Capitol Hill Middle School and High School situation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RE: OPs questions about how Charters fit in to all of this.

Charters are fairly new to the party, but very important. They here in 1996 after the School Reform Act passed in 1995.

Prior to Charter schools being legalized in DC, parents of all races who were seeking an alternative to their assigned neighborhood school practiced "school choice" in other ways.

What did this look like?:

It looked like many families using the Out of Boundary lottery to gain spots into a feeder system from elementary--->middle--->High School.

It looked like students heading to the upper northwest school that fed into Hardy or Deal and then to Wilson.

It looked like families from east of the Anacostia River ( and Maryland, don't forget Maryland ) using all the unused spots at Capitol Hill Elementary Schools or at Eastern High School, all considered better than their assigned schools and convenient to federal jobs downtown.

It looked like white and black Capitol Hill Parents forming the Cluster Schools here on Ward 6: Peabody--->Watkins---->Stuart Hobson---->Magnet HS or private

It looked like families forming a magnet Montessori program called Capitol Hill Montessori

It looked like families forming a Reggio Emilia early childhood program within Peabody called "School within a School"

It looked like families starting the Spanish Immersion Program at Tyler Elementary

It looked like a de-facto STEM magnet program at Jefferson Middle School that was extremely well-regarded by many Black families in the city and was eventually peeled off its normal feeder system to feed to....Wilson HS ( crazy, but it was only recently changed to Eastern).

It looked like a number of White and Black Capitol Hill families sending their children through Out of Boundary slots to Key Elementary in Georgetown which fed to Hardy MS and then Wilson HS.

It looked like the excellent magnet High Schools Ellington, SWW and Banneker.

So families in DC who had the interest and where-with-all to navigate it, there was always a degree of school choice within the DCPS system before charters.

During the 2000's a number of things happened at the same time:

1)the demographics on Capitol Hill began to shift toward more young families moving in and hoping to use the public schools

2) The School Reform movement gained steam including
-- the ability to form Charter Schools
--Universal free PK3 and PK4 began
--Michelle Rhee arrived with her broom
--many school closings

Suddenly, it was more difficult for families living outside the zone to get a spot at the Cluster Schools, or at Key Elementary.

Suddenly, there was free, full-time childcare for 3 and 4 year-olds at the neighborhood DCPS schools---a real draw for dual-income families in houses that were beginning to become ridiculously expensive.

With these pressures on the system, Capitol Hill parents simultaneously formed Brent Neighbors to build a bridge for in-boundary families to attend Brent ES AND many Capitol Hill families became involved on the ground floor of forming Two Rivers Public Charter School.

So the school choice options widened for Cap Hill parents beyond just the Cluster Schools or Key ES and this momentum built on itself as more Charter Schools appeared on the scene and more movements started at Maury, Ludlow-Taylor, Payne and JO Wilson for families living in those zones to use their in-boundary schools.

The momentum kept building, like a dialectic--more parents found options for educating their children in the public schools ( including Charter Schools ) so more families decided to stay and more families decided they could move in.

Now, city-wide, around 43% of public school children attend Charter Schools, and a larger percentage of children attend their in-boundary school ( at least in Ward 6/Capitol Hill).

How does this look at the Middle School level and High School level vis-a-vis Charters? Well, as those in-boundary little kids using Brent and Maury began to approach 3rd, 4th, 5th grade, parents began to wonder what the next step would be: Stuart Hobson? maybe--but slots weren't guaranteed, and maybe there was a better option out there somehow.

Parents began looking at Eliot-Hine and Jefferson, wondering if those were or could become good options for middle school, since they were the feeder middle schools for Maury and Brent, respectively.

Groups formed and began discussions with DCPS and Michelle Rhee about these feeder patterns and how these schools could "reform" to become desireable pulls for in-boundary families.

( That's a whole other story--but perhaps a digression )

At the same time as parents were sizing up Eliot-Hine and Jefferson with questions about Eastern HS ( which had a major reboot in that era ) on the high school horizon, parents began to look at Washington Latin--in Northwest as a promising option that would include middle AND high school solutions in one move.

Lots ( not all--Stuart Hobson was also drawing some---even Brent parents who hopped over to Watkins for the upper elementary grades to guarantee access in the feeder system) of Capitol Hill parents opted for Washington Latin, and soon after, BASIS opened downtown--so convenient--which also gave options for middle school and high school.

