A Solution to the TJ Lottery Madness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is racist it should be all Asian.

Okay, let’s eliminate ALL prep courses and see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money?”

Because I thought the intent of TJ was to serve the kids that “need” that crazy tough program not that have won a prize by preparing hard enough to get there.

As to the quotas approach - something specifically race based like that is illegal.

Mainly because it unfairly benefits the wealthy, not the gifted. It also leans more to admitting kids whose parents care more about them going to TJ rather than the kids.

Yes, exactly. Unfortunately, we will never even become aware of many gifted students due to the wealth disparity. I have actually experienced this first hand as a student. Many of my wealthier classmates paid for every prep class under the sun, and as a result most were accepted into the colleges, law schools, and grad schools of their choices. Growing up, I was not wealthy, I never took a prep course and still ended up fairly successful, though not as successful as my wealthy classmates. Most who prepped honestly weren’t exceptional students in any way, but are now attorneys or PhDs. Even as a HS student , I felt sadness envy that my friends were able to afford prep classes, while I had to just study my ass off and hope for the best. The prepping obviously gave them an edge over everyone who didn’t have the same advantages. It’s completely unfair, and anyone who fails to realize this either has their head in the sand or simply doesn’t care because it will never affect them. Well, just realize that you are basically paying to excel at these standardized tests. I would just love to see the results without any prep courses.

Whites are the most wealthy in this country by a mile. Not even close.

I am white and I grew up in poverty. My minority friends’ families had way more money than my family. It’s convenient to believe that all white people are wealthy isn’t it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some may say it’s not only the wealthy students who are taking prep courses, and that may be true, but at least those students have parents who are willing and able to encourage and somehow afford these courses. What about the kids whose parents don’t give a hoot? They may be gifted, but no one cares! They are unfairly competing with mediocre kids who have been prepping since kindergarten. Don’t you get it?! You are paying to play, you are fooling yourself if you believe your kids could achieve much, if any, of this without prepping. Yes, very similar to some athletes, which is equally as toxic and disgusting. I think over the past 20 or so years we have taken on a different type of attitude regarding education. In the not so distant past, there was more integrity revolving around academics, this prepping nonsense would have been frowned upon and rightfully so. This is not how our educational system should function, it’s dishonest and ruthless.

Many Asians sacrifice a lot to come to this country, then yet again to educate their kids, living in tight quarters and conditions and without vacations. For many, English is not their first language. Who are you to say this is unfair. It is unfair for you to think this. Diversity programs for career advancement exist in college and at work. But very few are for Asians. Read the discrimination against Asian post.

For some it is not a matter of ruthlessness but survival. For Asians there are less safety nets and many have memories of even more poverty than what can be imagined in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money?”

Because I thought the intent of TJ was to serve the kids that “need” that crazy tough program not that have won a prize by preparing hard enough to get there.

As to the quotas approach - something specifically race based like that is illegal.

Mainly because it unfairly benefits the wealthy, not the gifted. It also leans more to admitting kids whose parents care more about them going to TJ rather than the kids.

Yes, exactly. Unfortunately, we will never even become aware of many gifted students due to the wealth disparity. I have actually experienced this first hand as a student. Many of my wealthier classmates paid for every prep class under the sun, and as a result most were accepted into the colleges, law schools, and grad schools of their choices. Growing up, I was not wealthy, I never took a prep course and still ended up fairly successful, though not as successful as my wealthy classmates. Most who prepped honestly weren’t exceptional students in any way, but are now attorneys or PhDs. Even as a HS student , I felt sadness envy that my friends were able to afford prep classes, while I had to just study my ass off and hope for the best. The prepping obviously gave them an edge over everyone who didn’t have the same advantages. It’s completely unfair, and anyone who fails to realize this either has their head in the sand or simply doesn’t care because it will never affect them. Well, just realize that you are basically paying to excel at these standardized tests. I would just love to see the results without any prep courses.

Whites are the most wealthy in this country by a mile. Not even close.

