Lapsed Catholics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Using lofty language with a “holier than thou” tone won’t hide some important truths.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“I don’t care about any of the issues with the church” - what? I can perhaps see remaining a Catholic while fighting for change/reform - but staying in a faith that allows the abuse of children, is misogynistic and homophobic makes no moral sense. “I don’t care” negates any sense of ethics or personal responsibility. I left because of these factors - the superiority, clericalism and hate for others was not Christian.

You might try actually researching things before posting these calumnies:

1. The Church does not “allow” the abuse of children; like other institutions, it has handled such allegations poorly at some times and places and better at other times and places. At present, the Church (particularly in the US) has child protection programs that vastly exceed those of many other institutions. A preponderance of evidence clearly demonstrates otherwise. Persons in authority with knowledge of abuse who did nothing….for years. Pedophiles being reassigned to different parishes. Instances of abuse being covered up, ignored, and glossed over. Pedophiles being given free reign to prey upon the innocent and destroy their lives with little worry about punishment or retribution. Yes — the Church did allow abuse, and it wasn’t until lawsuits started to mushroom across the country when the Church was forced to amend its ways.

2. The Church is not “mysogynistic.” It treats men and women differently in virtue of their unique characteristics. How can a Church that venerated the Mother of God as co-redemptrix, and produced hundreds of canonized female saints be mysogynistic? Focus on perceived ministerial opportunities to the exclusion of all else is narcissistic and ignores the plethora of opportunities within the Church for women to live lives dedicated to their Faith and the well being of others. Mary and most female saints are venerated by the Church for their virginity and so-called purity, not for the fullness of their womanhood. Women are ranked as inferior in the Church simply because of their gender. They are barred from ordained ministry due to a conveniently narrow view of the theological concept of priesthood, as well as a subjective interpretation of Scripture. And go talk to a typical nun in North America about how she is overworked, underpaid, and receives the bare minimum support from the Church.

3. The Church is not “homophobic.” It draws a distinction between persons and their actions. Homosexual orientation is recognized as morally neutral. Homosexual actions, like heterosexual actions outside Christian marriage, are objectively sinful. Tough to be homophobic when the supermajority of your clergy is gay. It’s a pity, however, the Church doesn’t practice what it preaches.

Have you ever actually studied the theological and philosophical underpinnings of the teachings and practices you deride as making “no moral sense?”

The Church does good in this world, but it’s also challenged by major issues that threaten to undermine the good it does. You would be wise to get your nose out of the Catechism and live in the real world.

Lofty? Sorry. I’ll try to simplify it for you.

1. The Church historically has handled abuse allegations more or less the same way as other institutions at any given time. When there was no psychiatry and personality was understood primarily in philosophical terms, abuse was thought to be a moral failing that could be handled by removing at least particular temptation. Later, when there were psychiatrists and psychologists to consult, they told the bishops that persons with inappropriate attractions could be treated and returned to ministry. When that unfortunately turned out not to be true, and it became apparent that persons disposed to abuse are incurable, the Church responded by laicizing them. The present policies are very strict. They laicized a Cardinal. Psychiatrists and psychologists were no longer telling church officials to treat and return to pedophile priests to ministry by the early 2000s when the dam started to break. Furthermore, not all pedophile priests were being treated. Many were simply moved to a new parish in a vain attempt to make their problems go away. You summarize the clergy sex abuse crisis in a nice little package. Unfortunately, it's disconnected from reality. It also fails to show any recognition or acknowledgment of the emotional damage and trauma inflicted upon thousands of innocent children, as well as the irreparable damage it did to the Church's credibility. Who cares of a pedophile priest or the pedophile former Archbishop of Washington are laicized? They should be behind bars.