Then came DCI and Inspired Teaching and Montessori Bilingual... many of these Charter Schools began in 5th grade, so pulled those in-boundary fifth graders at the Capitol Hill Elementary Schools away before they considered seriously using Eliot-Hine or Jefferson.

Meanwhile--Two Rivers Charter School had a good hold on many Capitol Hill families and expanded through middle school. Now has opened a second campus.

And Washington Latin is set to open a second campus.

For sure, I've missed a lot of nuance and details and perspectives that others can fill in. It's not a neat, easy linear story and so difficult to sum up.

But here's the rub: Charter Schools have supplemented an informal school choice scenario that already existed and added to the positive momentum around public schooling in DC. The neighborhood schools are doing better than ever, and public school population in general has far better rates of success on measures like graduation rates, PARCC scores and NAEP scores.

All of this continues to evolve, and we have yet to see how the cataclysm of the pandemic will affect the public school landscape. It will have impacts, it's just unknowable at the moment what they will be.

We moved to the Hill young and way before kids -- 2006. I remember going to Argonaut and parents having dinner pushing us to send our unborn kids to Maury. This posters thread is the bible of Hill schools.

And where did you end up going for middle?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RE: OPs questions about how Charters fit in to all of this.

Charters are fairly new to the party, but very important. They here in 1996 after the School Reform Act passed in 1995.

Prior to Charter schools being legalized in DC, parents of all races who were seeking an alternative to their assigned neighborhood school practiced "school choice" in other ways.

What did this look like?:

It looked like many families using the Out of Boundary lottery to gain spots into a feeder system from elementary--->middle--->High School.

It looked like students heading to the upper northwest school that fed into Hardy or Deal and then to Wilson.

It looked like families from east of the Anacostia River ( and Maryland, don't forget Maryland ) using all the unused spots at Capitol Hill Elementary Schools or at Eastern High School, all considered better than their assigned schools and convenient to federal jobs downtown.

It looked like white and black Capitol Hill Parents forming the Cluster Schools here on Ward 6: Peabody--->Watkins---->Stuart Hobson---->Magnet HS or private

It looked like families forming a magnet Montessori program called Capitol Hill Montessori

It looked like families forming a Reggio Emilia early childhood program within Peabody called "School within a School"

It looked like families starting the Spanish Immersion Program at Tyler Elementary

It looked like a de-facto STEM magnet program at Jefferson Middle School that was extremely well-regarded by many Black families in the city and was eventually peeled off its normal feeder system to feed to....Wilson HS ( crazy, but it was only recently changed to Eastern).

It looked like a number of White and Black Capitol Hill families sending their children through Out of Boundary slots to Key Elementary in Georgetown which fed to Hardy MS and then Wilson HS.

It looked like the excellent magnet High Schools Ellington, SWW and Banneker.

So families in DC who had the interest and where-with-all to navigate it, there was always a degree of school choice within the DCPS system before charters.

During the 2000's a number of things happened at the same time:

1)the demographics on Capitol Hill began to shift toward more young families moving in and hoping to use the public schools

2) The School Reform movement gained steam including
-- the ability to form Charter Schools
--Universal free PK3 and PK4 began
--Michelle Rhee arrived with her broom
--many school closings

Suddenly, it was more difficult for families living outside the zone to get a spot at the Cluster Schools, or at Key Elementary.

Suddenly, there was free, full-time childcare for 3 and 4 year-olds at the neighborhood DCPS schools---a real draw for dual-income families in houses that were beginning to become ridiculously expensive.

With these pressures on the system, Capitol Hill parents simultaneously formed Brent Neighbors to build a bridge for in-boundary families to attend Brent ES AND many Capitol Hill families became involved on the ground floor of forming Two Rivers Public Charter School.

So the school choice options widened for Cap Hill parents beyond just the Cluster Schools or Key ES and this momentum built on itself as more Charter Schools appeared on the scene and more movements started at Maury, Ludlow-Taylor, Payne and JO Wilson for families living in those zones to use their in-boundary schools.

The momentum kept building, like a dialectic--more parents found options for educating their children in the public schools ( including Charter Schools ) so more families decided to stay and more families decided they could move in.