I am white and I grew up in poverty. My minority friends’ families had way more money than my family. It’s convenient to believe that all white people are wealthy isn’t it?

No it isn’t convenient. But the statistics don’t lie.

https://usafacts.org/articles/white-people-own-86-wealth-despite-making-60-population/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some may say it’s not only the wealthy students who are taking prep courses, and that may be true, but at least those students have parents who are willing and able to encourage and somehow afford these courses. What about the kids whose parents don’t give a hoot? They may be gifted, but no one cares! They are unfairly competing with mediocre kids who have been prepping since kindergarten. Don’t you get it?! You are paying to play, you are fooling yourself if you believe your kids could achieve much, if any, of this without prepping. Yes, very similar to some athletes, which is equally as toxic and disgusting. I think over the past 20 or so years we have taken on a different type of attitude regarding education. In the not so distant past, there was more integrity revolving around academics, this prepping nonsense would have been frowned upon and rightfully so. This is not how our educational system should function, it’s dishonest and ruthless.

Many Asians sacrifice a lot to come to this country, then yet again to educate their kids, living in tight quarters and conditions and without vacations. For many, English is not their first language. Who are you to say this is unfair. It is unfair for you to think this. Diversity programs for career advancement exist in college and at work. But very few are for Asians. Read the discrimination against Asian post.

For some it is not a matter of ruthlessness but survival. For Asians there are less safety nets and many have memories of even more poverty than what can be imagined in this country.

The Asian children are at an advantage because they have parents who are willing to do whatever it takes for their children to succeed. Keep in mind there are many intelligent children of other races whose parents simply don’t care. Don’t fool yourself into believing that Asians are more intelligent than everyone else, the kids’ success is largely due to the parents and the parents only. That’s great that Asians have such cut throat parents, lucky them, I guess? Have you seen and experienced poor and/or rural America? It’s no cake walk.

[Anonymous]

Your suggestion is not constitutional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money?”

Because I thought the intent of TJ was to serve the kids that “need” that crazy tough program not that have won a prize by preparing hard enough to get there.

As to the quotas approach - something specifically race based like that is illegal.

Mainly because it unfairly benefits the wealthy, not the gifted. It also leans more to admitting kids whose parents care more about them going to TJ rather than the kids.

Yes, exactly. Unfortunately, we will never even become aware of many gifted students due to the wealth disparity. I have actually experienced this first hand as a student. Many of my wealthier classmates paid for every prep class under the sun, and as a result most were accepted into the colleges, law schools, and grad schools of their choices. Growing up, I was not wealthy, I never took a prep course and still ended up fairly successful, though not as successful as my wealthy classmates. Most who prepped honestly weren’t exceptional students in any way, but are now attorneys or PhDs. Even as a HS student , I felt sadness envy that my friends were able to afford prep classes, while I had to just study my ass off and hope for the best. The prepping obviously gave them an edge over everyone who didn’t have the same advantages. It’s completely unfair, and anyone who fails to realize this either has their head in the sand or simply doesn’t care because it will never affect them. Well, just realize that you are basically paying to excel at these standardized tests. I would just love to see the results without any prep courses.

Whites are the most wealthy in this country by a mile. Not even close.

I am white and I grew up in poverty. My minority friends’ families had way more money than my family. It’s convenient to believe that all white people are wealthy isn’t it?

No it isn’t convenient. But the statistics don’t lie.

https://usafacts.org/articles/white-people-own-86-wealth-despite-making-60-population/

There is still a huge chunk of “white people” who are below average to dirt, poverty level poor. They aren’t benefiting from any advantages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your suggestion is not constitutional.

To eliminate all prep courses is not against the constitution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Why is preparing for a test a dirty word? How is this different from preparing for any standardized test? How is this different from training for a sport or a music competition, where parents do spend a lot of money?”

Because I thought the intent of TJ was to serve the kids that “need” that crazy tough program not that have won a prize by preparing hard enough to get there.

As to the quotas approach - something specifically race based like that is illegal.

