Capitol Hill Middle School and High School situation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:?? SWS is not known for supporting advanced learners. They are pretty transparent that they are geared to helping kids who struggle.

SWS is NOT geared to helping kids who struggle. I do not know where that lie came from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s not apples to apples unless you adjust for the population differentials. Jefferson has very few White kids while Deal is majority white. So percentages in that context are meaningless— if there are 4 white kids at Jefferson, then just one kid testing lower would take your percentage from 100 to 75.

For the record, if there were ONLY 4 kids at Jefferson, they wouldn't be able to report that data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the entire student bodies doing at those schools, not just the white kids? I have asked about successful middle schools, not just schools where white kids can succeed. (and by white kids in DC I mean advantaged kids because, unlike many other places, most white kids in DC are children of educated parents that elect to live here)

You seem to be wanting it both ways.

You appear to concede that test results are largely a reflection of demographics. Yet you want to judge the success of a schools based on "entire student bodies" despite huge demographic disparities between schools.

I asked about successful middle schools and I did not limit it to the white kids. If you want the high performing non-white children to go there you better be able to show more than the white kids do well.

DC has done extremely well in early childhood education, why was that successful and their attempts improve middle schools mostly a failure?

DC has high performing magnet high schools and Wilson. Why is that? Why is Banneker such a huge success for AA students?

I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of "high performing."

Only 9.9 percent of black students at Wilson meet or exceed expectations for math. By contrast, at Jefferson, 18.3 of black students meet or exceed math expectations (and 33.7% meet or exceed ELA expectations).

So do you believe that Wilson is able to show that "more than white kids do well." How about Jefferson?

+100

Please just say you really don't want your dear children around Black kids who are from EOTR (which is true at JA for all of the hang-wringing that goes on, on this site and beyond. There are plenty of OOB spaces.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey folks, OP is here. I am so glad this thread is still going and by and large people have been super informative (thank you all so much!) and productive. But lets keep the focus on MS and HS options for CH and close-by neighborhoods (Trinidad, H Street, Hill East, Navy Yard, etc.). There are lots of resources on DCUM for people who want to discuss Deal/Wilson, but a lot less discussion of SH, E-H, Jefferson, and Eastern. Plus I've really appreciated the discussion regarding Dunbar (I had no idea of its history, I feel a lot more educated about my city now, thank you) and I've also really appreciated the commentary about other Ward 5 schools as well as private/parochial options.

Anyway, let's keep it civil and focused on CH and environs. Thanks!

LOL There are endless ramblings about SH. It's a perennial punching bag for DCUM trolls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the entire student bodies doing at those schools, not just the white kids? I have asked about successful middle schools, not just schools where white kids can succeed. (and by white kids in DC I mean advantaged kids because, unlike many other places, most white kids in DC are children of educated parents that elect to live here)

You seem to be wanting it both ways.

You appear to concede that test results are largely a reflection of demographics. Yet you want to judge the success of a schools based on "entire student bodies" despite huge demographic disparities between schools.

I asked about successful middle schools and I did not limit it to the white kids. If you want the high performing non-white children to go there you better be able to show more than the white kids do well.

DC has done extremely well in early childhood education, why was that successful and their attempts improve middle schools mostly a failure?

DC has high performing magnet high schools and Wilson. Why is that? Why is Banneker such a huge success for AA students?

I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of "high performing."

Only 9.9 percent of black students at Wilson meet or exceed expectations for math. By contrast, at Jefferson, 18.3 of black students meet or exceed math expectations (and 33.7% meet or exceed ELA expectations).

So do you believe that Wilson is able to show that "more than white kids do well." How about Jefferson?

+100

Please just say you really don't want your dear children around Black kids who are from EOTR (which is true at JA for all of the hang-wringing that goes on, on this site and beyond. There are plenty of OOB spaces.)

+100 too. Exactly. These PPs are showing themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the entire student bodies doing at those schools, not just the white kids? I have asked about successful middle schools, not just schools where white kids can succeed. (and by white kids in DC I mean advantaged kids because, unlike many other places, most white kids in DC are children of educated parents that elect to live here)

You seem to be wanting it both ways.

You appear to concede that test results are largely a reflection of demographics. Yet you want to judge the success of a schools based on "entire student bodies" despite huge demographic disparities between schools.