Now, city-wide, around 43% of public school children attend Charter Schools, and a larger percentage of children attend their in-boundary school ( at least in Ward 6/Capitol Hill).

How does this look at the Middle School level and High School level vis-a-vis Charters? Well, as those in-boundary little kids using Brent and Maury began to approach 3rd, 4th, 5th grade, parents began to wonder what the next step would be: Stuart Hobson? maybe--but slots weren't guaranteed, and maybe there was a better option out there somehow.

Parents began looking at Eliot-Hine and Jefferson, wondering if those were or could become good options for middle school, since they were the feeder middle schools for Maury and Brent, respectively.

Groups formed and began discussions with DCPS and Michelle Rhee about these feeder patterns and how these schools could "reform" to become desireable pulls for in-boundary families.

( That's a whole other story--but perhaps a digression )

At the same time as parents were sizing up Eliot-Hine and Jefferson with questions about Eastern HS ( which had a major reboot in that era ) on the high school horizon, parents began to look at Washington Latin--in Northwest as a promising option that would include middle AND high school solutions in one move.

Lots ( not all--Stuart Hobson was also drawing some---even Brent parents who hopped over to Watkins for the upper elementary grades to guarantee access in the feeder system) of Capitol Hill parents opted for Washington Latin, and soon after, BASIS opened downtown--so convenient--which also gave options for middle school and high school.

Then came DCI and Inspired Teaching and Montessori Bilingual... many of these Charter Schools began in 5th grade, so pulled those in-boundary fifth graders at the Capitol Hill Elementary Schools away before they considered seriously using Eliot-Hine or Jefferson.

Meanwhile--Two Rivers Charter School had a good hold on many Capitol Hill families and expanded through middle school. Now has opened a second campus.

And Washington Latin is set to open a second campus.

For sure, I've missed a lot of nuance and details and perspectives that others can fill in. It's not a neat, easy linear story and so difficult to sum up.

But here's the rub: Charter Schools have supplemented an informal school choice scenario that already existed and added to the positive momentum around public schooling in DC. The neighborhood schools are doing better than ever, and public school population in general has far better rates of success on measures like graduation rates, PARCC scores and NAEP scores.

All of this continues to evolve, and we have yet to see how the cataclysm of the pandemic will affect the public school landscape. It will have impacts, it's just unknowable at the moment what they will be.

We moved to the Hill young and way before kids -- 2006. I remember going to Argonaut and parents having dinner pushing us to send our unborn kids to Maury. This posters thread is the bible of Hill schools.

And where did you end up going for middle?

We get to make that decision in 6 months!

[Anonymous]

This post is fascinating. Thanks so much to the op for starting it. I truly appreciated the analysis previous posters gave about the history of charters and the hill and Dunbar. I'm an AA parent who lives in Trinidad. We absolutely love Trinidad. There are tons of diverse young families - whites, blacks, Asians and it's an incredibly close community. Many young families have been here longer than we have (we moved in in 2011 pre-kids) and many new young families are newer. Most families do not send their kids to Wheatley not necessarily because it's a k-8 (honestly that would be great if the education was strong). The issue with Wheatley which many of us only found out more recently is that it supports a large homeless population because we are close to NY Ave and the closest elementary school zoned for the many families thar are placed in the hotels in that area. What that means is the school has a larger lower SES profile and the issues that come with that. It could never be a school that largely reflects the neighborhood because a large percentage of kids outside the neighborhood feed into it with more challenging needs. I'm on my phone so will write a second post momentarily about our views on school options in the area.

[Anonymous]

Continuing my post (Trinidad AA parent). Please note I am only speaking for me and my family. We looked at many schools in the area for pk3 a few years ago. We ultimately decided to go to a parochial pk-8 in Brookland. We have two boys - a rising 2nd grader and a rising pk4er. We wanted a pk-8 school . That was a priority for us. We wanted an academically strong school. We wanted a school where families had similar values as we did. I think for us (and possibly many higher SES AA families) it's not race - its socioeconomic status and values. Honestly, I did not want to have to fight a system where my boys may be overlooked or have folks/educators assume things about them because of the color of their skin. We will fight for our kids as any family would but if I could eliminate preconceived biases and assumptions off the bat even better. I also wanted a smaller school where my kids would be known and their strengths and weaknesses would be identified. We were lucky in that we found that at our parochial school and have been thrilled with the education and school community. What would we have done had that not been an option? I really don't know. I think there were one or two charters we were willing to give a chance to. The likelihood is we would have looked at a more expensive privates and just committed our funds to that and less to savings. We were fortunate to have bought in Trinidad before prices went through the roof so we have some flexibility in terms of what we can allot to schooling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the entire student bodies doing at those schools, not just the white kids? I have asked about successful middle schools, not just schools where white kids can succeed. (and by white kids in DC I mean advantaged kids because, unlike many other places, most white kids in DC are children of educated parents that elect to live here)