2. The “typical” nuns in North America that I know are well educated; operate essentially independent professional ministries; have apartments and cars; eat in restaurants; get their hair done; shop for clothes, etc. They are amazing, apostolic women who do a great deal of good. What they are not is some movie stereotype of poor women pushed into the convent against their will and made virtual slaves of the clergy. I do know nuns who live very simply, in a way that was more common before Vatican II; who wear traditional-style habits; and who do humble work taking care of people nobody else wants anything to do with. They are some of the happiest people I’ve ever known. The practical fact is that women have long had important roles in the Church. (St. Teresa of Avila, whose feast day is today, reformed the Carmelite order.). The obsessive focus on ordained ministry as the be all and end all of Christian service is a superficial and worldly thing that entirely misses the point. Nuns can be well educated with a professional ministry, apartment, car, and some disposable income, and still be overworked, underpaid, and not supported by the Church. You know nuns who are some of the happiest people you've ever known? Great. I know nuns who are in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, utterly exhausted, underappreciated, and quietly question their Church and faith. And your dismissal of any talk about ordained ministry for women simply points to the Church's rotten patriarchy -- clinging to subjective beliefs and interpretations that fall further and further out of alignment with the Western world (which, I'm sure, you simply and smugly dismiss as a world rife with apostasy anyway).

3. The allegation I responded to was that the Church is homophobic. That rebutted, now the allegation is that a “supermajority” of priests are gay. Priests, regardless of their personal orientation, are called to lead chaste, celibate lives. The ones who do (and that is most of them) are an example to others that active sexuality is not the only means of expressing love. Celibate gay priests understand the challenges of other gays trying to live in accord with the gospel.You, frankly, have no idea what you're talking about. You think you do, but -- once again -- your words are disconnected from reality. I went to seminary. It wasn't long ago. I saw the rampant unsanctioned relationships. I was propositioned at least three times. There was nothing being done to promote a healthy sexuality among the seminarians. It was a major reason why I left, and why I said that the Church does not practice what it preaches.

+1,000,000. I realized that I could not stomach raising my sons in the Catholic Church where they would see no women in leadership roles. The Church had no problem asking for donations of the money I’ve earned as a woman in leadership in the corporate world, but would never consider allowing me to serve in a real leadership position within the Church.

Growing up, my mom’s hairdresser dated the priest at our Church. He would tell my mom all the juicy details of their homosexual sexcapades then go precacj that homosexuality is a sin. The hypocrisy in the institution is sickening.

Yeah this doesn’t seem believable at all. Some of you are good at lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Using lofty language with a “holier than thou” tone won’t hide some important truths.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“I don’t care about any of the issues with the church” - what? I can perhaps see remaining a Catholic while fighting for change/reform - but staying in a faith that allows the abuse of children, is misogynistic and homophobic makes no moral sense. “I don’t care” negates any sense of ethics or personal responsibility. I left because of these factors - the superiority, clericalism and hate for others was not Christian.

You might try actually researching things before posting these calumnies:

1. The Church does not “allow” the abuse of children; like other institutions, it has handled such allegations poorly at some times and places and better at other times and places. At present, the Church (particularly in the US) has child protection programs that vastly exceed those of many other institutions. A preponderance of evidence clearly demonstrates otherwise. Persons in authority with knowledge of abuse who did nothing….for years. Pedophiles being reassigned to different parishes. Instances of abuse being covered up, ignored, and glossed over. Pedophiles being given free reign to prey upon the innocent and destroy their lives with little worry about punishment or retribution. Yes — the Church did allow abuse, and it wasn’t until lawsuits started to mushroom across the country when the Church was forced to amend its ways.

2. The Church is not “mysogynistic.” It treats men and women differently in virtue of their unique characteristics. How can a Church that venerated the Mother of God as co-redemptrix, and produced hundreds of canonized female saints be mysogynistic? Focus on perceived ministerial opportunities to the exclusion of all else is narcissistic and ignores the plethora of opportunities within the Church for women to live lives dedicated to their Faith and the well being of others. Mary and most female saints are venerated by the Church for their virginity and so-called purity, not for the fullness of their womanhood. Women are ranked as inferior in the Church simply because of their gender. They are barred from ordained ministry due to a conveniently narrow view of the theological concept of priesthood, as well as a subjective interpretation of Scripture. And go talk to a typical nun in North America about how she is overworked, underpaid, and receives the bare minimum support from the Church.

3. The Church is not “homophobic.” It draws a distinction between persons and their actions. Homosexual orientation is recognized as morally neutral. Homosexual actions, like heterosexual actions outside Christian marriage, are objectively sinful. Tough to be homophobic when the supermajority of your clergy is gay. It’s a pity, however, the Church doesn’t practice what it preaches.

