Sidwell or St. Albans for 9th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Both schools have bright, intense students. Both are high pressure, but STA has more moderating elements. Faculty are very engaged and caring at STA; they are invested in the success of every student. Sidwell teachers on the whole seem more detached. At Sidwell if a child needs help, it's their job to reach out to the teachers. At STA if a child needs help, the teacher might reach out to the child.

The bolded is called self-advocacy. Students should have a sense of where they are and if they need help, to be proactive about it. Bosses and college professors won't coddle, the earlier the students learn it, the better.

And yes, the college counseling at Sidwell was a disaster a few years ago. They have 5 staffers now headed by a true pro, so it ended up at a better place because of it.

This self-advocacy line is BS that is just made up by commenters on this message board. It is not actually what Sidwell touts. And that should not be a surprise, because suggesting that 14 and 15 year old kids should need to beat down a teacher's door to get help or advice because that's the way it will be in college or a job is hardly a selling point for a high school. Instilling relationships where young adults see that authority figures can be invested in them and their success, and developing meaningful mentoring relationships with them, is actually a much better way for them to learn self-advocacy. Because you learn how to experience that type of relationship and how it can benefit you. And when the relationship doesn't exist, you know what to ask and advocate for. PP's comment about Sidwell teachers is a fair characterization when talking generally (there are some exceptions) and it is a glaring weakness of the school.

Disagree.

I have found the teachers very receptive to students approaching them. Generally speaking they are warm, and care greatly about their students. The point about the self-advocacy is spot on, it is messaged in parent back-to-school nights, it is articulated to the students. If families are not getting that message, I am not sure what to say. They really want students to reach out to faculty, ask questions, develop relationships etc.

Agree with this. I don't know how this plays out for students that need help - I know my DC will reach out when it relates to clarification of work or needing help. I think it slips a bit more when it comes to forming more general mentoring relationships between teachers/students. I've seen several students who were high achieving but more introverted end up not make strong relationships with teachers due to their personality. This is a shame and a lost opportunity - teachers mostly let them be because they are doing well but there's so much to be gained and it's hard for the student to see that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Both schools have bright, intense students. Both are high pressure, but STA has more moderating elements. Faculty are very engaged and caring at STA; they are invested in the success of every student. Sidwell teachers on the whole seem more detached. At Sidwell if a child needs help, it's their job to reach out to the teachers. At STA if a child needs help, the teacher might reach out to the child.

The bolded is called self-advocacy. Students should have a sense of where they are and if they need help, to be proactive about it. Bosses and college professors won't coddle, the earlier the students learn it, the better.

And yes, the college counseling at Sidwell was a disaster a few years ago. They have 5 staffers now headed by a true pro, so it ended up at a better place because of it.

This self-advocacy line is BS that is just made up by commenters on this message board. It is not actually what Sidwell touts. And that should not be a surprise, because suggesting that 14 and 15 year old kids should need to beat down a teacher's door to get help or advice because that's the way it will be in college or a job is hardly a selling point for a high school. Instilling relationships where young adults see that authority figures can be invested in them and their success, and developing meaningful mentoring relationships with them, is actually a much better way for them to learn self-advocacy. Because you learn how to experience that type of relationship and how it can benefit you. And when the relationship doesn't exist, you know what to ask and advocate for. PP's comment about Sidwell teachers is a fair characterization when talking generally (there are some exceptions) and it is a glaring weakness of the school.

Disagree.

I have found the teachers very receptive to students approaching them. Generally speaking they are warm, and care greatly about their students. The point about the self-advocacy is spot on, it is messaged in parent back-to-school nights, it is articulated to the students. If families are not getting that message, I am not sure what to say. They really want students to reach out to faculty, ask questions, develop relationships etc.

The question is not whether teachers are receptive when students reach out (though I have seen many who are not). The question is whether students only get help when they "self-advocate" and reach out, and whether students who do not "self advocate" are allowed to struggle in silence or, perhaps, muddle along.

I have heard Deans Gross and Woods, among others, discuss the way they believe the school's mentoring and advising relationships should work. And their views and what they tell parents are not focused on fend-for-yourself self-advocacy. The problem is that the faculty is not willing to go along with being more proactive with students, for the reasons that the original poster described. This is not a selling point for the upper school, and the self-advocacy line is a concocted one.

