No more safeties since they now focus on yield protection?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

The ACT score is just one facet of admissions. Nobody can expect to get in just on the basis of SAT/ACT alone as a leading highlight.
In fact, it has not the primary metric for some time now (according to multiple AOs) but used as confirmation instead.

What was the GPA? More importantly, what went in into achieving that GPA? What were the distribution of grades over 4 years? Were rigorous classes taken? What were grades in classes pertinent to the intended major? Did they take the classes expected?

And there's essays.

And then there are letters of recommendation which you have no access to.

If VT was indeed yield protecting (which I don't think it has the resources to do so), how do you explain all the top of the class at xxx HS (e.g. TJHSST) getting in? These children would not go to VT. And yet they were accepted this year.

There's always an element of surprise. Perhaps you got a bad read. It happens, sorry to say, but best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yield protection is a MYTH at Virginia Tech. It’s just a matter of math. They had over 42,000 apps for a class of 6,800.

They don’t care enough to game whether or not your kid would attend or not. Even with the addition of the short answer questions, they still do not really do holistic admissions.

Lmao no it’s obvious they did this year, if you met the kids from my school who got in and the ones that got waitlisted, you would change your mind. Trust me, they yield protected hard.

+1

NP here. REALLY hard.

In a way, why shouldn’t they? Why should they offer admission to a kid that doesn’t take their essays seriously or shows no interest in the school? Why NOT offer it to a kid that can do the work (even if the kid has a slightly lower GPA and test scores) but really wants to be there? They don’t owe admission to the highest scorers. They should admit kids that can do the work, would contribute to the class and want to be there. Most schools tell you they consider demonstrated interest if they do. Your high scorer should be smart enough to read that and take it seriously. The school likely sees them as arrogant that they ignored what the admissions office told them or could not be bothered to demonstrate interest. Colleges do not want arrogant kids who think they are too good for them and they are smart enough to know those kids are only using them as a safety. Your kid played the game wrong and lost.

This. My kids (this year and 2 years ago) got in everywhere because they targeted schools they really wanted to attend, even the safeties. Did they want to go to their reach/match schools more? Of course, but they chose safeties deliberately that had what they wanted and demonstrated interest. They did not just assume that because they had great GPAs and great SATs that they were owed admission anywhere. One ended up at a top LAC and the other is headed to W&M. I am proud of both of them, and I know that they each found the right college.
I am glad to be done with this process and all the craziness it brings out in people in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yield protection is a MYTH at Virginia Tech. It’s just a matter of math. They had over 42,000 apps for a class of 6,800.

They don’t care enough to game whether or not your kid would attend or not. Even with the addition of the short answer questions, they still do not really do holistic admissions.

Lmao no it’s obvious they did this year, if you met the kids from my school who got in and the ones that got waitlisted, you would change your mind. Trust me, they yield protected hard.

+1

NP here. REALLY hard.

In a way, why shouldn’t they? Why should they offer admission to a kid that doesn’t take their essays seriously or shows no interest in the school? Why NOT offer it to a kid that can do the work (even if the kid has a slightly lower GPA and test scores) but really wants to be there? They don’t owe admission to the highest scorers. They should admit kids that can do the work, would contribute to the class and want to be there. Most schools tell you they consider demonstrated interest if they do. Your high scorer should be smart enough to read that and take it seriously. The school likely sees them as arrogant that they ignored what the admissions office told them or could not be bothered to demonstrate interest. Colleges do not want arrogant kids who think they are too good for them and they are smart enough to know those kids are only using them as a safety. Your kid played the game wrong and lost.

This. My kids (this year and 2 years ago) got in everywhere because they targeted schools they really wanted to attend, even the safeties. Did they want to go to their reach/match schools more? Of course, but they chose safeties deliberately that had what they wanted and demonstrated interest. They did not just assume that because they had great GPAs and great SATs that they were owed admission anywhere. One ended up at a top LAC and the other is headed to W&M. I am proud of both of them, and I know that they each found the right college.
I am glad to be done with this process and all the craziness it brings out in people in this area.

What LAC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

The ACT score is just one facet of admissions. Nobody can expect to get in just on the basis of SAT/ACT alone as a leading highlight.
In fact, it has not the primary metric for some time now (according to multiple AOs) but used as confirmation instead.

What was the GPA? More importantly, what went in into achieving that GPA? What were the distribution of grades over 4 years? Were rigorous classes taken? What were grades in classes pertinent to the intended major? Did they take the classes expected?

And there's essays.

And then there are letters of recommendation which you have no access to.

If VT was indeed yield protecting (which I don't think it has the resources to do so), how do you explain all the top of the class at xxx HS (e.g. TJHSST) getting in? These children would not go to VT. And yet they were accepted this year.

There's always an element of surprise. Perhaps you got a bad read. It happens, sorry to say, but best of luck.

I assume you meant well with the breakdown of how college admissions work. I am well aware as are most here, I assume. My post was a response to the person who suggested that only a high act was needed to make VT a safety option. Ridiculous!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Blah. Blah.
If VT was indeed yield protecting (which I don't think it has the resources to do so), how do you explain all the top of the class at xxx HS (e.g. TJHSST) getting in? These children would not go to VT. And yet they were accepted this year.

The basic problem is that this is not true. My DC (in 2020) had a 4.3+ and 1550+ SAT at TJ and was WLed at VT. That is yield protection. If your kid is unexpectedly WLed at VT and wants to go, I suggest you call VT and say WTF?

