ECNL moving to school year part 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a copy and paste from a notice sent out by US Club. Well it’s a document a friend sent me but read the bottom pretty interesting….


2026/2027 Age Grouping Rationale
• Transitioning to an 8/1-7/31 age grouping is a return to the former grouping prior to 2017. Calendar birth year was mandated by US Soccer when most youth soccer was previously using school age.
The mandate has been removed, allowing US Club Soccer member organizations the ability to group players as they see fit.
The majority of youth soccer is non-competitive/recreational. The benefits of youth sport participation are numerous, but USYS/US Club team members feel that the social elements are some of the most important.
• While using the calendar birth year age grouping we heard frequently from families asking for their children to play with their classmates.
Using the school year grouping creates the fewest trapped players.
US feels that school year grouping promotes stronger team chemistry and retention by allowing children to play with their schoolmates and closest friends.
Grouping by school year often places players in a more consistent emotional and physical developmental environment.
School age grouping will help college recruitment as it allows for players of the same graduating class participating together in high-level tournament cups and college showcase matches.

Don’t let the August hater read this.

So there was fire. US Club going graduation year on tournament cups and college showcase matches.

Not necessarily as this could just mean by aligning most kids with their grade it makes the process easier for college recruiting. Nothing more or less.

Aligning kids with their grade is grad year.

Colleges don't recruit groups and batches.
A team being grouped by school grade is irrelevant.

They recruit individuals. Most of who contact the recruiters themselves and provide all their information

This is true and not true. Either way if you're aligned and playing on the correct grade in school team recruiting is much easier. You're playing on the best fields and at the best times to be seen. Among several other things.

Probably why US Club going with graduating class participating together in high-level tournament cups and college showcase matches but not for the regular season.

What you're describing is GY its what happens in HS soccer.

There is no intent by anyone to do GY in club soccer. No matter how much you want your kid to play down against 36 month younger players.

US Club going with graduating class participating together in high-level tournament cups and college showcase matches but not for the regular season isn't something I want or don't want. It is what it is.

I want SY with Aug birthdays playing on the team thats their grade on school.

What you're describing is GY its what happens in HS soccer.

There is no intent by anyone to do GY in club soccer. No matter how much you want your Sept girl to play down against 36 month younger players.

[Anonymous]

Hand up - how many actual posters are in this thread? Are there 2 people going back and forth 300x for these 600 pages because it seems like it. Is there any chance of talking about other aspects of the age change EXCEPT for the 2 posters who can't stop?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a copy and paste from a notice sent out by US Club. Well it’s a document a friend sent me but read the bottom pretty interesting….


2026/2027 Age Grouping Rationale
• Transitioning to an 8/1-7/31 age grouping is a return to the former grouping prior to 2017. Calendar birth year was mandated by US Soccer when most youth soccer was previously using school age.
The mandate has been removed, allowing US Club Soccer member organizations the ability to group players as they see fit.
The majority of youth soccer is non-competitive/recreational. The benefits of youth sport participation are numerous, but USYS/US Club team members feel that the social elements are some of the most important.
• While using the calendar birth year age grouping we heard frequently from families asking for their children to play with their classmates.
Using the school year grouping creates the fewest trapped players.
US feels that school year grouping promotes stronger team chemistry and retention by allowing children to play with their schoolmates and closest friends.
Grouping by school year often places players in a more consistent emotional and physical developmental environment.
School age grouping will help college recruitment as it allows for players of the same graduating class participating together in high-level tournament cups and college showcase matches.

Don’t let the August hater read this.

So there was fire. US Club going graduation year on tournament cups and college showcase matches.

Not necessarily as this could just mean by aligning most kids with their grade it makes the process easier for college recruiting. Nothing more or less.

Aligning kids with their grade is grad year.

Colleges don't recruit groups and batches.
A team being grouped by school grade is irrelevant.

They recruit individuals. Most of who contact the recruiters themselves and provide all their information

This is true and not true. Either way if you're aligned and playing on the correct grade in school team recruiting is much easier. You're playing on the best fields and at the best times to be seen. Among several other things.

You're obviously just posting these comments to get a reaction

Pity all the other folks haven't figured that out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hand up - how many actual posters are in this thread? Are there 2 people going back and forth 300x for these 600 pages because it seems like it. Is there any chance of talking about other aspects of the age change EXCEPT for the 2 posters who can't stop?