Also, if you are the PP who talked about bosses won't "coddle" and self-advocacy is needed in the workplace? Do you actually function in today's workplace? Because I am an equity partner at a big downtown law firm. And the mentoring of young lawyers is a constant topic among my (successful and kind of intimidating) partners and friends at other firms. Very few partners take the approach any more that feedback or advice is only given to associates who seek it out, and of those who do, only the tremendously successful can get away with it for long.

Agree that the advisory/ mentoring system in the upper school, particularly, needs some work. What can we as parents do to push the school to work on this?

I don’t see efforts going very far. Sidwell gives its teachers a ton of autonomy, for better and worse—depending on the issue.

I'm hopeful that the pandemic will be cause for the school to reassess some things. The disconnectedness that many students felt was heightened by the lack of meaningful advisory relationships already existing. Talk to Robbie and Michael for now. And then maybe Mamadou later, or perhaps a group of parents might meet with Mamadou.

PP, you are right about the teachers though. In the past there have been much smaller changes that the admin has tried to put into place and that the teachers have resisted. It's sad, because this would be such a positive step for the upper school to take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have children at both.

My daughter attends Sidwell, boys attend STA.

Admin at STA is night and day stronger than at Sidwell. Sidwell's HOS is very focused on prestige and influence, and gives preferential treatment to the well-connected. So much for Quaker values.

STA boys are encouraged to be supportive of one another, character education is integrated into the curriculum, chapel services where boys lead and speak encourage them to think about values. Sidwell does character education, too, but it seems more focused on wokeness.

Both schools have bright, intense students. Both are high pressure, but STA has more moderating elements. Faculty are very engaged and caring at STA; they are invested in the success of every student. Sidwell teachers on the whole seem more detached. At Sidwell if a child needs help, it's their job to reach out to the teachers. At STA if a child needs help, the teacher might reach out to the child.

Sidwell students are supportive but they almost seem to glorify suffering and try to outdo each other in all-nighters and other all-out efforts to achieve. STA has highly competitive kids, too, but you're not supposed to show the sweat. The boys are expected to be self-deprecating about achievements and to help others. Bragging about grades is a no-no. Everyone excels in something and they are encouraged to appreciate each others' strengths.

There are some very conservative families at STA. There are some very woke families at Sidwell. The conservative families at STA are quiet about it. The woke families at Sidwell are very loud about it.

Both communities have many normal people who are welcoming. On the whole, politics and wokeness is less in-your-face at STA, because there's an effort to build community across political beliefs, which is not as true at Sidwell. There is more diversity of thought at STA, because there are few conservative families at Sidwell. I'm not sure how comfortable they are at STA either, as the majority of the school despite rumors to the contrary skews moderate and liberal. However, there is a careful restraint at STA around politics, with the exception of a few people on both sides.

College counseling is 1000X better at STA. Read some of the past threads on the DCUM issues with college counseling at Sidwell. It would never have been allowed to deteriorate to that extent at STA, because the school is better managed and the morale among faculty/admin is higher. I've heard STA teachers are the best paid among private schools in the DC area. Most of the teachers seem genuinely happy and that's reflected in their work with the students.

Both schools are excellent schools. As a parent I'm happier with STA. IMO it's better in terms of overall student experience, parent community, and administrative stability and strength. If you send your child to Sidwell, hire a private admissions counselor as soon as your child enters 9th grade.

A few years ago my son had exactly the same choice. We left it up to him and (though I secretly preferred STA), he chose Sidwell. This post highlights exactly what I feel like he missed out on. He has had great teachers at Sidwell but no one seemed personally invested in him or his success. College counseling is a joke and the HOS showed his lack of leadership during the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

With the NCS relationship as tight as it is, StA is very different than a straight-up single-sex school. And the cathedral close makes for a campus that is orders-of-magnitude preferable to Sidwell.