[Anonymous]

Colleges are catching on to purchased (aka tutored) test scores and kids with crap schedules to keep their GPA up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Blah. Blah.
If VT was indeed yield protecting (which I don't think it has the resources to do so), how do you explain all the top of the class at xxx HS (e.g. TJHSST) getting in? These children would not go to VT. And yet they were accepted this year.

The basic problem is that this is not true. My DC (in 2020) had a 4.3+ and 1550+ SAT at TJ and was WLed at VT. That is yield protection. If your kid is unexpectedly WLed at VT and wants to go, I suggest you call VT and say WTF?

I have noticed most kids waitlisted were the ones who applied RD. VT says apply EA, RD has limited space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

What was her GPA? Virginia resident? I can check with admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

What was her GPA?
AP/IB?
Engineering/CS or another major?
Did she visit (either in person or online)?

There are so many factors, and ACT is just one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

What was her GPA?
AP/IB?
Engineering/CS or another major?
Did she visit (either in person or online)?

There are so many factors, and ACT is just one.

I mean if the kids a VA resident and has an ACT in the 99% percentile there is probably an issue in the file. Maybe GPA or something else...but a waitlist is not a rejection! If they stick around and really want to go a spot should open by August.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

What was her GPA?
AP/IB?
Engineering/CS or another major?
Did she visit (either in person or online)?

There are so many factors, and ACT is just one.

I mean if the kids a VA resident and has an ACT in the 99% percentile there is probably an issue in the file. Maybe GPA or something else...but a waitlist is not a rejection! If they stick around and really want to go a spot should open by August.

No one is owed an acceptance. For all we know, this kid took the easiest class load available and has a disciplinary or criminal record.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Blah. Blah.
If VT was indeed yield protecting (which I don't think it has the resources to do so), how do you explain all the top of the class at xxx HS (e.g. TJHSST) getting in? These children would not go to VT. And yet they were accepted this year.

The basic problem is that this is not true. My DC (in 2020) had a 4.3+ and 1550+ SAT at TJ and was WLed at VT. That is yield protection. If your kid is unexpectedly WLed at VT and wants to go, I suggest you call VT and say WTF?

I have noticed most kids waitlisted were the ones who applied RD. VT says apply EA, RD has limited space.

+1 Much more straightforward than the other posts and also true. Tech says to apply EA if you want to go.

[Anonymous]

Listen to the admissions guy from DJO. He wants minority & first gen students at Virginia tech. He has talked about it at every presentation he's given since he's gotten there. He has said over and over that they're going to look less at grades and standardized test scores. It's not some hidden secret. He's been very transparent about the whole process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Listen to the admissions guy from DJO. He wants minority & first gen students at Virginia tech. He has talked about it at every presentation he's given since he's gotten there. He has said over and over that they're going to look less at grades and standardized test scores. It's not some hidden secret. He's been very transparent about the whole process.

Who? What's DJO?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]Your kidding right. EVERY university has large groups of that caliber of kid? Really? Your kidding yourself. My kid is in and done at her top choice, and I didn’t post specifically about her. But it IS about high stats focused kids and what they are looking for in a college. I’m sorry your kid ain’t one of them. But a high achieving focused child aiming for HYP [b]ain’t ever gonna find a satisfactory group of peers at Monmouth University.[/b] Your N of a few proves absolutely nothing and your assertion is delusional.[/quote]

Define “satisfactory”. If you mean large in number, you may be right. If you mean intelligent, motivated, capable of high caliber work, then you’re misinformed. They may be harder to find but those kids are absolutely at Monmouth, and many other schools you’d probably consider “inferior” for a “high stats” student. I can also tell you that they know the difference between “your” and “you’re, they proofread their work for errors including autocorrections, and they don’t use “ain’t” when trying to make an effective argument.

- former professor (at Monmouth University, among other places)[/quote]

And yet the argument was effective enough to draw you in to respond. Satisfactory = numerous, several, teeming with options, more than just a few, surrounded by peers of the same drive and caliber. The Data set for Monmouth indicates that only 2percent of the 1200 kids score 700-800 in math and reading portions of sat. So that’s like what 44 kids? Out of 1200??? The majority of the students- over 50 percent, scored between 500-600. That’s a stark difference in student profile dontcha think? So make your point, a HYP child should seriously look at Monmouth. Why? So they can hang out with the same 40 people? And that would be enriching .....why exactly?[/quote]

DP. “Effective?” You are digging yourself in deeper with each response. I was about to respond on the basis that this is a straw man, but you know that. I defer to PP with re: to the students at Monmouth, but you know that there are dozens of schools between Harvard and Monmouth. However, the most idiotic thing is your belief that your child has nothing to learn from people who have lower test scores. I don’t know how your snowflake will cope with the knowledge that there are people who got into her “top tier” college test-optional this year? Maybe they should make those people wear a scarlet “TO” so your kid can avoid talking to them, since they have nothing to offer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Merit_Scholarship_Program

But since you base your definition of who is a “top” student entirely on test scores, perhaps you should note that in 2016-2017, the University of Oklahoma had twice as many National Merit Scholars as Yale. In 2017-2018, half of the top 20 colleges with the most enrolled NMS were state universities, and most of those are schools like Oklahoma, Alabama, Florida, Texas (Dallas! Not Austin), Texas A&M, and Purdue. Many of these colleges offer significant financial incentives for high stats kids to attend. I had a friend whose exceedingly bright kid went to LSU on a full ride — they paid for tuition, room and board, stipend for books, etc. He got into more highly ranked schools, but the deal was too good to turn down. I know this is hard for you to comprehend, but financial considerations are determinative for many students. Even the additional cost of traveling to New England for college is prohibitive. I would suggest that your kid would learn quite a lot from exposure to students who haven’t lived in an UMC bubble their entire lives.