You seem to be wanting it both ways.

You appear to concede that test results are largely a reflection of demographics. Yet you want to judge the success of a schools based on "entire student bodies" despite huge demographic disparities between schools.

I asked about successful middle schools and I did not limit it to the white kids. If you want the high performing non-white children to go there you better be able to show more than the white kids do well.

DC has done extremely well in early childhood education, why was that successful and their attempts improve middle schools mostly a failure?

DC has high performing magnet high schools and Wilson. Why is that? Why is Banneker such a huge success for AA students?

I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of "high performing."

Only 9.9 percent of black students at Wilson meet or exceed expectations for math. By contrast, at Jefferson, 18.3 of black students meet or exceed math expectations (and 33.7% meet or exceed ELA expectations).

So do you believe that Wilson is able to show that "more than white kids do well." How about Jefferson?

Whatever. It is possible to have a conversation without being aggressive and mean in your response. Why don't you try that and perhaps we can have a useful conversation.

I do not know Jefferson but there have been interesting posts after this one on the history of Capital Hill Schools.

The question posed in this thread was about the future of middle and high schools in Capital Hill so Wilson is not really in the mix, but it is considered a school that many families want to have their children attend. I will using it as an example of schools that families seek out for their children to attend, the phrase "high performing" was modifying the "magnet schools".

the question is why aren't the DCPS middle schools on Capital Hill improving in the same way that DCPS elementary schools have (and then high schools). My thinking is that it is due to the parents with choices taking alternative paths (DCPS lottery, Charters, moving) rather than sending their middle schoolers to schools they do not trust to educate their children. I personally do not see it as a racist thing but rather as a thing about parents of every race want the best for their children and will make choices accordingly based on what they can see objectively on school quality. The existence of choice makes it harder for the DCPS schools to demonstrate improvement because so many of their potential strong students are opting out, and each opt out makes sense on an individual basis.

I actually do not have a dog in this fight. My kids are at Deal and SWW. Believe it or not, when my children were babies people in my neighborhood were wary about Deal and Wilson and we had no plans to stay in our house past elementary school (although our neighbors of older teens and young adults had sent their children successfully through this path). Deal had a strong principal that put IB middle years program in place and went around selling it to all the feeder elementary schools, which were strong (just like so many hill elementary schools are strong), and now over 90% of the 5th graders at the strong feeders go to Deal, and most of them go on to Wilson. There were no real charter options in NWDC. Latin started out here but soon moved and there was a time when I was considering it for my kids over Deal.

Why has that not been replicated in Capital Hill?

[Anonymous]

Feeder patterns. Kids are zoned to three different middle schools, not one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the entire student bodies doing at those schools, not just the white kids? I have asked about successful middle schools, not just schools where white kids can succeed. (and by white kids in DC I mean advantaged kids because, unlike many other places, most white kids in DC are children of educated parents that elect to live here)

You seem to be wanting it both ways.

You appear to concede that test results are largely a reflection of demographics. Yet you want to judge the success of a schools based on "entire student bodies" despite huge demographic disparities between schools.

I asked about successful middle schools and I did not limit it to the white kids. If you want the high performing non-white children to go there you better be able to show more than the white kids do well.

DC has done extremely well in early childhood education, why was that successful and their attempts improve middle schools mostly a failure?

DC has high performing magnet high schools and Wilson. Why is that? Why is Banneker such a huge success for AA students?

I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of "high performing."

Only 9.9 percent of black students at Wilson meet or exceed expectations for math. By contrast, at Jefferson, 18.3 of black students meet or exceed math expectations (and 33.7% meet or exceed ELA expectations).