[Anonymous]

This is a very informative thread. My DS, currently at STA, did not apply to Sidwell because of strong STA preference. At that time, we knew some of the major differences between the two schools but we did not anticipate the big differences in how the schools handled the pandemic, nor were we aware of the culture of glorifying academic sufferings at Sidwell. This last point is important to me (a PhD scholar who do not like TJ’s overkill at too young an age).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With the NCS relationship as tight as it is, StA is very different than a straight-up single-sex school. And the cathedral close makes for a campus that is orders-of-magnitude preferable to Sidwell.

The two schools have very different cultures and, while there are some overlaps, describing the relationship as "tight" is just inaccurate. I would describe it as contentious at times.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to step up here and say that our DC at Sidwell has not experienced the "academic suffering" culture described here. However, DC has always been the type to focus on their own effort and own results and not those of others. Main focus is love of learning and it happy to work hard as long as the teacher reciprocates on their end. DC had several choices for HS and felt SFS matched this the best. DC has not been disappointed and has been very happy with teachers and course material at SFS.

Children are different and SFS is not for everyone, and neither is STA (my child included). When choosing at HS I think it is very important for the student to decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. What I'd say about Sidwell and self-advocacy is that they really want to avoid well-meaning helicopter parents who are contacting teachers to advocate for their children. That level of parent involvement is really not enjoyable for anyone. In my experience, teachers do proactively reach out to students, and students are encouraged to reach out to teachers. Some students, especially in the 9th grade, lack the self-confidence to do that. But by 10th, most seem to have grown comfortable. By the same token, some teachers are great at communicating with students, while some others are not good at it, and so students must be more proactive. For the most part, teachers seem very warm and approachable. My high schooler, who is not particularly outgoing, nevertheless has friendly relations with several of them.

On politics, I don't really know or care too much what the politics of other parents are. By the time your kids are in high school, there really aren't too many situations where you'll be having deep personal conversations with lots of other parents such that you'd learn their politics. I certainly had more of those conversations with other parents when my kids were in younger grade, but by high school the kids are arranging their own social schedules and the parents are mostly just drivers. So for the STA poster who claimed to know down to the percentage the politics of other families, I think that's either a holdover from younger grades or else a bit of exaggeration. Most of the kids are fairly outgoing about their progressive stripes, as the young are apt to be, but I also hear about more Conservative students so they clearly are not afraid to voice their opinions.

It seems to me the kids support one another well. The school works hard to downplay the stress and anxiety. And most parents talk about trying to reduce stress. But the kids definitely still seem to feel it. I suspect it comes from the fact that all the kids are smart, and lots of them are extremely smart and motivated and accomplished. So if you're a bright but unmotivated student who is hoping to do just enough to get by, you'll find yourself near the bottom of the grade. And if you're a student who is ambitious and wants to excel, you have to work pretty hard to feel like you're ahead of your peers. The solution of course if for each student to do their best individually, and not worry about how their peers are doing, but that advice is hard for anyone to follow.

That's Sidwell- the constant pushing the envelop culture of parents has been so over the top for so many years that the Faculty, including the guidance department has become turtle like in an attempt at self protection.

with an occasional public airing in WAPO when the former head of college advising QUIT and wrote a letter published in the Washington Post as to why

STA would never brook this kind of behavior

[Anonymous]

The crazy thing is that so many of the so-called well-meaning helicopter parents would be more than ready, if not thrilled, to trust them (to use Mamadou’s phrase) and stay away entirely. If only the trust was warranted.

I think 16:44 said it really well. Great teachers, but there’s no culture of teachers and advisors being personally invested in each student and his or her success. It’s a shame, really.

[Anonymous]

OP here.
Thanks for all your thoughts!

Verdict is in and my son is choosing STA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
Thanks for all your thoughts!

Verdict is in and my son is choosing STA.

Congratulations and welcome!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
Thanks for all your thoughts!

Verdict is in and my son is choosing STA.

Congrats! Were any of the opinions here particularly helpful in making the decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have children at both.

My daughter attends Sidwell, boys attend STA.

Admin at STA is night and day stronger than at Sidwell. Sidwell's HOS is very focused on prestige and influence, and gives preferential treatment to the well-connected. So much for Quaker values.

STA boys are encouraged to be supportive of one another, character education is integrated into the curriculum, chapel services where boys lead and speak encourage them to think about values. Sidwell does character education, too, but it seems more focused on wokeness.