Have you ever actually studied the theological and philosophical underpinnings of the teachings and practices you deride as making “no moral sense?”

The Church does good in this world, but it’s also challenged by major issues that threaten to undermine the good it does. You would be wise to get your nose out of the Catechism and live in the real world.

Lofty? Sorry. I’ll try to simplify it for you.

1. The Church historically has handled abuse allegations more or less the same way as other institutions at any given time. When there was no psychiatry and personality was understood primarily in philosophical terms, abuse was thought to be a moral failing that could be handled by removing at least particular temptation. Later, when there were psychiatrists and psychologists to consult, they told the bishops that persons with inappropriate attractions could be treated and returned to ministry. When that unfortunately turned out not to be true, and it became apparent that persons disposed to abuse are incurable, the Church responded by laicizing them. The present policies are very strict. They laicized a Cardinal. Psychiatrists and psychologists were no longer telling church officials to treat and return to pedophile priests to ministry by the early 2000s when the dam started to break. Furthermore, not all pedophile priests were being treated. Many were simply moved to a new parish in a vain attempt to make their problems go away. You summarize the clergy sex abuse crisis in a nice little package. Unfortunately, it's disconnected from reality. It also fails to show any recognition or acknowledgment of the emotional damage and trauma inflicted upon thousands of innocent children, as well as the irreparable damage it did to the Church's credibility. Who cares of a pedophile priest or the pedophile former Archbishop of Washington are laicized? They should be behind bars.

2. The “typical” nuns in North America that I know are well educated; operate essentially independent professional ministries; have apartments and cars; eat in restaurants; get their hair done; shop for clothes, etc. They are amazing, apostolic women who do a great deal of good. What they are not is some movie stereotype of poor women pushed into the convent against their will and made virtual slaves of the clergy. I do know nuns who live very simply, in a way that was more common before Vatican II; who wear traditional-style habits; and who do humble work taking care of people nobody else wants anything to do with. They are some of the happiest people I’ve ever known. The practical fact is that women have long had important roles in the Church. (St. Teresa of Avila, whose feast day is today, reformed the Carmelite order.). The obsessive focus on ordained ministry as the be all and end all of Christian service is a superficial and worldly thing that entirely misses the point. Nuns can be well educated with a professional ministry, apartment, car, and some disposable income, and still be overworked, underpaid, and not supported by the Church. You know nuns who are some of the happiest people you've ever known? Great. I know nuns who are in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, utterly exhausted, underappreciated, and quietly question their Church and faith. And your dismissal of any talk about ordained ministry for women simply points to the Church's rotten patriarchy -- clinging to subjective beliefs and interpretations that fall further and further out of alignment with the Western world (which, I'm sure, you simply and smugly dismiss as a world rife with apostasy anyway).

3. The allegation I responded to was that the Church is homophobic. That rebutted, now the allegation is that a “supermajority” of priests are gay. Priests, regardless of their personal orientation, are called to lead chaste, celibate lives. The ones who do (and that is most of them) are an example to others that active sexuality is not the only means of expressing love. Celibate gay priests understand the challenges of other gays trying to live in accord with the gospel.You, frankly, have no idea what you're talking about. You think you do, but -- once again -- your words are disconnected from reality. I went to seminary. It wasn't long ago. I saw the rampant unsanctioned relationships. I was propositioned at least three times. There was nothing being done to promote a healthy sexuality among the seminarians. It was a major reason why I left, and why I said that the Church does not practice what it preaches.

+1,000,000. I realized that I could not stomach raising my sons in the Catholic Church where they would see no women in leadership roles. The Church had no problem asking for donations of the money I’ve earned as a woman in leadership in the corporate world, but would never consider allowing me to serve in a real leadership position within the Church.

Growing up, my mom’s hairdresser dated the priest at our Church. He would tell my mom all the juicy details of their homosexual sexcapades then go precacj that homosexuality is a sin. The hypocrisy in the institution is sickening.

Yeah this doesn’t seem believable at all. Some of you are good at lying.

No. The Church is a big place with a lot of different people and a lot of secrets. You would do well to broaden your perspective and awareness a bit.