So do you believe that Wilson is able to show that "more than white kids do well." How about Jefferson?

Whatever. It is possible to have a conversation without being aggressive and mean in your response. Why don't you try that and perhaps we can have a useful conversation.

I do not know Jefferson but there have been interesting posts after this one on the history of Capital Hill Schools.

The question posed in this thread was about the future of middle and high schools in Capital Hill so Wilson is not really in the mix, but it is considered a school that many families want to have their children attend. I will using it as an example of schools that families seek out for their children to attend, the phrase "high performing" was modifying the "magnet schools".

the question is why aren't the DCPS middle schools on Capital Hill improving in the same way that DCPS elementary schools have (and then high schools). My thinking is that it is due to the parents with choices taking alternative paths (DCPS lottery, Charters, moving) rather than sending their middle schoolers to schools they do not trust to educate their children. I personally do not see it as a racist thing but rather as a thing about parents of every race want the best for their children and will make choices accordingly based on what they can see objectively on school quality. The existence of choice makes it harder for the DCPS schools to demonstrate improvement because so many of their potential strong students are opting out, and each opt out makes sense on an individual basis.

I actually do not have a dog in this fight. My kids are at Deal and SWW. Believe it or not, when my children were babies people in my neighborhood were wary about Deal and Wilson and we had no plans to stay in our house past elementary school (although our neighbors of older teens and young adults had sent their children successfully through this path). Deal had a strong principal that put IB middle years program in place and went around selling it to all the feeder elementary schools, which were strong (just like so many hill elementary schools are strong), and now over 90% of the 5th graders at the strong feeders go to Deal, and most of them go on to Wilson. There were no real charter options in NWDC. Latin started out here but soon moved and there was a time when I was considering it for my kids over Deal.

Why has that not been replicated in Capital Hill?

Because you had a bunch of strong elementary schools feeding into one middle school, whereas we have a bunch of strong middle schools feeding into THREE middle schools, and every time we try to change that, we get called racist.

[Anonymous]

And it's CapitOl Hill....no a

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the entire student bodies doing at those schools, not just the white kids? I have asked about successful middle schools, not just schools where white kids can succeed. (and by white kids in DC I mean advantaged kids because, unlike many other places, most white kids in DC are children of educated parents that elect to live here)

You seem to be wanting it both ways.

You appear to concede that test results are largely a reflection of demographics. Yet you want to judge the success of a schools based on "entire student bodies" despite huge demographic disparities between schools.

I asked about successful middle schools and I did not limit it to the white kids. If you want the high performing non-white children to go there you better be able to show more than the white kids do well.

DC has done extremely well in early childhood education, why was that successful and their attempts improve middle schools mostly a failure?

DC has high performing magnet high schools and Wilson. Why is that? Why is Banneker such a huge success for AA students?

I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of "high performing."

Only 9.9 percent of black students at Wilson meet or exceed expectations for math. By contrast, at Jefferson, 18.3 of black students meet or exceed math expectations (and 33.7% meet or exceed ELA expectations).

So do you believe that Wilson is able to show that "more than white kids do well." How about Jefferson?

Whatever. It is possible to have a conversation without being aggressive and mean in your response. Why don't you try that and perhaps we can have a useful conversation.

I do not know Jefferson but there have been interesting posts after this one on the history of Capital Hill Schools.

The question posed in this thread was about the future of middle and high schools in Capital Hill so Wilson is not really in the mix, but it is considered a school that many families want to have their children attend. I will using it as an example of schools that families seek out for their children to attend, the phrase "high performing" was modifying the "magnet schools".

the question is why aren't the DCPS middle schools on Capital Hill improving in the same way that DCPS elementary schools have (and then high schools). My thinking is that it is due to the parents with choices taking alternative paths (DCPS lottery, Charters, moving) rather than sending their middle schoolers to schools they do not trust to educate their children. I personally do not see it as a racist thing but rather as a thing about parents of every race want the best for their children and will make choices accordingly based on what they can see objectively on school quality. The existence of choice makes it harder for the DCPS schools to demonstrate improvement because so many of their potential strong students are opting out, and each opt out makes sense on an individual basis.

