Does the Lee in W & L ruin it?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh who cares. Most great architecture in history was built with slave labor of some sort. Should we tear it all down. We’ve all lost our minds. Focus on treating people in your real life fairly and kindly instead of on divisive woke-ism.


Well, many people do care. It’s not that the Lee in the name. It’s the Grand Old South atmosphere that refuses to acknowledge they lost the War of Northern Aggression. The school is proud of its heritage, and Lee’s presidency and the gravesite and make no effort to put in context. Which is fine. It’s private. It’s a free country. Spend your money and send your kid there. But many people are not okay with the harkening back to the confederacy aspects of the school and take real issue with that southern white mentality. It’s says something about the kid who chooses to attend. You’re right. It’s a selective school. I’m sure every kid there had other options. They chose W&L, which is so frat boy southern.

People are judged by the choices they make and the college they attend. If so many kids weren’t chasing that, why would this Board exist? And most W&L grads had choices. They made theirs. Liberty grads made theirs. Harvard grads made theirs. Smith grads made theirs. Etc And every grad school and future employer will use that as a proxy. It might not be fair. But, I encourage my kid to make theirs and attend a college they feel proud of. You should to. If it’s W&L, I’m sure you have your reasons and you don’t need to defend them. Unless, you think you do?


I think you might be a bit of a simpleton. Employers and graduate schools etc absolutely do NOT think in this way. At all.


Are you trying to convince me. Or yourself? Because if what you are saying is that no grad school or employer ever looked at the college you attended and made assumptions based on that, you’re the simpleton. Of course they do. It’s why people chase Ivy’s. But only the good ones, because Cornell. Alt right employers judge Oberlin grads and alt left ones judge Liberty and there are shades in between.

If you think no one judges W&L, multiple people on this thread have indicated otherwise.


Oh, I realize insecure stay at home mommies are judgmental. That’s practically in their job description. But to the degree an employer or grad school is judgmental it’s limited to the perceived academic rigor of a school and/or its programs. Not related to whether or not a school is fratty, southern, hippyish, crunchy or other such intangibles. I mean, we got an earful during the Kavanaugh hearings about how fratty Yale is but its graduates still do just fine.



Please. I am an employer (actually we run several businesses). I never evaluate hires based on dissecting the name of their college! I look for people with the appropriate skills, work ethic, etc . . . I’m definitely not evaluating candidates based on perceived woke-ism. Anyway, my neighborhood is full of the wokest woke, yard signs everywhere. Of course, why did they move to the neighborhood? Because heaven forbid larla actually attend school with black or brown children. Such divisive hypocrisy. You woke loons need to make sure you are treating the people in your daily life well - try being kind to the Whole Foods cashier- before getting on your smug little soap box and requiring that pretty much everything be renamed.


Um. Whatever are you prattling on about?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:W&M is far superior to W&L. Not even close


W&M gave an emeritus faculty position to the head of the Generals Redoubters. He’s on their campus in their business school regularly. He’s not a W&M alum. He’s a W&L alum. And W&L hasn’t given him anything since he graduated.

Far superior? Not likely.


I’ve seen some lame arguments but yours is a doozy. Congrats.
Anonymous
My husband went to W&L and loved it but he said the hazing was horrifying and he wouldn’t want that for his son. (I know this happens at many schools.)
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh who cares. Most great architecture in history was built with slave labor of some sort. Should we tear it all down. We’ve all lost our minds. Focus on treating people in your real life fairly and kindly instead of on divisive woke-ism.


Well, many people do care. It’s not that the Lee in the name. It’s the Grand Old South atmosphere that refuses to acknowledge they lost the War of Northern Aggression. The school is proud of its heritage, and Lee’s presidency and the gravesite and make no effort to put in context. Which is fine. It’s private. It’s a free country. Spend your money and send your kid there. But many people are not okay with the harkening back to the confederacy aspects of the school and take real issue with that southern white mentality. It’s says something about the kid who chooses to attend. You’re right. It’s a selective school. I’m sure every kid there had other options. They chose W&L, which is so frat boy southern.

People are judged by the choices they make and the college they attend. If so many kids weren’t chasing that, why would this Board exist? And most W&L grads had choices. They made theirs. Liberty grads made theirs. Harvard grads made theirs. Smith grads made theirs. Etc And every grad school and future employer will use that as a proxy. It might not be fair. But, I encourage my kid to make theirs and attend a college they feel proud of. You should to. If it’s W&L, I’m sure you have your reasons and you don’t need to defend them. Unless, you think you do?


I think you might be a bit of a simpleton. Employers and graduate schools etc absolutely do NOT think in this way. At all.