Both schools have bright, intense students. Both are high pressure, but STA has more moderating elements. Faculty are very engaged and caring at STA; they are invested in the success of every student. Sidwell teachers on the whole seem more detached. At Sidwell if a child needs help, it's their job to reach out to the teachers. At STA if a child needs help, the teacher might reach out to the child.

Sidwell students are supportive but they almost seem to glorify suffering and try to outdo each other in all-nighters and other all-out efforts to achieve. STA has highly competitive kids, too, but you're not supposed to show the sweat. The boys are expected to be self-deprecating about achievements and to help others. Bragging about grades is a no-no. Everyone excels in something and they are encouraged to appreciate each others' strengths.

There are some very conservative families at STA. There are some very woke families at Sidwell. The conservative families at STA are quiet about it. The woke families at Sidwell are very loud about it.

Both communities have many normal people who are welcoming. On the whole, politics and wokeness is less in-your-face at STA, because there's an effort to build community across political beliefs, which is not as true at Sidwell. There is more diversity of thought at STA, because there are few conservative families at Sidwell. I'm not sure how comfortable they are at STA either, as the majority of the school despite rumors to the contrary skews moderate and liberal. However, there is a careful restraint at STA around politics, with the exception of a few people on both sides.

College counseling is 1000X better at STA. Read some of the past threads on the DCUM issues with college counseling at Sidwell. It would never have been allowed to deteriorate to that extent at STA, because the school is better managed and the morale among faculty/admin is higher. I've heard STA teachers are the best paid among private schools in the DC area. Most of the teachers seem genuinely happy and that's reflected in their work with the students.

Both schools are excellent schools. As a parent I'm happier with STA. IMO it's better in terms of overall student experience, parent community, and administrative stability and strength. If you send your child to Sidwell, hire a private admissions counselor as soon as your child enters 9th grade.

Why didn’t you send your daughter to NCS? Several friends have children at both schools and they are quite happy with NCS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have children at both.

My daughter attends Sidwell, boys attend STA.

Admin at STA is night and day stronger than at Sidwell. Sidwell's HOS is very focused on prestige and influence, and gives preferential treatment to the well-connected. So much for Quaker values.

STA boys are encouraged to be supportive of one another, character education is integrated into the curriculum, chapel services where boys lead and speak encourage them to think about values. Sidwell does character education, too, but it seems more focused on wokeness.

Both schools have bright, intense students. Both are high pressure, but STA has more moderating elements. Faculty are very engaged and caring at STA; they are invested in the success of every student. Sidwell teachers on the whole seem more detached. At Sidwell if a child needs help, it's their job to reach out to the teachers. At STA if a child needs help, the teacher might reach out to the child.

Sidwell students are supportive but they almost seem to glorify suffering and try to outdo each other in all-nighters and other all-out efforts to achieve. STA has highly competitive kids, too, but you're not supposed to show the sweat. The boys are expected to be self-deprecating about achievements and to help others. Bragging about grades is a no-no. Everyone excels in something and they are encouraged to appreciate each others' strengths.

There are some very conservative families at STA. There are some very woke families at Sidwell. The conservative families at STA are quiet about it. The woke families at Sidwell are very loud about it.

Both communities have many normal people who are welcoming. On the whole, politics and wokeness is less in-your-face at STA, because there's an effort to build community across political beliefs, which is not as true at Sidwell. There is more diversity of thought at STA, because there are few conservative families at Sidwell. I'm not sure how comfortable they are at STA either, as the majority of the school despite rumors to the contrary skews moderate and liberal. However, there is a careful restraint at STA around politics, with the exception of a few people on both sides.

College counseling is 1000X better at STA. Read some of the past threads on the DCUM issues with college counseling at Sidwell. It would never have been allowed to deteriorate to that extent at STA, because the school is better managed and the morale among faculty/admin is higher. I've heard STA teachers are the best paid among private schools in the DC area. Most of the teachers seem genuinely happy and that's reflected in their work with the students.

Both schools are excellent schools. As a parent I'm happier with STA. IMO it's better in terms of overall student experience, parent community, and administrative stability and strength. If you send your child to Sidwell, hire a private admissions counselor as soon as your child enters 9th grade.