I actually do not have a dog in this fight. My kids are at Deal and SWW. Believe it or not, when my children were babies people in my neighborhood were wary about Deal and Wilson and we had no plans to stay in our house past elementary school (although our neighbors of older teens and young adults had sent their children successfully through this path). Deal had a strong principal that put IB middle years program in place and went around selling it to all the feeder elementary schools, which were strong (just like so many hill elementary schools are strong), and now over 90% of the 5th graders at the strong feeders go to Deal, and most of them go on to Wilson. There were no real charter options in NWDC. Latin started out here but soon moved and there was a time when I was considering it for my kids over Deal.

Why has that not been replicated in Capital Hill?

Because you had a bunch of strong elementary schools feeding into one middle school, whereas we have a bunch of strong middle schools feeding into THREE middle schools, and every time we try to change that, we get called racist.

Exactly. You could create a more diverse Deal that IB folks would buy into if you zoned all of the Hill school -- Brent, Maury, L-T, Watkins, Tyler, JOW, Payne & Miner (+/- SWS, depending on how you want to handle that; +/- Van Ness & Amidon-Bowen, which are Hill adjacent and currently feed into one of the three "Hill" schools, so could be included) -- into one giant MS a la Deal. Then you'd have a sizeable cohort of on grade level kids (largely coming from Brent/Maury/L-T & Watkins (& SWS & Van Ness, if included) to start with, but you'd probably also help the other schools keep their kids who peel off now in K/1/2/3 and so those schools would then also improve)... You could split the school between SH & EH and do something else with the Jefferson campus (since it's location is also a factor that makes it a harder sell for Hill parents; it's just not on (SH) or near (EH) the Hill like the other two).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the entire student bodies doing at those schools, not just the white kids? I have asked about successful middle schools, not just schools where white kids can succeed. (and by white kids in DC I mean advantaged kids because, unlike many other places, most white kids in DC are children of educated parents that elect to live here)

You seem to be wanting it both ways.

You appear to concede that test results are largely a reflection of demographics. Yet you want to judge the success of a schools based on "entire student bodies" despite huge demographic disparities between schools.

I asked about successful middle schools and I did not limit it to the white kids. If you want the high performing non-white children to go there you better be able to show more than the white kids do well.

DC has done extremely well in early childhood education, why was that successful and their attempts improve middle schools mostly a failure?

DC has high performing magnet high schools and Wilson. Why is that? Why is Banneker such a huge success for AA students?

I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of "high performing."

Only 9.9 percent of black students at Wilson meet or exceed expectations for math. By contrast, at Jefferson, 18.3 of black students meet or exceed math expectations (and 33.7% meet or exceed ELA expectations).

So do you believe that Wilson is able to show that "more than white kids do well." How about Jefferson?

Whatever. It is possible to have a conversation without being aggressive and mean in your response. Why don't you try that and perhaps we can have a useful conversation.

I do not know Jefferson but there have been interesting posts after this one on the history of Capital Hill Schools.

The question posed in this thread was about the future of middle and high schools in Capital Hill so Wilson is not really in the mix, but it is considered a school that many families want to have their children attend. I will using it as an example of schools that families seek out for their children to attend, the phrase "high performing" was modifying the "magnet schools".

the question is why aren't the DCPS middle schools on Capital Hill improving in the same way that DCPS elementary schools have (and then high schools). My thinking is that it is due to the parents with choices taking alternative paths (DCPS lottery, Charters, moving) rather than sending their middle schoolers to schools they do not trust to educate their children. I personally do not see it as a racist thing but rather as a thing about parents of every race want the best for their children and will make choices accordingly based on what they can see objectively on school quality. The existence of choice makes it harder for the DCPS schools to demonstrate improvement because so many of their potential strong students are opting out, and each opt out makes sense on an individual basis.

I actually do not have a dog in this fight. My kids are at Deal and SWW. Believe it or not, when my children were babies people in my neighborhood were wary about Deal and Wilson and we had no plans to stay in our house past elementary school (although our neighbors of older teens and young adults had sent their children successfully through this path). Deal had a strong principal that put IB middle years program in place and went around selling it to all the feeder elementary schools, which were strong (just like so many hill elementary schools are strong), and now over 90% of the 5th graders at the strong feeders go to Deal, and most of them go on to Wilson. There were no real charter options in NWDC. Latin started out here but soon moved and there was a time when I was considering it for my kids over Deal.