I asked about successful middle schools and I did not limit it to the white kids. If you want the high performing non-white children to go there you better be able to show more than the white kids do well.

DC has done extremely well in early childhood education, why was that successful and their attempts improve middle schools mostly a failure?

DC has high performing magnet high schools and Wilson. Why is that? Why is Banneker such a huge success for AA students?

I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of "high performing."

Only 9.9 percent of black students at Wilson meet or exceed expectations for math. By contrast, at Jefferson, 18.3 of black students meet or exceed math expectations (and 33.7% meet or exceed ELA expectations).

So do you believe that Wilson is able to show that "more than white kids do well." How about Jefferson?

+100

Please just say you really don't want your dear children around Black kids who are from EOTR (which is true at JA for all of the hang-wringing that goes on, on this site and beyond. There are plenty of OOB spaces.)

+100 too. Exactly. These PPs are showing themselves.

Immediate PP here - one caveat is that Wilson is HS and Jefferson is MS, so perhaps the Deal to JA is the better comparator.

[Anonymous]

We are IB for Van Ness (and have been attending for many years) and are excited for Jefferson. Greg Dohmann is inspiring and the renovation that was just completed is gorgeous. They have a strong robotics team that competes which my older son especially is very excited about. Unsure what our plan for HS is at the moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are IB for Van Ness (and have been attending for many years) and are excited for Jefferson. Greg Dohmann is inspiring and the renovation that was just completed is gorgeous. They have a strong robotics team that competes which my older son especially is very excited about. Unsure what our plan for HS is at the moment.

Now that Van Ness is graduating classes, maybe it can be the bridge that eventually gets Brent kids to Jefferson. Van Ness at least has geography working in its favor (its somewhat closer to Jefferson than Brent & since VN isn't on the Hill, parents probably don't have the same psychic trouble thinking of Jefferson as a neighborhood school for them). Also Van Ness parents, by and large, don't have the same $$ as Brent parents and so don't have quite as many options. (I don't mean that in any negative way, just that Brent IB folks almost all have enough $$ that they don't *have* to make Jefferson work even if they strike out in the lottery; that is less true at Van Ness, where there is more economic diversity.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are IB for Van Ness (and have been attending for many years) and are excited for Jefferson. Greg Dohmann is inspiring and the renovation that was just completed is gorgeous. They have a strong robotics team that competes which my older son especially is very excited about. Unsure what our plan for HS is at the moment.

Now that Van Ness is graduating classes, maybe it can be the bridge that eventually gets Brent kids to Jefferson. Van Ness at least has geography working in its favor (its somewhat closer to Jefferson than Brent & since VN isn't on the Hill, parents probably don't have the same psychic trouble thinking of Jefferson as a neighborhood school for them). Also Van Ness parents, by and large, don't have the same $$ as Brent parents and so don't have quite as many options. (I don't mean that in any negative way, just that Brent IB folks almost all have enough $$ that they don't *have* to make Jefferson work even if they strike out in the lottery; that is less true at Van Ness, where there is more economic diversity.)

FWIW, I understand that several current Brent kids plan to head to Jefferson next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are IB for Van Ness (and have been attending for many years) and are excited for Jefferson. Greg Dohmann is inspiring and the renovation that was just completed is gorgeous. They have a strong robotics team that competes which my older son especially is very excited about. Unsure what our plan for HS is at the moment.

Now that Van Ness is graduating classes, maybe it can be the bridge that eventually gets Brent kids to Jefferson. Van Ness at least has geography working in its favor (its somewhat closer to Jefferson than Brent & since VN isn't on the Hill, parents probably don't have the same psychic trouble thinking of Jefferson as a neighborhood school for them). Also Van Ness parents, by and large, don't have the same $$ as Brent parents and so don't have quite as many options. (I don't mean that in any negative way, just that Brent IB folks almost all have enough $$ that they don't *have* to make Jefferson work even if they strike out in the lottery; that is less true at Van Ness, where there is more economic diversity.)

FWIW, I understand that several current Brent kids plan to head to Jefferson next year.

There’s always a couple, but it’s normally the OOB kids. 1 or 2 IB? The only one I know of who went 2 years ago actually left after 1 year. I think it’s a very different experience culturally after Brent.