I’m from California NorCal specifically and I’m not either of those people. So at least 3.

I would assume it’s only 5-8 people because most have left at this point because 8/1 it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

They said they won't.

College coaches evaluate players based on their performance, development, and potential—not the exact age grouping of their club team.

https://www.eastsidefc.org/agegroups

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

They said they won't.

College coaches evaluate players based on their performance, development, and potential—not the exact age grouping of their club team.

https://www.eastsidefc.org/agegroups

But everyone knows that they will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

IF you really think grade is the thing to best make recruiting work, they should go full GY. That's would be the MOST optimal for college coaches. And if a kid can't compete with holdbacks, they're probably not college recruit material anyway.

BUT that's not what youth soccer wants, so coaches understand there will ALWAYS be misaligned players.

Coaches who cast off players who might be misaligned do so at their own loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

Nice judgemental attack on someone nice enough to present their situation and respond to your question. That's a clown move on your part.

Nacho kid, nacho problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

They said they won't.

College coaches evaluate players based on their performance, development, and potential—not the exact age grouping of their club team.

https://www.eastsidefc.org/agegroups

But everyone knows that they will.

No, you are the one who made up the lie. On an anon forum you stand no chance of convincing someone of something that appears very incorrect without any proof. So nobody has fallen for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

Nice judgemental attack on someone nice enough to present their situation and respond to your question. That's a clown move on your part.

Nacho kid, nacho problem.

Obviously you dont want to accept reality.

Playing on a grade down team sets players up for being held back when they get older so grade and level in club are aligned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

IF you really think grade is the thing to best make recruiting work, they should go full GY. That's would be the MOST optimal for college coaches. And if a kid can't compete with holdbacks, they're probably not college recruit material anyway.

BUT that's not what youth soccer wants, so coaches understand there will ALWAYS be misaligned players.

Coaches who cast off players who might be misaligned do so at their own loss.

Nobody wants 36 month older players on their team.

Sorry GY is not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

Nice judgemental attack on someone nice enough to present their situation and respond to your question. That's a clown move on your part.

Nacho kid, nacho problem.

Obviously you dont want to accept reality.

Playing on a grade down team sets players up for being held back when they get older so grade and level in club are aligned.

Nobody wants 36 month older players on their team.

Sorry GY is not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its just ridiculious reading what age guy writes because its all so obvious that his end goal is older players (36 months older) playing against correct age players.

Always looking to steal accomplishments from younger players.

No one is pushing for 36 month age groupings. You’re the only one pushing for kids to play up based on grade.

12 months is it. Anyone who wants to play up can if they are able and the club will allow it.

If play downs / holdbacks are allowed they will be potentially 36 months older than the youngest correct grade player.

This is because HS allows players to be held back 2 times.

Fear mongering alert. Going with a 12 month age window for league play solves this, whoops already done.

I have a misaligned August player and hoping they can play on age. But league games don't seem as important as tournaments and showcases. If showcases are going graduation year this will be a challenge for those who are misaligned.

Can you be a little more clear about what you're excited about? With an August birthday you potentially have 2 different outcomes depending on when your school starts.

If your school starts Sept 1st this means your Aug birthday kid will be a grade up in school than all the players on the team when we switch from BY to SY. Your kid will go from playing on a team with players a grade older (BY) to a team with players a grade younger (SY).

Most people in this situation will choose to play their kid "up" on the correct grade in school team so they’re no longer misaligned.

Being the oldest instead of the youngest means more touches on the ball, more leadership opportunities, more opportunities to be the one taking free kicks, better highlight reel, playing on a smaller field for longer resulting in more touches.

More touches means more development.

And college coahes will ignore you because you're a grade older playing on a grade down team.

They said they won't.

College coaches evaluate players based on their performance, development, and potential—not the exact age grouping of their club team.

https://www.eastsidefc.org/agegroups

But everyone knows that they will.

No, you are the one who made up the lie. On an anon forum you stand no chance of convincing someone of something that appears very incorrect without any proof. So nobody has fallen for it.

Typical fear-mongering from this poster. If you're concerned, talk to your club and coach and college coaches at places you're interested in for your kid. It's a fair question, but those people will guide you better than extreme anonymous posters.