Capitol Hill Middle School and High School situation

[Anonymous]

Ok, I might regret this, but I can't figure out the answer to my question by searching old threads, and what I need is sort of the "inside scoop" that I can't get from official resources, and parents I talk to seem cagey about it. So I'm posting here, but I know this is a contentious issue and I'm just making a plea here for people to be civil.

Can someone, or a few someones, give me a rundown on what the deal is with middle schools on the Hill and adjacent areas? From what I've read on DCUM and heard in the neighborhood, there seem to be a variety of schools of thought, but all of them seem to have some underlying biases, and I'm just trying to get a more unfiltered viewpoint.

I have encountered people who think all middle school/high school options on the Hill are unacceptable, that "everyone" will wind up either moving, lotterying out, or sending their kids to private because these options are no good.

There also seems to be a school of thought that Stuart Hobson is becoming a "good" MS and that more people will send their kids there than in the past. But implicit in this is the idea that Eliot Hine and Jefferson are inferior options. Why is that? I am not trying to race bait, I honestly don't understand the preference some people seem to have for SH, especially because there are such great elementaries that feed into EH and Jefferson (Maury, Brent).

Everyone universally seems to think Eastern is not a great HS. But if people like LT, Maury, Brent, etc., why is the assumption that the MS and HS options they feed into will automatically be not good. Again, this seems so counterintuitive to me as a new parent with a young kid in the neighborhood. Do people who dislike Eastern consider Dunbar a better alternative? Or are these folks who are only willing to accept Wilson or a private school or a "better" high school outside DC?

So basically I'm asking for someone to give a somewhat unvarnished but preferably not angry, sarcastic, or bitter explanation. I know this issue has been discussed a lot on these boards, but looking back through threads, it feels like everyone is referencing what they believe to be conventional wisdom on these issues, but they aren't in agreement. It also seems like attitudes around SH especially have changed a lot in the last couple years.

Fingers crossed this doesn't go off the rails and this can be an actually useful thread for new parents in Ward 6 because at the moment I'm pretty confused about the DCPS landscape in the area (I'm a little clearer on the charter situation, though also interested in how people feel charters play into all of this). I'll try to be vigilant about reporting posts that pull us off topic or are unnecessarily rude or inflammatory.

[Anonymous]

Because everyone on the hill leaves those elementary schools by 3rd grade, if not sooner, so in theory those could all be great schools if these obnoxious parents that are so reoccupied with "education" aka all white schools would just keep their kids in their in bound school with their grade cohort of kids and they get better over time. No one wants to be the test dummy so no one stays, it's a vicious cycle and its killing DCPS. Charters are a total joke and robbing public schools of resources and the kids they could bring in to continuously improve. I don't live on the hill, but rather in petworth but have several friends on the hill and its the same whining and everyone scratching their head when in reality, its that the wealthy or even normal by this areas standards well meaning parents of white kids leave. Period. It's causing me so much frustration in my own area because my childrens cohort of parents keep saying we love the area, we like the school but yeah we gotta move before middle, and it's like hmm i think if everyone stayed we'd be just fine. If you figure out a solution let me know.

[Anonymous]

Basically, people want to ensure that their kids have a cohort of kids who are at their same level academically and socially. It may be that by the time your kid reaches middle school, there will be a big enough cohort such that you don't have any worries, and you can send your kid to any of the schools on the Hill. At present, many parents feel that the cohort is too small by 5th grade (the year middle school charters start accepting kids) and so they lottery out.

Hopefully you will help convince parents to not lottery and stay in, so that more and more parents will feel comfortable sending their kids to their IB public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone on the hill leaves those elementary schools by 3rd grade, if not sooner, so in theory those could all be great schools if these obnoxious parents that are so reoccupied with "education" aka all white schools would just keep their kids in their in bound school with their grade cohort of kids and they get better over time. No one wants to be the test dummy so no one stays, it's a vicious cycle and its killing DCPS. Charters are a total joke and robbing public schools of resources and the kids they could bring in to continuously improve. I don't live on the hill, but rather in petworth but have several friends on the hill and its the same whining and everyone scratching their head when in reality, its that the wealthy or even normal by this areas standards well meaning parents of white kids leave. Period. It's causing me so much frustration in my own area because my childrens cohort of parents keep saying we love the area, we like the school but yeah we gotta move before middle, and it's like hmm i think if everyone stayed we'd be just fine. If you figure out a solution let me know.