Why has that not been replicated in Capital Hill?

The bolded is obvious since you can't spell Capitol Hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the entire student bodies doing at those schools, not just the white kids? I have asked about successful middle schools, not just schools where white kids can succeed. (and by white kids in DC I mean advantaged kids because, unlike many other places, most white kids in DC are children of educated parents that elect to live here)

You seem to be wanting it both ways.

You appear to concede that test results are largely a reflection of demographics. Yet you want to judge the success of a schools based on "entire student bodies" despite huge demographic disparities between schools.

I asked about successful middle schools and I did not limit it to the white kids. If you want the high performing non-white children to go there you better be able to show more than the white kids do well.

DC has done extremely well in early childhood education, why was that successful and their attempts improve middle schools mostly a failure?

DC has high performing magnet high schools and Wilson. Why is that? Why is Banneker such a huge success for AA students?

I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of "high performing."

Only 9.9 percent of black students at Wilson meet or exceed expectations for math. By contrast, at Jefferson, 18.3 of black students meet or exceed math expectations (and 33.7% meet or exceed ELA expectations).

So do you believe that Wilson is able to show that "more than white kids do well." How about Jefferson?

Whatever. It is possible to have a conversation without being aggressive and mean in your response. Why don't you try that and perhaps we can have a useful conversation.

I do not know Jefferson but there have been interesting posts after this one on the history of Capital Hill Schools.

The question posed in this thread was about the future of middle and high schools in Capital Hill so Wilson is not really in the mix, but it is considered a school that many families want to have their children attend. I will using it as an example of schools that families seek out for their children to attend, the phrase "high performing" was modifying the "magnet schools".

the question is why aren't the DCPS middle schools on Capital Hill improving in the same way that DCPS elementary schools have (and then high schools). My thinking is that it is due to the parents with choices taking alternative paths (DCPS lottery, Charters, moving) rather than sending their middle schoolers to schools they do not trust to educate their children. I personally do not see it as a racist thing but rather as a thing about parents of every race want the best for their children and will make choices accordingly based on what they can see objectively on school quality. The existence of choice makes it harder for the DCPS schools to demonstrate improvement because so many of their potential strong students are opting out, and each opt out makes sense on an individual basis.

I actually do not have a dog in this fight. My kids are at Deal and SWW. Believe it or not, when my children were babies people in my neighborhood were wary about Deal and Wilson and we had no plans to stay in our house past elementary school (although our neighbors of older teens and young adults had sent their children successfully through this path). Deal had a strong principal that put IB middle years program in place and went around selling it to all the feeder elementary schools, which were strong (just like so many hill elementary schools are strong), and now over 90% of the 5th graders at the strong feeders go to Deal, and most of them go on to Wilson. There were no real charter options in NWDC. Latin started out here but soon moved and there was a time when I was considering it for my kids over Deal.

Why has that not been replicated in Capital Hill?

Because you had a bunch of strong elementary schools feeding into one middle school, whereas we have a bunch of strong middle schools feeding into THREE middle schools, and every time we try to change that, we get called racist.

Exactly. You could create a more diverse Deal that IB folks would buy into if you zoned all of the Hill school -- Brent, Maury, L-T, Watkins, Tyler, JOW, Payne & Miner (+/- SWS, depending on how you want to handle that; +/- Van Ness & Amidon-Bowen, which are Hill adjacent and currently feed into one of the three "Hill" schools, so could be included) -- into one giant MS a la Deal. Then you'd have a sizeable cohort of on grade level kids (largely coming from Brent/Maury/L-T & Watkins (& SWS & Van Ness, if included) to start with, but you'd probably also help the other schools keep their kids who peel off now in K/1/2/3 and so those schools would then also improve)... You could split the school between SH & EH and do something else with the Jefferson campus (since it's location is also a factor that makes it a harder sell for Hill parents; it's just not on (SH) or near (EH) the Hill like the other two).

Agreed and this was my point, until DCPS buys into the idea of feeder patterns that bring a prepared cohorts together, this problem will not change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the entire student bodies doing at those schools, not just the white kids? I have asked about successful middle schools, not just schools where white kids can succeed. (and by white kids in DC I mean advantaged kids because, unlike many other places, most white kids in DC are children of educated parents that elect to live here)

You seem to be wanting it both ways.