[Anonymous]

We left after the second big sex scandal. I was naive enough to believe the church was serious about stopping abuse. I was part of the group that created “Protecting God’s Children”. I really thought we would see dramatic changes. That didn’t happen. I have no more fuks to give. The church itself is broken beyond repair. Those who still attend are enablers at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

I was sexually abused by a relative and they tried to hide it so they could portray the image of the beautiful extended family. Even throughout my life the focus was always on me forgiving him and befriending him rather than protecting me. I had to spend many years after sitting next to him, being alone with him etc. Later I found out my abuser was unhappy in his marriage and wanted to divorce but my parents argued against it which probably led to the abuse. It's further triggering to have found out as an adult that the church itself promoted this behavior with priests and children and then to see other Catholic friends also not support the victims. Then to see them act like they care about unborn babies rather than the babies priests abused is more unforgiving. Then realizing that people are not able healthily to abstain this much from sex and that the entire religion is built on a foundation of giving up your life for some supposed great future life and excusing behavior on earth versus trying to live your best moral life here and manage your earthly desires was another point that turned me away from the church. I saw priests pretend to be celibate but really be gay because they couldn't face their own masculinity and then turn around and tell people that being gay was wrong. Then to see people politicize the religion and act like they were christians while doing majorly unchristian things made the little customs that I liked about the religion turn into weapons as these people paraded this belief that whatever custom they adhered to was more important than being a good person. Basically, one major lapse by my family led to the realization that the entire foundation of the religion was shaky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

Nope. My parents were good people and did their best to keep us in the church through the 70s/80s. They encouraged our involvement in teen activities. Every day they made clear the role that their faith played in their lives. I can't think of how they could have done it better. We all left for various reasons unrelated to our parents. Today, we are active in various other Christian churches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

I was sexually abused by a relative and they tried to hide it so they could portray the image of the beautiful extended family. Even throughout my life the focus was always on me forgiving him and befriending him rather than protecting me. I had to spend many years after sitting next to him, being alone with him etc. Later I found out my abuser was unhappy in his marriage and wanted to divorce but my parents argued against it which probably led to the abuse. It's further triggering to have found out as an adult that the church itself promoted this behavior with priests and children and then to see other Catholic friends also not support the victims. Then to see them act like they care about unborn babies rather than the babies priests abused is more unforgiving. Then realizing that people are not able healthily to abstain this much from sex and that the entire religion is built on a foundation of giving up your life for some supposed great future life and excusing behavior on earth versus trying to live your best moral life here and manage your earthly desires was another point that turned me away from the church. I saw priests pretend to be celibate but really be gay because they couldn't face their own masculinity and then turn around and tell people that being gay was wrong. Then to see people politicize the religion and act like they were christians while doing majorly unchristian things made the little customs that I liked about the religion turn into weapons as these people paraded this belief that whatever custom they adhered to was more important than being a good person. Basically, one major lapse by my family led to the realization that the entire foundation of the religion was shaky.

Interestingly I still practice the faith in my own way kind of combining jewish secular, and catholic customs and beliefs.
What I couldn't get away from though was the fact that I was worshipping a woman who never had sex but somehow became a mother to all and was a human without sin so nothing like regular women and a man who somehow saved everyone by dying himself and also was without sin. It wasn't an achievable earthly outcome nor did it seem a path to becoming godlike by forsaking the body completely. I couldn't get over that this faith was basically discarding the use and regulation of the goodness and evilness within the human body. I think it relates to why so many Catholics and Christians disregard their lives on earth and make excuses for their behavior. People blame St. Augustine for bringing in the gnostic anti-body traditions, but I think it was present before this. Even communion. Eating the body. By making these people into gods it kind of tricks us into thinking we can also be like them but we are human. Mortal. And we have to contend with our survival and others on earth. So my issues ended up running way beyond just being upset at the church for abuse. I fail to see people living the faith in a way that actually contends with their human needs. They either give into the secretly or refrain from society so much that they can barely interact with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