Tbh, many parents are happy when those obnoxious white parents leave. One of the things that makes SH a great school is that the vibe is really relaxed and much more friendly, mostly because those white parents have left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone on the hill leaves those elementary schools by 3rd grade, if not sooner, so in theory those could all be great schools if these obnoxious parents that are so reoccupied with "education" aka all white schools would just keep their kids in their in bound school with their grade cohort of kids and they get better over time. No one wants to be the test dummy so no one stays, it's a vicious cycle and its killing DCPS. Charters are a total joke and robbing public schools of resources and the kids they could bring in to continuously improve. I don't live on the hill, but rather in petworth but have several friends on the hill and its the same whining and everyone scratching their head when in reality, its that the wealthy or even normal by this areas standards well meaning parents of white kids leave. Period. It's causing me so much frustration in my own area because my childrens cohort of parents keep saying we love the area, we like the school but yeah we gotta move before middle, and it's like hmm i think if everyone stayed we'd be just fine. If you figure out a solution let me know.

OP here and I appreciate the feedback. I will say that while we're new parents we've lived in the area for quite awhile and know several families that have finished elementary at DCPS schools (two at Brent and one at Maury). But all of them moved to charters for MS, on the premise that Jefferson and EH were bad options. One observation I had is that in one case, I think the parents might have been willing to go to Jefferson, but their kid wanted a charter because she had internalized the attitude from peers and peer parents that Jefferson was not a "good" school, something that broke my heart at the time but I didn't have kids back then so I still didn't really get it.

Point is, I do think more parents are willing to stay for all of elementary, at schools like Brent, Maury, LT, Peabody, maybe even JOW? But everyone seems convinced MS is a crapshoot, which seems weird given how much people talk up these elementaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Basically, people want to ensure that their kids have a cohort of kids who are at their same level academically and socially. It may be that by the time your kid reaches middle school, there will be a big enough cohort such that you don't have any worries, and you can send your kid to any of the schools on the Hill. At present, many parents feel that the cohort is too small by 5th grade (the year middle school charters start accepting kids) and so they lottery out.

Hopefully you will help convince parents to not lottery and stay in, so that more and more parents will feel comfortable sending their kids to their IB public school.

This is really helpful, thank you. I can see how cohorts matter and how even people who want to stay in DCPS or in local schools might feel pressure based on where their kid's peers go. I agree with you that hope there is more willingness to stick around moving forward., but as I stated before, MS seems to be a real breaking point for the families we know with older kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone on the hill leaves those elementary schools by 3rd grade, if not sooner, so in theory those could all be great schools if these obnoxious parents that are so reoccupied with "education" aka all white schools would just keep their kids in their in bound school with their grade cohort of kids and they get better over time. No one wants to be the test dummy so no one stays, it's a vicious cycle and its killing DCPS. Charters are a total joke and robbing public schools of resources and the kids they could bring in to continuously improve. I don't live on the hill, but rather in petworth but have several friends on the hill and its the same whining and everyone scratching their head when in reality, its that the wealthy or even normal by this areas standards well meaning parents of white kids leave. Period. It's causing me so much frustration in my own area because my childrens cohort of parents keep saying we love the area, we like the school but yeah we gotta move before middle, and it's like hmm i think if everyone stayed we'd be just fine. If you figure out a solution let me know.

Tbh, many parents are happy when those obnoxious white parents leave. One of the things that makes SH a great school is that the vibe is really relaxed and much more friendly, mostly because those white parents have left.