You appear to concede that test results are largely a reflection of demographics. Yet you want to judge the success of a schools based on "entire student bodies" despite huge demographic disparities between schools.

I asked about successful middle schools and I did not limit it to the white kids. If you want the high performing non-white children to go there you better be able to show more than the white kids do well.

DC has done extremely well in early childhood education, why was that successful and their attempts improve middle schools mostly a failure?

DC has high performing magnet high schools and Wilson. Why is that? Why is Banneker such a huge success for AA students?

I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of "high performing."

Only 9.9 percent of black students at Wilson meet or exceed expectations for math. By contrast, at Jefferson, 18.3 of black students meet or exceed math expectations (and 33.7% meet or exceed ELA expectations).

So do you believe that Wilson is able to show that "more than white kids do well." How about Jefferson?

Whatever. It is possible to have a conversation without being aggressive and mean in your response. Why don't you try that and perhaps we can have a useful conversation.

I do not know Jefferson but there have been interesting posts after this one on the history of Capital Hill Schools.

The question posed in this thread was about the future of middle and high schools in Capital Hill so Wilson is not really in the mix, but it is considered a school that many families want to have their children attend. I will using it as an example of schools that families seek out for their children to attend, the phrase "high performing" was modifying the "magnet schools".

the question is why aren't the DCPS middle schools on Capital Hill improving in the same way that DCPS elementary schools have (and then high schools). My thinking is that it is due to the parents with choices taking alternative paths (DCPS lottery, Charters, moving) rather than sending their middle schoolers to schools they do not trust to educate their children. I personally do not see it as a racist thing but rather as a thing about parents of every race want the best for their children and will make choices accordingly based on what they can see objectively on school quality. The existence of choice makes it harder for the DCPS schools to demonstrate improvement because so many of their potential strong students are opting out, and each opt out makes sense on an individual basis.

I actually do not have a dog in this fight. My kids are at Deal and SWW. Believe it or not, when my children were babies people in my neighborhood were wary about Deal and Wilson and we had no plans to stay in our house past elementary school (although our neighbors of older teens and young adults had sent their children successfully through this path). Deal had a strong principal that put IB middle years program in place and went around selling it to all the feeder elementary schools, which were strong (just like so many hill elementary schools are strong), and now over 90% of the 5th graders at the strong feeders go to Deal, and most of them go on to Wilson. There were no real charter options in NWDC. Latin started out here but soon moved and there was a time when I was considering it for my kids over Deal.

Why has that not been replicated in Capital Hill?

The bolded is obvious since you can't spell Capitol Hill.

Apologies, I was trying to be polite by spelling it out but you got me, I have never lived on the Hill. Lovely area. Have a nice day.

[Anonymous]

Would love to hear about the group of parents who got Spanish immersion started at Tyler - what year was that?

[Anonymous]

Hey folks, OP is here. I am so glad this thread is still going and by and large people have been super informative (thank you all so much!) and productive. But lets keep the focus on MS and HS options for CH and close-by neighborhoods (Trinidad, H Street, Hill East, Navy Yard, etc.). There are lots of resources on DCUM for people who want to discuss Deal/Wilson, but a lot less discussion of SH, E-H, Jefferson, and Eastern. Plus I've really appreciated the discussion regarding Dunbar (I had no idea of its history, I feel a lot more educated about my city now, thank you) and I've also really appreciated the commentary about other Ward 5 schools as well as private/parochial options.

Anyway, let's keep it civil and focused on CH and environs. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey folks, OP is here. I am so glad this thread is still going and by and large people have been super informative (thank you all so much!) and productive. But lets keep the focus on MS and HS options for CH and close-by neighborhoods (Trinidad, H Street, Hill East, Navy Yard, etc.). There are lots of resources on DCUM for people who want to discuss Deal/Wilson, but a lot less discussion of SH, E-H, Jefferson, and Eastern. Plus I've really appreciated the discussion regarding Dunbar (I had no idea of its history, I feel a lot more educated about my city now, thank you) and I've also really appreciated the commentary about other Ward 5 schools as well as private/parochial options.

Anyway, let's keep it civil and focused on CH and environs. Thanks!

Lol that you think you can police the conversation.