Mainly because it unfairly benefits the wealthy, not the gifted. It also leans more to admitting kids whose parents care more about them going to TJ rather than the kids.

Yes, exactly. Unfortunately, we will never even become aware of many gifted students due to the wealth disparity. I have actually experienced this first hand as a student. Many of my wealthier classmates paid for every prep class under the sun, and as a result most were accepted into the colleges, law schools, and grad schools of their choices. Growing up, I was not wealthy, I never took a prep course and still ended up fairly successful, though not as successful as my wealthy classmates. Most who prepped honestly weren’t exceptional students in any way, but are now attorneys or PhDs. Even as a HS student , I felt sadness envy that my friends were able to afford prep classes, while I had to just study my ass off and hope for the best. The prepping obviously gave them an edge over everyone who didn’t have the same advantages. It’s completely unfair, and anyone who fails to realize this either has their head in the sand or simply doesn’t care because it will never affect them. Well, just realize that you are basically paying to excel at these standardized tests. I would just love to see the results without any prep courses.

Whites are the most wealthy in this country by a mile. Not even close.

I am white and I grew up in poverty. My minority friends’ families had way more money than my family. It’s convenient to believe that all white people are wealthy isn’t it?

No it isn’t convenient. But the statistics don’t lie.

https://usafacts.org/articles/white-people-own-86-wealth-despite-making-60-population/


[/quote
In what other country in the entire world would you be able to simply move to, succeed and purchase property? We have been an established nation for hundreds of years now, we were founded by white Christians, sorry, but that has been our culture here since it originated.

[Anonymous]

The ignorance in these threads is appalling.

You can be living in poverty and *still* have privilege due to your race/ethnicity. A poor white child is not looked with the same negative stereotypes as a poor Black child, for example. Racial profiling is not based on income. And Asians are not racially profiled the way Black people are. The fact is that Asians do not receive the level of discrimination from systemic racism that Black and Hispanic people do. To ignore the data that exists on this matter is foolish and irresponsible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ignorance in these threads is appalling.

You can be living in poverty and *still* have privilege due to your race/ethnicity. A poor white child is not looked with the same negative stereotypes as a poor Black child, for example. Racial profiling is not based on income. And Asians are not racially profiled the way Black people are. The fact is that Asians do not receive the level of discrimination from systemic racism that Black and Hispanic people do. To ignore the data that exists on this matter is foolish and irresponsible.

I don’t disagree, however we aren’t really talking racial profiling here. There are disadvantaged kids of every race who are highly intelligent and deserve an equal chance at a great education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should also get rid of medical school admissions test and use a lottery system for admissions to medical schools because not all test takers can prep equally for that test. Lottery for all.

Medical school admissions tests should be held to a higher standard than a regular HS admissions test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should also get rid of medical school admissions test and use a lottery system for admissions to medical schools because not all test takers can prep equally for that test. Lottery for all.

Medical school admissions tests should be held to a higher standard than a regular HS admissions test.

TJ is not a regular HS. It’s an advanced Science and Technology HS created to serve the highly gifted students in NoVa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should also get rid of medical school admissions test and use a lottery system for admissions to medical schools because not all test takers can prep equally for that test. Lottery for all.

Medical school admissions tests should be held to a higher standard than a regular HS admissions test.

TJ is not a regular HS. It’s an advanced Science and Technology HS created to serve the highly gifted students in NoVa.

Average intelligence of TJ student would be higher than the average intelligence of an average Med school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should also get rid of medical school admissions test and use a lottery system for admissions to medical schools because not all test takers can prep equally for that test. Lottery for all.

Medical school admissions tests should be held to a higher standard than a regular HS admissions test.

TJ is not a regular HS. It’s an advanced Science and Technology HS created to serve the highly gifted students in NoVa.

Average intelligence of TJ student would be higher than the average intelligence of an average Med school.

Could you prove this? And I think we need to hold people who will be responsible for our lives to a higher standard than competitive teenaged HS students.