A Solution to the TJ Lottery Madness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should also get rid of medical school admissions test and use a lottery system for admissions to medical schools because not all test takers can prep equally for that test. Lottery for all.

Medical school admissions tests should be held to a higher standard than a regular HS admissions test.

TJ is not a regular HS. It’s an advanced Science and Technology HS created to serve the highly gifted students in NoVa.

Well, actually, it was created as a marketing tool to pitch Fairfax County to defense contractors in the Reagan era, because the county had a high school with a low enrollment and some office parks with no tenants.

[Anonymous]

This whole discussion does point out how awful our schools are. Not awful as in "failing to educate" perhaps, but definitely awful as "only the top high school is considered competitive internationally".

I grew up in Western Europe and benefited from a free and excellent education. It is a strange realization that this is not an option for most Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion does point out how awful our schools are. Not awful as in "failing to educate" perhaps, but definitely awful as "only the top high school is considered competitive internationally".

I grew up in Western Europe and benefited from a free and excellent education. It is a strange realization that this is not an option for most Americans.

In Western Europe do they offer prep courses for every single standardized test? These courses have aided in broadening the preexisting chasm amongst students. It may be legal, but it isn’t fair. Ruthless helicopter parents and obsessive prepping don’t always yield successful gifted students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion does point out how awful our schools are. Not awful as in "failing to educate" perhaps, but definitely awful as "only the top high school is considered competitive internationally".

I grew up in Western Europe and benefited from a free and excellent education. It is a strange realization that this is not an option for most Americans.

In Western Europe do they offer prep courses for every single standardized test? These courses have aided in broadening the preexisting chasm amongst students. It may be legal, but it isn’t fair. Ruthless helicopter parents and obsessive prepping don’t always yield successful gifted students.

We have lot of tests in this country and enormous unfairness including singling out this particular TJ test out of dozens of tests and singling out Asians to discriminate.

[Anonymous]

These aren’t necessarily all gifted students. They are robotic professional test takers Did all if these kids show signs of being gifted as toddlers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion does point out how awful our schools are. Not awful as in "failing to educate" perhaps, but definitely awful as "only the top high school is considered competitive internationally".

I grew up in Western Europe and benefited from a free and excellent education. It is a strange realization that this is not an option for most Americans.

Many of the top schools in FCPS do much better than schools in Europe on the PALS test.

The issue with TJ is a bunch of Asians worried they made the wrong decision coming to this country if their kids don’t outscore students in Singapore or Seoul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion does point out how awful our schools are. Not awful as in "failing to educate" perhaps, but definitely awful as "only the top high school is considered competitive internationally".

I grew up in Western Europe and benefited from a free and excellent education. It is a strange realization that this is not an option for most Americans.

In Western Europe do they offer prep courses for every single standardized test? These courses have aided in broadening the preexisting chasm amongst students. It may be legal, but it isn’t fair. Ruthless helicopter parents and obsessive prepping don’t always yield successful gifted students.

We have lot of tests in this country and enormous unfairness including singling out this particular TJ test out of dozens of tests and singling out Asians to discriminate.

It has nothing to do with Asians, but everything to do with people of all races working the system to one’s advantage. If we are to truly weed out the unqualified students, and discover raw talent/genius, we need to completely level the playing field. Anything else is skewed.

[Anonymous]

We don't want to outscore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ignorance in these threads is appalling.

You can be living in poverty and *still* have privilege due to your race/ethnicity. A poor white child is not looked with the same negative stereotypes as a poor Black child, for example. Racial profiling is not based on income. And Asians are not racially profiled the way Black people are. The fact is that Asians do not receive the level of discrimination from systemic racism that Black and Hispanic people do. To ignore the data that exists on this matter is foolish and irresponsible.

Are you kidding me? White privilege, just like wealth, is head and shoulders above that of the any of other groups in this society. The lottery shoots down Asians and helps Whites, the most privileged group in this country. Practically no Asian has not been teased by the color of their skin, slanted eyes, funny pronunciation, meek attitudes, weak physique, etc. Many have jumped across oceans and continents to flee their own kinds of discrimination at home and frankly speaking a lot more poverty than exists here. Asians go to good schools, but society ignores them for promotion to management positions or positions of political power even compared to Blacks and Hispanics. Don’t try to make this as something to help Blacks and Hispanics. Whites, the group that has the most privileges, not only in this country, but across the entire globe are being helped in a nontrivial manner at the expense of Asians in this case. That is the data. This is exactly how minorities in different countries have been suppressed in world history.