I have to address the PP. I am a Sidwell parent of children in upper and lower school. I am also the aunt of 2 young AA males at STA. The PP keeps mentioning "wokeness" in a negative light versus why it's been long overdue in both schools. My two nephews at STA have silently suffered over the years due to an administration that chose not to directly address the behaviors and elites culture at the school. Comments such as "most minorities live in the ghetto or you are only here because you play basketball" and etc went on unchecked because of these were the children of the who's who of DC. I won't even discuss the daily country club hang out routine. This is not to say Sidwell has not had its fair share of issues, but they are choosing not to ignore or tolerate these issues. I see Sidwell making sure children are civically engaged and are well educated on social issues. They do not impose a position, but allow for a forum to discuss and educate.

Both schools are academically rigorous and offer great programming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have children at both.

My daughter attends Sidwell, boys attend STA.

Admin at STA is night and day stronger than at Sidwell. Sidwell's HOS is very focused on prestige and influence, and gives preferential treatment to the well-connected. So much for Quaker values.

STA boys are encouraged to be supportive of one another, character education is integrated into the curriculum, chapel services where boys lead and speak encourage them to think about values. Sidwell does character education, too, but it seems more focused on wokeness.

Both schools have bright, intense students. Both are high pressure, but STA has more moderating elements. Faculty are very engaged and caring at STA; they are invested in the success of every student. Sidwell teachers on the whole seem more detached. At Sidwell if a child needs help, it's their job to reach out to the teachers. At STA if a child needs help, the teacher might reach out to the child.

Sidwell students are supportive but they almost seem to glorify suffering and try to outdo each other in all-nighters and other all-out efforts to achieve. STA has highly competitive kids, too, but you're not supposed to show the sweat. The boys are expected to be self-deprecating about achievements and to help others. Bragging about grades is a no-no. Everyone excels in something and they are encouraged to appreciate each others' strengths.

There are some very conservative families at STA. There are some very woke families at Sidwell. The conservative families at STA are quiet about it. The woke families at Sidwell are very loud about it.

Both communities have many normal people who are welcoming. On the whole, politics and wokeness is less in-your-face at STA, because there's an effort to build community across political beliefs, which is not as true at Sidwell. There is more diversity of thought at STA, because there are few conservative families at Sidwell. I'm not sure how comfortable they are at STA either, as the majority of the school despite rumors to the contrary skews moderate and liberal. However, there is a careful restraint at STA around politics, with the exception of a few people on both sides.

College counseling is 1000X better at STA. Read some of the past threads on the DCUM issues with college counseling at Sidwell. It would never have been allowed to deteriorate to that extent at STA, because the school is better managed and the morale among faculty/admin is higher. I've heard STA teachers are the best paid among private schools in the DC area. Most of the teachers seem genuinely happy and that's reflected in their work with the students.

Both schools are excellent schools. As a parent I'm happier with STA. IMO it's better in terms of overall student experience, parent community, and administrative stability and strength. If you send your child to Sidwell, hire a private admissions counselor as soon as your child enters 9th grade.

This is incorrect. The conservative families at STA are not quiet about it. There’s no way you’re a parent at STA currently otherwise you would be fully aware that several of the classes have many families that still support Trump. Yes we are friends with several and they openly support Trump and are openly against BLM. Yes openly. Anyone who is currently at the school can attest to this. Maybe not in the class of your boys but in other grades for sure. STA is a great school but it’s not fair to op to lie about the school. It is very conservative and has many families in the same social circles that tend to be quite exclusive to other families. The HOS and admin may be progressive but many families are not.

Is the vocal Trump supporting element present in the class of 2025?

I have heard about it in some other grades.

How is the class of 2025?

Oh for Pete's sake. Of course there are. There are Trump supporters in every school, probably every class - is that a problem for you PP? You do know that Trump got something like 20% of the vote in DC, right? Almost all of that support came from NW DC. Don't act so appalled.

Where did you get those facts? Breibert or Hannity? Biden received over 90 percent of the vote in DC and Trump less than 6%.

OK, point taken, I was just throwing out what sounded like a small number. But point remains - wouldn't you assume that the majority of that 6% came from NW DC, where these schools are located and students tend to live?

No, SE - Capitol Hill