This is great to hear about SH (not about the obnoxious white parents)! One thing I worry about raising a kid in DC is that it is so academically competitive and kids don't get a relaxed atmosphere to be kids. I guess there is something to be said for people self-selecting out, though I do worry about the ultimate impact on schools if many IB parents choose not to go there, even if they are not parents I personally love to hang out with. It's a bit of a catch-22.

[Anonymous]

When my kid was 3, I assumed that the middle school situation on the hill would have changed by the time we got to middle school. It has not. I have watched as my neighbors kids have left to charters, moved away, etc. By third grade, all of the hill neighborhood kids we started with were gone.

I think it’s lack of confidence that DCPS hill middle schools will provide a rigorous enough middle school experience that, should you end up having to pull out for high school, your kid will not be behind their peers. And the truth is, when you have kids who are behind academically, your kid probably WILL be behind if you end up moving to a suburban school for high school. Middle school is a dead end on the hill, and not everyone will get into Walls, so it’s a real concern.

[Anonymous]

I think also there is this mentality among parents that their kid is the brightest, smartest most gifted child DCPS has ever seen. I'd argue the vast majority of kids turn out remarkably average, as do most adults. I don't know if its proximity to wealth or the high achieving nature of DC in general but everyone seems to their their 4 year old is gifted and needs the most academic rigorous school available. I do think there is something to being the star academically at a middle of the road school vs middle of the road at a great school where you don't stand out at all. I'm very "successful" on paper, first generation, attorney, bar admission in 2 states, work at a very desirable fintech and did not go to one remarkable school, if anything went to a pretty poor public school track. What I did have though...was some personality, the ability to network and seek out opportunities, a really diverse friend group and the initiative to just keep going. Several of my college friends went to Sidwell and other private prep schools, none of which have remarkable jobs today. I understand these are anecdotal but they've shaped my perspective on education. There is so much more to education than being at a school that is at an "acceptable" 60% or more rate of white kids or ensuring that your child has every possible advantage and AP class under their belt. From the person that turned out just fine and didn't take one AP class. I hope if you're happy with the quality of life on the hill that you invest in your community and local schools, sometimes it just takes a few and perhaps your kids would be just as happy and well off in the end.

[Anonymous]

I think we're typical: we left after 4th for Basis; most of our kids' friends went to Basis or Latin. We'd heard good things overall about Stuart Hobson, but then applying to a high school is a crapshoot.

Currently, the neighborhood high schools are academically weak. While test scores are quite limited in what they can tell you, I think it's informative that Eastern had zero kids who got a 4 or 5 on the PARCC in 2018-19, and the average SAT score was 803.

It might be possible to come out of a neighborhood school academically well-prepared, but I think it would take a lot of work from parents. Whereas at Basis, I feel more comfortable that the default is coming out decently prepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my kid was 3, I assumed that the middle school situation on the hill would have changed by the time we got to middle school. It has not. I have watched as my neighbors kids have left to charters, moved away, etc. By third grade, all of the hill neighborhood kids we started with were gone.

I think it’s lack of confidence that DCPS hill middle schools will provide a rigorous enough middle school experience that, should you end up having to pull out for high school, your kid will not be behind their peers. And the truth is, when you have kids who are behind academically, your kid probably WILL be behind if you end up moving to a suburban school for high school. Middle school is a dead end on the hill, and not everyone will get into Walls, so it’s a real concern.

I think this is a good analysis but also so, so sad on many levels. It's basically a very dumb problem that could be solved via collective action, but there is so little willingness to try. On the one hand I get it because when it's your kid, no one wants to be a guinea pig. And on the other hand, omg it is so dumb how so many people on the Hill move or send their kids to charters/privates all over town rather than just collectively choosing to stick around a let their kids go to neighborhood schools. Like it incredibly dumb and inefficient and ultimately bad for just about everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kid was 3, I assumed that the middle school situation on the hill would have changed by the time we got to middle school. It has not. I have watched as my neighbors kids have left to charters, moved away, etc. By third grade, all of the hill neighborhood kids we started with were gone.