[Anonymous]

Instead of a lottery or test, have the students submit a portfolio for evaluation. Starting in 6th grade, every grades assignment has an optional TJ question. This is for in class assignments and take home assignments. Students (and parents/teachers) can choose to answer the question or not. Questions are developed and graded by the newly formed TJ Selection Committee. Or even better, by an automated grading system based on a predefined and shared rubric. Each graded assignment is awarded points.

When it’s time to admit the incoming freshman the top scorers are admitted based on the number of seats available. You could even use 6th and 7th grade as optional prep yrs and only count 8th grade scores.

Students who are interested will do the extra work. TJ can see which students can handle the rigor. If a student is preping, the graded in class assignments will show who is getting extra help. Middle school teachers can help those students whose parents can’t afford to pay for prep. They could create a TJ Club and offer a teacher extra money the same way the soccer coach is given extra money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These aren’t necessarily all gifted students. They are robotic professional test takers Did all if these kids show signs of being gifted as toddlers?

Are you advocating for elimination of all tests in this country for any public schools or colleges? Stop your racist stereotypes. You want to be equal opportunity racist and spread similar racial stereotypes for blacks as well or are you too cowardly for such?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion does point out how awful our schools are. Not awful as in "failing to educate" perhaps, but definitely awful as "only the top high school is considered competitive internationally".

I grew up in Western Europe and benefited from a free and excellent education. It is a strange realization that this is not an option for most Americans.

In Western Europe do they offer prep courses for every single standardized test? These courses have aided in broadening the preexisting chasm amongst students. It may be legal, but it isn’t fair. Ruthless helicopter parents and obsessive prepping don’t always yield successful gifted students.

We have lot of tests in this country and enormous unfairness including singling out this particular TJ test out of dozens of tests and singling out Asians to discriminate.

It has nothing to do with Asians, but everything to do with people of all races working the system to one’s advantage. If we are to truly weed out the unqualified students, and discover raw talent/genius, we need to completely level the playing field. Anything else is skewed.

Ok then. Let’s institute a lottery system for all similar situations but you will only want to agree with a policy that discriminate against Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion does point out how awful our schools are. Not awful as in "failing to educate" perhaps, but definitely awful as "only the top high school is considered competitive internationally".

I grew up in Western Europe and benefited from a free and excellent education. It is a strange realization that this is not an option for most Americans.

In Western Europe do they offer prep courses for every single standardized test? These courses have aided in broadening the preexisting chasm amongst students. It may be legal, but it isn’t fair. Ruthless helicopter parents and obsessive prepping don’t always yield successful gifted students.

We have lot of tests in this country and enormous unfairness including singling out this particular TJ test out of dozens of tests and singling out Asians to discriminate.

It has nothing to do with Asians, but everything to do with people of all races working the system to one’s advantage. If we are to truly weed out the unqualified students, and discover raw talent/genius, we need to completely level the playing field. Anything else is skewed.

Ok then. Let’s institute a lottery system for all similar situations but you will only want to agree with a policy that discriminate against Asians.

No, let’s create and implement exams that can only be prepped for by studying on one’s own. No extra help, no prep courses. If these are gifted children, this shouldn’t be an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion does point out how awful our schools are. Not awful as in "failing to educate" perhaps, but definitely awful as "only the top high school is considered competitive internationally".

I grew up in Western Europe and benefited from a free and excellent education. It is a strange realization that this is not an option for most Americans.

In Western Europe do they offer prep courses for every single standardized test? These courses have aided in broadening the preexisting chasm amongst students. It may be legal, but it isn’t fair. Ruthless helicopter parents and obsessive prepping don’t always yield successful gifted students.

We have lot of tests in this country and enormous unfairness including singling out this particular TJ test out of dozens of tests and singling out Asians to discriminate.

It has nothing to do with Asians, but everything to do with people of all races working the system to one’s advantage. If we are to truly weed out the unqualified students, and discover raw talent/genius, we need to completely level the playing field. Anything else is skewed.

Ok then. Let’s institute a lottery system for all similar situations but you will only want to agree with a policy that discriminate against Asians.

This is not a terrible idea, as long as we have a really solid understanding of the fact that the only "similar situations" involve classroom educational opportunities like TJ that have an overwhelming number of applicants who are qualified to engage with that opportunity and limited space to handle those applicants. Sports teams, job applications, elected officials.... those are not similar situations in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These aren’t necessarily all gifted students. They are robotic professional test takers Did all if these kids show signs of being gifted as toddlers?

Are you advocating for elimination of all tests in this country for any public schools or colleges? Stop your racist stereotypes. You want to be equal opportunity racist and spread similar racial stereotypes for blacks as well or are you too cowardly for such?

Answer this question, did these kids show signs of giftedness as toddlers? FWIW there are equal numbers of white people working the system.