I was sexually abused by a relative and they tried to hide it so they could portray the image of the beautiful extended family. Even throughout my life the focus was always on me forgiving him and befriending him rather than protecting me. I had to spend many years after sitting next to him, being alone with him etc. Later I found out my abuser was unhappy in his marriage and wanted to divorce but my parents argued against it which probably led to the abuse. It's further triggering to have found out as an adult that the church itself promoted this behavior with priests and children and then to see other Catholic friends also not support the victims. Then to see them act like they care about unborn babies rather than the babies priests abused is more unforgiving. Then realizing that people are not able healthily to abstain this much from sex and that the entire religion is built on a foundation of giving up your life for some supposed great future life and excusing behavior on earth versus trying to live your best moral life here and manage your earthly desires was another point that turned me away from the church. I saw priests pretend to be celibate but really be gay because they couldn't face their own masculinity and then turn around and tell people that being gay was wrong. Then to see people politicize the religion and act like they were christians while doing majorly unchristian things made the little customs that I liked about the religion turn into weapons as these people paraded this belief that whatever custom they adhered to was more important than being a good person. Basically, one major lapse by my family led to the realization that the entire foundation of the religion was shaky.

Interestingly I still practice the faith in my own way kind of combining jewish secular, and catholic customs and beliefs.
What I couldn't get away from though was the fact that I was worshipping a woman who never had sex but somehow became a mother to all and was a human without sin so nothing like regular women and a man who somehow saved everyone by dying himself and also was without sin. It wasn't an achievable earthly outcome nor did it seem a path to becoming godlike by forsaking the body completely. I couldn't get over that this faith was basically discarding the use and regulation of the goodness and evilness within the human body. I think it relates to why so many Catholics and Christians disregard their lives on earth and make excuses for their behavior. People blame St. Augustine for bringing in the gnostic anti-body traditions, but I think it was present before this. Even communion. Eating the body. By making these people into gods it kind of tricks us into thinking we can also be like them but we are human. Mortal. And we have to contend with our survival and others on earth. So my issues ended up running way beyond just being upset at the church for abuse. I fail to see people living the faith in a way that actually contends with their human needs. They either give into the secretly or refrain from society so much that they can barely interact with it.

NP. Mary had sex—Jesus had brothers, like James.

[Anonymous]

Catholics don't believe this. They are all about celibacy. For both of them. Jesus and Mary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

I was sexually abused by a relative and they tried to hide it so they could portray the image of the beautiful extended family. Even throughout my life the focus was always on me forgiving him and befriending him rather than protecting me. I had to spend many years after sitting next to him, being alone with him etc. Later I found out my abuser was unhappy in his marriage and wanted to divorce but my parents argued against it which probably led to the abuse. It's further triggering to have found out as an adult that the church itself promoted this behavior with priests and children and then to see other Catholic friends also not support the victims. Then to see them act like they care about unborn babies rather than the babies priests abused is more unforgiving. Then realizing that people are not able healthily to abstain this much from sex and that the entire religion is built on a foundation of giving up your life for some supposed great future life and excusing behavior on earth versus trying to live your best moral life here and manage your earthly desires was another point that turned me away from the church. I saw priests pretend to be celibate but really be gay because they couldn't face their own masculinity and then turn around and tell people that being gay was wrong. Then to see people politicize the religion and act like they were christians while doing majorly unchristian things made the little customs that I liked about the religion turn into weapons as these people paraded this belief that whatever custom they adhered to was more important than being a good person. Basically, one major lapse by my family led to the realization that the entire foundation of the religion was shaky.

Interestingly I still practice the faith in my own way kind of combining jewish secular, and catholic customs and beliefs.
What I couldn't get away from though was the fact that I was worshipping a woman who never had sex but somehow became a mother to all and was a human without sin so nothing like regular women and a man who somehow saved everyone by dying himself and also was without sin. It wasn't an achievable earthly outcome nor did it seem a path to becoming godlike by forsaking the body completely. I couldn't get over that this faith was basically discarding the use and regulation of the goodness and evilness within the human body. I think it relates to why so many Catholics and Christians disregard their lives on earth and make excuses for their behavior. People blame St. Augustine for bringing in the gnostic anti-body traditions, but I think it was present before this. Even communion. Eating the body. By making these people into gods it kind of tricks us into thinking we can also be like them but we are human. Mortal. And we have to contend with our survival and others on earth. So my issues ended up running way beyond just being upset at the church for abuse. I fail to see people living the faith in a way that actually contends with their human needs. They either give into the secretly or refrain from society so much that they can barely interact with it.