[Anonymous]

^^ To be clear, I wouldn’t actually “blame” Jefferson for the Brent kid I’m talking about leaving. Brent is very hand-holdy in a lovely way for young ESers and has all the extra resources in the world. Jefferson is… not. Especially because the kids who end up there are usually ones who thought BASIS would be a bad fit, it can be rough.

[Anonymous]

The idea of one huge middle school a la Deal would definitely be appealing to many if not most Capitol Hill parents, but I also don't like the idea of sending my middle schooler to a middle school that big? There are a lot of cons in that situation. If NW had easy access to charters, I'm not sure everyone would be sending their kids to Deal either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The idea of one huge middle school a la Deal would definitely be appealing to many if not most Capitol Hill parents, but I also don't like the idea of sending my middle schooler to a middle school that big? There are a lot of cons in that situation. If NW had easy access to charters, I'm not sure everyone would be sending their kids to Deal either.

This. The overcrowding is a big issue that affects everything. Some NW parents in the Deal/Wilson feeder are opting to sending their kids to DCI BTW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think also there is this mentality among parents that their kid is the brightest, smartest most gifted child DCPS has ever seen. I'd argue the vast majority of kids turn out remarkably average, as do most adults. I don't know if its proximity to wealth or the high achieving nature of DC in general but everyone seems to their their 4 year old is gifted and needs the most academic rigorous school available. I do think there is something to being the star academically at a middle of the road school vs middle of the road at a great school where you don't stand out at all. I'm very "successful" on paper, first generation, attorney, bar admission in 2 states, work at a very desirable fintech and did not go to one remarkable school, if anything went to a pretty poor public school track. What I did have though...was some personality, the ability to network and seek out opportunities, a really diverse friend group and the initiative to just keep going. Several of my college friends went to Sidwell and other private prep schools, none of which have remarkable jobs today. I understand these are anecdotal but they've shaped my perspective on education. There is so much more to education than being at a school that is at an "acceptable" 60% or more rate of white kids or ensuring that your child has every possible advantage and AP class under their belt. From the person that turned out just fine and didn't take one AP class. I hope if you're happy with the quality of life on the hill that you invest in your community and local schools, sometimes it just takes a few and perhaps your kids would be just as happy and well off in the end.

I love your post and I think your advice is solid. Invest in your community and trust that there is growth and value in that experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think also there is this mentality among parents that their kid is the brightest, smartest most gifted child DCPS has ever seen. I'd argue the vast majority of kids turn out remarkably average, as do most adults. I don't know if its proximity to wealth or the high achieving nature of DC in general but everyone seems to their their 4 year old is gifted and needs the most academic rigorous school available. I do think there is something to being the star academically at a middle of the road school vs middle of the road at a great school where you don't stand out at all. I'm very "successful" on paper, first generation, attorney, bar admission in 2 states, work at a very desirable fintech and did not go to one remarkable school, if anything went to a pretty poor public school track. What I did have though...was some personality, the ability to network and seek out opportunities, a really diverse friend group and the initiative to just keep going. Several of my college friends went to Sidwell and other private prep schools, none of which have remarkable jobs today. I understand these are anecdotal but they've shaped my perspective on education. There is so much more to education than being at a school that is at an "acceptable" 60% or more rate of white kids or ensuring that your child has every possible advantage and AP class under their belt. From the person that turned out just fine and didn't take one AP class. I hope if you're happy with the quality of life on the hill that you invest in your community and local schools, sometimes it just takes a few and perhaps your kids would be just as happy and well off in the end.

I love your post and I think your advice is solid. Invest in your community and trust that there is growth and value in that experience.

There's a lot I agree with in his post. Yet, there's a lot of daylight between a "non-remarkable" or even "pretty poor public school," and some of the DC schools. As in, multiple gun incidents at the MS; large majorities of kids totally failing the PARCC (and some PARCCs with nobody passing at all) ... to deny this is to a certain extent deny the structural racism/income inequality that marks DC. PP is probably right in that most kids with privilege will do just fine; but that's BECAUSE of their privilege; not because of the school. I personally can't fault people who do not want to take their chances with that kind of institution. Because if covid taught me nothing else, it's that my child's education is 100% on me and I can't rely on the institution.