “you only got in because you’re black or Hispanic” AND the “you are a cheating, prepping Asian if you got in”. TJ has a lot of issues involving race, and the approaches over the years have not worked. It’s time to try something else.

[Anonymous]

No, I'm not listening. It's a PUBLIC school that should be serving the needs of all children. The kids that will potentially be left out of the school from prepping -- they are still going to be successful in STEM fields because base schools offer good programs as well. I want my tax dollars educating ALL children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, I'm not listening. It's a PUBLIC school that should be serving the needs of all children. The kids that will potentially be left out of the school from prepping -- they are still going to be successful in STEM fields because base schools offer good programs as well. I want my tax dollars educating ALL children.

It's a GOVERNOR'S school, that is specifically not designed to serve the needs of all children.

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/governors_school_programs/

[Anonymous]

If its a public school that is supposed to be open to all children, then why are they discriminating against dumb kids with bad grades?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If its a public school that is supposed to be open to all children, then why are they discriminating against dumb kids with bad grades?

It's a school for the gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you all are so focused on admissions that you don’t understand the real impact of lack of diversity on the TJ experience. A lottery takes out the “you only got in because you’re black or Hispanic” AND the “you are a cheating, prepping Asian if you got in”. TJ has a lot of issues involving race, and the approaches over the years have not worked. It’s time to try something else.

No it will now be you ruined the best high school the country and you only got in through lottery because you can’t get in through the front door on merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In reading about the FCPS' frenzied, half-assed approach to revamping TJ admissions, it seems to me that the proposed merit-based lottery system is an inane solution to addressing diversity. More alarmingly, it is detrimental to the quality of a high school that refreshingly has a rigorous curriculum and a high standard. For a change, we have a school that is competitive with what would be routine in other countries.

If only our Middle Schools and Elementary Schools had such high standards, we would be building a strong foundation in the children from early on for all demographics, and not be in this situation. On the contrary, look at the number elementary school teachers who teach Math and Science who actually have a STEM background – they may be counted on the one hand. In other countries, elementary school Math is taught by someone with math expertise and the Science teacher has a science background. The data in this survey -- https://www.sreb.org/blog-post/giving-elementary-teachers-tools-teach-math-well -- is quite telling: only 3% of elementary school teachers have a degree in Math or Math Education. It is appalling that anyone in this country can become an elementary school teacher with only a teacher certification. Most of them are liberal arts majors, with no clear understanding of Math or Science concepts themselves and, sadly, with an expressed dislike for Math and Science. What kind of passion can you expect them to instill in our children? As a result, most of our elementary school education is focused on social studies and the soft subjects, with only lip service to Science and Math. Much of the math and science education, therefore, is left to the parents’ initiatives to provide the training and exposure. So, the result is not surprising. We routinely turn a blind eye toward this science and math apathy in the foundational years of school. Our public school education system is failing at the foundation and here we are trying to paint the roof with a desired proportion of colors. To paraphrase Thomas L. Friedman, we are rapidly racing ourselves to the bottom.

The crap shoot approach being proposed for TJ admissions would amount to nothing but diluting the quality of an exemplary school and, in fact, would lead to reverse-discrimination of excluding the top students with a genuine STEM passion by subjecting them to a game of chance. Of course, there is no NAACP or politician championing for the top STEM students, because it is not politically sexy and doesn’t get votes. The argument that the FCPS Superintendent offered in favor of this lottery system is that certain families spend about $15,000 in test prep. This argument is ludicrous, at best. Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money? In a similar vein to the lottery-based admission to a STEM school, would the school and college athletics programs also adopt a lottery system? After all, parents spend a lot of money on sports camps and training athletes to be competitive. Professional NBA is made of 74% Blacks, 23% White, 1.8% Latino and 0.2% Asian players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_NBA). Similarly, NFL has 70% Blacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_players_in_professional_American_football). Are these numbers representative of our demographic? Why aren’t we addressing that?

Returning to the issue of our hometown, there is a sensible and meaningful solution to the TJ situation: If the goal is to have a certain percentage/number of preferred inclusion of the underrepresented groups, why not carve out the desired fraction of admissions in each class exclusively for the underrepresented groups? Let's say a class has 500 students, and a 20% representation (or pick whatever distribution that fancies the bean counters) of the underrepresented groups is desired. This means that 100 of the spots would be dedicated to the underrepresented population. Among the 100, the target may be 40 Black, 30 Hispanic, 30 other underrepresented groups. Then, admit the top scorers in the admissions test, teacher recommendations, SIS essays within the respective groups – in our example, the top 40 among all Black applicants, the top 30 among all Hispanic applicants and the top 30 among the other underrepresented groups. The remaining 400 is open to all other groups – Asians, Whites and anyone else. This will ensure that each class will have exactly the same demographic proportion desired and the politicians can win elections touting their dedication to diversity. This is still merit based and will be rewarding the top STEM students than leaving their fate to a game of chance. It is a win-all solution.

Is anyone listening?

Of course this is the most effective and least disruptive solution. Everyone is on board increasing URM enrollment. They can easily use the holistic application as it is today to increase the URM enrollment without publicizing a quota. Colleges do it all the time. But since this is FCPS, they must throw the baby out with the bath water.

And because they can crap on Asians without a political blowback. Cowards.