Are you trying to convince me. Or yourself? Because if what you are saying is that no grad school or employer ever looked at the college you attended and made assumptions based on that, you’re the simpleton. Of course they do. It’s why people chase Ivy’s. But only the good ones, because Cornell. Alt right employers judge Oberlin grads and alt left ones judge Liberty and there are shades in between.

If you think no one judges W&L, multiple people on this thread have indicated otherwise.


Oh, I realize insecure stay at home mommies are judgmental. That’s practically in their job description. But to the degree an employer or grad school is judgmental it’s limited to the perceived academic rigor of a school and/or its programs. Not related to whether or not a school is fratty, southern, hippyish, crunchy or other such intangibles. I mean, we got an earful during the Kavanaugh hearings about how fratty Yale is but its graduates still do just fine.



Yeah. In 2021, businesses hire people with the work well in diverse teams and with a diverse clientele. W&L might be all Southern white frat boys, but the workforce increasingly is not. And someone who cannot work with any other races or religion, internationally or even white people from most of the country is a huge liability. Potentially a legal liability. Definitely a headache I do not need. I’m managing a team from Belarus right now (hello 7am team meetings!). And the new Zoom world is just accelerating this trend. I would never hire someone who thought the world stopped and started in the grand old south. What use are they to me when the client is in Asia?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh who cares. Most great architecture in history was built with slave labor of some sort. Should we tear it all down. We’ve all lost our minds. Focus on treating people in your real life fairly and kindly instead of on divisive woke-ism.


Well, many people do care. It’s not that the Lee in the name. It’s the Grand Old South atmosphere that refuses to acknowledge they lost the War of Northern Aggression. The school is proud of its heritage, and Lee’s presidency and the gravesite and make no effort to put in context. Which is fine. It’s private. It’s a free country. Spend your money and send your kid there. But many people are not okay with the harkening back to the confederacy aspects of the school and take real issue with that southern white mentality. It’s says something about the kid who chooses to attend. You’re right. It’s a selective school. I’m sure every kid there had other options. They chose W&L, which is so frat boy southern.

People are judged by the choices they make and the college they attend. If so many kids weren’t chasing that, why would this Board exist? And most W&L grads had choices. They made theirs. Liberty grads made theirs. Harvard grads made theirs. Smith grads made theirs. Etc And every grad school and future employer will use that as a proxy. It might not be fair. But, I encourage my kid to make theirs and attend a college they feel proud of. You should to. If it’s W&L, I’m sure you have your reasons and you don’t need to defend them. Unless, you think you do?


The school is dealing with its heritage and continues to make changes (albeit late). Removing Lee’s name is even on the table. You don’t know that, which is understandable, but it doesn’t stop you from acting like an expert. That’s DCUM though.

Second paragraph is laughably stupid. W&L grads are very successful. The school ranks very highly by measures that attempt to capture value addition as demonstrable by income. The Economist had the school at number one. According to your theory they should be ranked near the bottom.


No I just disagree with the economists rankings. I think colleges are where our kids take their first steps as adults and make independent decisions that will shape the rest of their lives. And thus what I judge to be much more important than ROI, and in fact priceless, is intellectual growth and growth as a human being who makes good decisions and has good values. And for that, as well as their overall happiness, their peers matter. See, you can tell me the value of a W & L education. And I can tell you I see a net negative ROI. Strong sell.

And BTW, my kids attend one of the SLACs you pop off popular assumptions about, and the popular assumptions are pretty much on target. Derisive and nasty phrasing. But not fundamentally wrong. And I’m fine with that. Because I find it priceless.

If you didn’t know there’s some truth there, it would get under your skin. But there is. So it does.

I can tell you people with any sense don’t judge 50 year old by what their college in 2021, but they look at their life. So if it’s you’re alma mater, tell them you are restricting donations until they deal with the name and move on. 1985 and 2021 are not the same thing. Now, if you’re kid is currently there, it tells me something about you and your parenting. And it isn’t that flattering.

But rather than shrug and say what do I care about what some keyboard warrior says about me and moving on, you’re going to go full Trump keep swinging. Which might be musing if it hadn’t good so old the last few years. I hire people. That’s my opinion of 2021 grads. So someone thinks it.

You keep swinging. I’m out. It’s late. And I just don’t care about W&L enough to do this any more.

Oh, and the thing about raping people. It is very serious. And many colleges need to take it much more seriously than they do. It isn’t just some man’s reputation being destroyed, which devalues the long term ROI, which is the huge issue for you with rape culture. And he said it because he attended a W&L peer school, very strong on the cross admits list, then and now. And he was horrified. He’s seen the women whose lives were shattered by that culture and how they were treated and does not want our son or daughter anywhere near it. My kid passed because she has common sense.


Ok, people, the thread is over. PP DISAGREES with a ranking. And her kid’s fear of being raped is the decisive analysis!



You know, defending a rape culture, real or perceived is not a good look. In fact, it’s just ugly.
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