I think it’s lack of confidence that DCPS hill middle schools will provide a rigorous enough middle school experience that, should you end up having to pull out for high school, your kid will not be behind their peers. And the truth is, when you have kids who are behind academically, your kid probably WILL be behind if you end up moving to a suburban school for high school. Middle school is a dead end on the hill, and not everyone will get into Walls, so it’s a real concern.

I think this is a good analysis but also so, so sad on many levels. It's basically a very dumb problem that could be solved via collective action, but there is so little willingness to try. On the one hand I get it because when it's your kid, no one wants to be a guinea pig. And on the other hand, omg it is so dumb how so many people on the Hill move or send their kids to charters/privates all over town rather than just collectively choosing to stick around a let their kids go to neighborhood schools. Like it incredibly dumb and inefficient and ultimately bad for just about everyone.

Clapping for this one. How I feel so often in Petworth. Sad reality here.

[Anonymous]

Lack of DCPS tracking…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kid was 3, I assumed that the middle school situation on the hill would have changed by the time we got to middle school. It has not. I have watched as my neighbors kids have left to charters, moved away, etc. By third grade, all of the hill neighborhood kids we started with were gone.

I think it’s lack of confidence that DCPS hill middle schools will provide a rigorous enough middle school experience that, should you end up having to pull out for high school, your kid will not be behind their peers. And the truth is, when you have kids who are behind academically, your kid probably WILL be behind if you end up moving to a suburban school for high school. Middle school is a dead end on the hill, and not everyone will get into Walls, so it’s a real concern.

I think this is a good analysis but also so, so sad on many levels. It's basically a very dumb problem that could be solved via collective action, but there is so little willingness to try. On the one hand I get it because when it's your kid, no one wants to be a guinea pig. And on the other hand, omg it is so dumb how so many people on the Hill move or send their kids to charters/privates all over town rather than just collectively choosing to stick around a let their kids go to neighborhood schools. Like it incredibly dumb and inefficient and ultimately bad for just about everyone.

It's not that dumb, tbh. By the time your kid reaches 4th grade, you probably will realize that the way your kid learns best might not be the way his/her friends do. Latin/Basis/Two Rivers/Stuart Hobson are all very different schools. I knew that for my kid, Basis would be a great fit, while Latin was a perfect fit for his best friend. Stuart Hobson wouldn't have fit either kid well. That's what makes having the options really great, and what lots of parents think about if they've decided to stay in DC for middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kid was 3, I assumed that the middle school situation on the hill would have changed by the time we got to middle school. It has not. I have watched as my neighbors kids have left to charters, moved away, etc. By third grade, all of the hill neighborhood kids we started with were gone.

I think it’s lack of confidence that DCPS hill middle schools will provide a rigorous enough middle school experience that, should you end up having to pull out for high school, your kid will not be behind their peers. And the truth is, when you have kids who are behind academically, your kid probably WILL be behind if you end up moving to a suburban school for high school. Middle school is a dead end on the hill, and not everyone will get into Walls, so it’s a real concern.

I think this is a good analysis but also so, so sad on many levels. It's basically a very dumb problem that could be solved via collective action, but there is so little willingness to try. On the one hand I get it because when it's your kid, no one wants to be a guinea pig. And on the other hand, omg it is so dumb how so many people on the Hill move or send their kids to charters/privates all over town rather than just collectively choosing to stick around a let their kids go to neighborhood schools. Like it incredibly dumb and inefficient and ultimately bad for just about everyone.

It's not that dumb, tbh. By the time your kid reaches 4th grade, you probably will realize that the way your kid learns best might not be the way his/her friends do. Latin/Basis/Two Rivers/Stuart Hobson are all very different schools. I knew that for my kid, Basis would be a great fit, while Latin was a perfect fit for his best friend. Stuart Hobson wouldn't have fit either kid well. That's what makes having the options really great, and what lots of parents think about if they've decided to stay in DC for middle school.

I wonder if NW DC had easy access to as many charters as the Hill does, whether you'd see a bunch of people not going to a very over-crowded Deal.