Remote school? No vaccine for under 12 until mid-winter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a huge opposition to 100% remote school.

Indeed, as there should be, since most adults in our area are vaccinated and children can wear masks in school.

The question is: how will the kids eat lunch indoors? This will be the daily spreader event. I strongly advise all schools to buy those plexiglass or hard plastic partitions and install them on lunch tables. They're better than nothing and were used to great effect in Asian schools last year.

they aren’t “better than nothing.” they interfere with air flow.

[Anonymous]

Can classrooms have the same air quality in the sense of air replacement frequency, in the fall and winter as they've had in the spring?
Can students have all meals and snacks outdoors in the fall and winter?
Last year didn't have delta. I doubt plexiglass partitions would help with the delta variant.

If we are thinking of the health of students, we are not concerned with hospitalizations and deaths from the covid infections, but we are concerned with the proportion of post-covid symptoms, i.e. long-covid, in kids who've had asymptomatic infections.

Basically, are we ok with a couple hundred DCPS kids having debilitating long-covid for a few years, because socialization is important and because in-person school is better than distance learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can classrooms have the same air quality in the sense of air replacement frequency, in the fall and winter as they've had in the spring?
Can students have all meals and snacks outdoors in the fall and winter?
Last year didn't have delta. I doubt plexiglass partitions would help with the delta variant.

If we are thinking of the health of students, we are not concerned with hospitalizations and deaths from the covid infections, but we are concerned with the proportion of post-covid symptoms, i.e. long-covid, in kids who've had asymptomatic infections.

Basically, are we ok with a couple hundred DCPS kids having debilitating long-covid for a few years, because socialization is important and because in-person school is better than distance learning?

Please show us the studies, real studies with control groups, that show such a high risk of long Covid for kids as you suggest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can classrooms have the same air quality in the sense of air replacement frequency, in the fall and winter as they've had in the spring?
Can students have all meals and snacks outdoors in the fall and winter?
Last year didn't have delta. I doubt plexiglass partitions would help with the delta variant.

If we are thinking of the health of students, we are not concerned with hospitalizations and deaths from the covid infections, but we are concerned with the proportion of post-covid symptoms, i.e. long-covid, in kids who've had asymptomatic infections.

Basically, are we ok with a couple hundred DCPS kids having debilitating long-covid for a few years, because socialization is important and because in-person school is better than distance learning?

Please show us the studies, real studies with control groups, that show such a high risk of long Covid for kids as you suggest.

Yeah, show me Doc's time travel DeLorean and I'll drive to 2024 and back with some rough preliminary data study for you.

[Anonymous]

People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can classrooms have the same air quality in the sense of air replacement frequency, in the fall and winter as they've had in the spring?
Can students have all meals and snacks outdoors in the fall and winter?
Last year didn't have delta. I doubt plexiglass partitions would help with the delta variant.

If we are thinking of the health of students, we are not concerned with hospitalizations and deaths from the covid infections, but we are concerned with the proportion of post-covid symptoms, i.e. long-covid, in kids who've had asymptomatic infections.

Basically, are we ok with a couple hundred DCPS kids having debilitating long-covid for a few years, because socialization is important and because in-person school is better than distance learning?

Please show us the studies, real studies with control groups, that show such a high risk of long Covid for kids as you suggest.

Yeah, show me Doc's time travel DeLorean and I'll drive to 2024 and back with some rough preliminary data study for you.

depriving kids of school is much worse than “long covid.” we know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

you can’t have a controlled study of long covid for obvious reasons. but the research is pretty clear for now that “long covid” in kids isn’t significant. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782164

and yes, the available research pretty clearly shows schools are safe. if you really are worried let’s talk about mandatory teacher and staff vaccination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

you can’t have a controlled study of long covid for obvious reasons. but the research is pretty clear for now that “long covid” in kids isn’t significant. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782164

and yes, the available research pretty clearly shows schools are safe. if you really are worried let’s talk about mandatory teacher and staff vaccination.

No, the research is emphatically not "pretty clear for now" on the prevalence of long covid in kids.
JAMA just had to retract a quack paper that claimed masks are harmful to kids.

I am not about to be reassured about the risk of kid long covid by a JAMA research letter showing "only" 4 out of 109 positive kids had long covid symptoms at the 3 months mark, when positive in October 2020 (i.e. not delta). That tells me SO very little, particularly in the context of many far more concerning reports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

you can’t have a controlled study of long covid for obvious reasons. but the research is pretty clear for now that “long covid” in kids isn’t significant. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782164

and yes, the available research pretty clearly shows schools are safe. if you really are worried let’s talk about mandatory teacher and staff vaccination.

No, the research is emphatically not "pretty clear for now" on the prevalence of long covid in kids.
JAMA just had to retract a quack paper that claimed masks are harmful to kids.

I am not about to be reassured about the risk of kid long covid by a JAMA research letter showing "only" 4 out of 109 positive kids had long covid symptoms at the 3 months mark, when positive in October 2020 (i.e. not delta). That tells me SO very little, particularly in the context of many far more concerning reports.

you can stay inside forever. everyone involved in children’s health and educational policy recognizes schools need to stay open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

you can’t have a controlled study of long covid for obvious reasons. but the research is pretty clear for now that “long covid” in kids isn’t significant. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782164

and yes, the available research pretty clearly shows schools are safe. if you really are worried let’s talk about mandatory teacher and staff vaccination.

No, the research is emphatically not "pretty clear for now" on the prevalence of long covid in kids.
JAMA just had to retract a quack paper that claimed masks are harmful to kids.