Whatever you’re practicing, it isn’t the Faith defined by what the Catholic Church believes, professes and holds as true.

Catholics do not “worship” Mary. Jesus was both God and man.

You seem to have had a pitiful catechetical education.

You’re free to believe whatever you like, but please do not misrepresent it as bearing any resemblance to Catholic teaching.

[Anonymous]

Agreed which is why I'm on the lapsed catholic page. They honor Mary. Is that better? I don't see the benefit in honoring Jesus or Mary as perfect humans because by not having sin they weren't full humans. That was the point I was making. This is a page for lapsed catholics. Take your judgement somewhere else. It's nice to finally be able to talk about why I had a hard time with the faith. It had nothing to do with not following the rules. It simply didn't make sense with the body I was given and I didn't want to try to emulate someone who was basically a god when I wasn't.

[Anonymous]

You can't have these conversations with atheists because they will just tell you that your faith is stupid and unreal. You can't have these talks with Catholics because they all act like the person above judging you telling you you aren't following the faith - umm we know just like your leaders. So basically if you are part of the religion you just keep all your doubts to yourself and hide your behavior or suppress it.

[Anonymous]

And in what world does this person think this is a loving response using the word pitiful? It's just so hard to actually have community with people who are like that dad who follow the faith like a recipe without understanding it or practicing it. As if honoriing and worshipping are so far off. Then you get into an hour-long conversation about the difference versus the real issue that Mary is not an actual example of a human. This is why I stay away from the church. It's just round-and-round stupid conversations about honoring versus worship and minutiae like that to get away from the bigger issues.

Whatever you’re practicing, it isn’t the Faith defined by what the Catholic Church believes, professes and holds as true.

Catholics do not “worship” Mary. Jesus was both God and man.

You seem to have had a pitiful catechetical education.

You’re free to believe whatever you like, but please do not misrepresent it as bearing any resemblance to Catholic teaching.

[Anonymous]

“Serious” Catholics probably would see me as lapsed, but I am way more Catholic than I was in my childhood. We attended mass weekly but my dad was a Protestant and just along for the ride and my mom made it very clear that she didn’t want to be there. I always felt on the outside of things in my parish in spite of being an altar server for years and doing my sacraments, and I felt the same way around the kids in college who went to the Newman center every week.

Now that I’m adult I realize that there are a lot of ways to be Catholic and people running around categorizing people into good Catholics and bad Catholics and lapsed Catholics need to focus on themselves. I belong to a liberal and loving parish, my kids go to an independent Catholic school with a focus on social justice and service, and we don’t go to mass every week. I pray for the intercession of my favorite saints and Mary. No one is going to make me feel bad or less Catholic for that because I own my faith, not the church or a priest or a messed up hierarchy of backwards men. As our (amazing, loving, inclusive, responsible) priest says, god is perfect, man is not, and the Catholic Church was built by men. I’m teaching my kids the same and I hope they feel free to belong to the Catholic faith in the way they choose. That’s the best answer I have for how I personally am handling it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

No. I love the ritual of the church. "The issues with the church" are why I left. There's nothing my parents could do to change that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Serious” Catholics probably would see me as lapsed, but I am way more Catholic than I was in my childhood. We attended mass weekly but my dad was a Protestant and just along for the ride and my mom made it very clear that she didn’t want to be there. I always felt on the outside of things in my parish in spite of being an altar server for years and doing my sacraments, and I felt the same way around the kids in college who went to the Newman center every week.

Now that I’m adult I realize that there are a lot of ways to be Catholic and people running around categorizing people into good Catholics and bad Catholics and lapsed Catholics need to focus on themselves. I belong to a liberal and loving parish, my kids go to an independent Catholic school with a focus on social justice and service, and we don’t go to mass every week. I pray for the intercession of my favorite saints and Mary. No one is going to make me feel bad or less Catholic for that because I own my faith, not the church or a priest or a messed up hierarchy of backwards men. As our (amazing, loving, inclusive, responsible) priest says, god is perfect, man is not, and the Catholic Church was built by men. I’m teaching my kids the same and I hope they feel free to belong to the Catholic faith in the way they choose. That’s the best answer I have for how I personally am handling it.

Love this, it’s a good lesson for people of all faiths

—not a Catholic