I am not about to be reassured about the risk of kid long covid by a JAMA research letter showing "only" 4 out of 109 positive kids had long covid symptoms at the 3 months mark, when positive in October 2020 (i.e. not delta). That tells me SO very little, particularly in the context of many far more concerning reports.

Same poster. Also note:
if all of DCPS crams itself back into school buildings through the 2021-22 winter,
- with single-digit vaccination rates of currently eligible students seen in the poorer wards,
- higher vaccination rates in the wealthier wards,
- only able to vaccinate the elementary students mid-winter, fully vaccinating them by late-winter/early-spring,
- if we don't set up protocols for outdoor lunch/snacks
- if we don't set up asymptomatic testing more serious than what was done last school year,
- seeing how infection rates are creeping up consistently in the district right,

It would be reasonable to expect 10% of the 51,000 DCPS students to catch covid over the first two quarters.
Even if only 4% of infected kids went on to have long-covid, we'd have the 200 long-covid students number I threw out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

you can’t have a controlled study of long covid for obvious reasons. but the research is pretty clear for now that “long covid” in kids isn’t significant. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782164

and yes, the available research pretty clearly shows schools are safe. if you really are worried let’s talk about mandatory teacher and staff vaccination.

No, the research is emphatically not "pretty clear for now" on the prevalence of long covid in kids.
JAMA just had to retract a quack paper that claimed masks are harmful to kids.

I am not about to be reassured about the risk of kid long covid by a JAMA research letter showing "only" 4 out of 109 positive kids had long covid symptoms at the 3 months mark, when positive in October 2020 (i.e. not delta). That tells me SO very little, particularly in the context of many far more concerning reports.

Same poster. Also note:
if all of DCPS crams itself back into school buildings through the 2021-22 winter,
- with single-digit vaccination rates of currently eligible students seen in the poorer wards,
- higher vaccination rates in the wealthier wards,
- only able to vaccinate the elementary students mid-winter, fully vaccinating them by late-winter/early-spring,
- if we don't set up protocols for outdoor lunch/snacks
- if we don't set up asymptomatic testing more serious than what was done last school year,
- seeing how infection rates are creeping up consistently in the district right,

It would be reasonable to expect 10% of the 51,000 DCPS students to catch covid over the first two quarters.
Even if only 4% of infected kids went on to have long-covid, we'd have the 200 long-covid students number I threw out there.

10%? Did school districts that were open last winter have these rates? What are you using to make this estimate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

False equivalence.

Regarding spread in schools, what we did have were solid contact tracing studies in other countries that showed that cases that were diagnosed outside of school didn't originate or spread there. We also had plenty of testing, in this country and abroad, of school contacts, and again we didn't see even many close contacts within the school getting infected, even without masks in many cases abroad. That leaves me reassured that in school spread is rare. I don't demand zero risk.

Our knowledge of this situation is based on much more data than what some people think they know about long Covid in kids. Those few studies involved asking about a long list of common symptoms 6 weeks after their illness (not asymptomatic infection), without a control group. There is no evidence to assume that those symptoms were debilitating or wouldn't resolve over a longer period of time. You are right, we don't have a time machine, but for now there is nothing to indicate that we would end up with a large number of chronically debilitated kids, especially from asymptomatic infection. There were millions of kids infected with Covid over the past year and a half all over the world, and so far, there is no epidemic of debilitated kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

you can’t have a controlled study of long covid for obvious reasons. but the research is pretty clear for now that “long covid” in kids isn’t significant. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782164

and yes, the available research pretty clearly shows schools are safe. if you really are worried let’s talk about mandatory teacher and staff vaccination.

No, the research is emphatically not "pretty clear for now" on the prevalence of long covid in kids.
JAMA just had to retract a quack paper that claimed masks are harmful to kids.

I am not about to be reassured about the risk of kid long covid by a JAMA research letter showing "only" 4 out of 109 positive kids had long covid symptoms at the 3 months mark, when positive in October 2020 (i.e. not delta). That tells me SO very little, particularly in the context of many far more concerning reports.

Are you talking about studies, or anecdotal reports on the news?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

you can’t have a controlled study of long covid for obvious reasons. but the research is pretty clear for now that “long covid” in kids isn’t significant. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782164

and yes, the available research pretty clearly shows schools are safe. if you really are worried let’s talk about mandatory teacher and staff vaccination.

You could absolutely have at least a controlled study within the time frame we are dealing with right now. If they are asking a hundred kids with previous Covid about their symptoms after six weeks, it wouldn't be so hard to ask another 100 kids without Covid if they experience the same rate of runny noses and fatigue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People yelled: "Science says covid isn't transmitted in school!!" based on odd this-is-what-we-got, half-assed indirect interpretation of barely related, laughably incomplete data, without a single actual study with widespread systematic asymptomatic testing of all students.

The same people are now demanding "studies, real studies with control groups" before they even consider the risk of long-covid in kids.

you can’t have a controlled study of long covid for obvious reasons. but the research is pretty clear for now that “long covid” in kids isn’t significant. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782164

and yes, the available research pretty clearly shows schools are safe. if you really are worried let’s talk about mandatory teacher and staff vaccination.

No, the research is emphatically not "pretty clear for now" on the prevalence of long covid in kids.
JAMA just had to retract a quack paper that claimed masks are harmful to kids.

I am not about to be reassured about the risk of kid long covid by a JAMA research letter showing "only" 4 out of 109 positive kids had long covid symptoms at the 3 months mark, when positive in October 2020 (i.e. not delta). That tells me SO very little, particularly in the context of many far more concerning reports.

The PP wasn't talking about the long Covid research. She was talking about the risk of transmission in schools.